Magic and occultism

[BaguaKicksAss]

So what did you read that made you conclude the magic and occultism are bull? What is the connection between those two things and Freemasonry? Why did you bring up George Bush? And why do you think magic and occultism are connected to telekinesis?

 

UFA

 

Prob something from Llewelynn

[IntuitiveWanderer]

I know magic and occultism are connected to telekinesis because I know that the Rosicrucians tell people that they can learn telekinesis and psychic abilities at the highest levels.

 

http://www.rosicrucian.org/about/mastery/mastery06home.html

 

Eighth Temple Degree

The Eighth Temple Degree explores in depth the theme of immortality—the mysteries of birth and death, reincarnation and karma, and the evolution of the soul personality. Topics include:

• Universal Soul and the Human Soul
• Divine Consciousness and Self Consciousness
• Spiritual Evolution of Humans
• Mastery of Karma
• Reincarnation of the Soul
• Memory of Past Incarnations
• The Mystery of Birth and Death
• Help to the Dying, Before and After Death

Ninth Temple Degree

If you have conscientiously studied and practiced the exercises and experiments of the earlier Degrees, these techniques will by now have become second nature, and you'll be well prepared to successfully undertake the advanced experiments of the Ninth Degree. This Degree gives you the opportunity to utilize the highest metaphysical powers in practical ways to affect positive conditions in your environment and your life in accordance with the greatest good. Topics include:

• Macrocosm and Microcosm
• The Four Principles: Earth, Water, Air and Fire
• Symbols: Cross, Triangle, Square, Circle, and Rose-Cross
• Mental Alchemy
• Telepathy, Telekinesis, Vibroturgy, and Radiesthesia
• Cosmic Protection, Mystical Regeneration
• Attunement with Cosmic Consciousness

 

HAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

 

 

...no, but seriously...I may just be wrong

Edited December 14, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[IntuitiveWanderer]

Nah, just modern ceremonial magick or wicca (though wicca has some other roots as well; I don't mean the crap book wicca), but not the many many other traditional paths. Also freemasonry is also Western based, there are so many magic groups and so much magic out there which are very much not western based nor influenced (thank the gods! lol)

 

Well yeah. Most of it they got from the hindus and taoists and tibetans, although I dont know how much of it is genuine and how much of it is made up because even Hinduism in its actual form is very different from its original (some scholars say that Hinduism began in the 20th century)

 

Ultimately the whole magic deal is based on exactly the same dualistic system of storytelling as the monotheistic dictatorships. The wizards are very smart, they have secret knowledge and no worries theyre perfectly at peace but they continued to struggle throught the ages and they need your support. and then you ask: why do they try so hard if it doesn't matter? and then they start making up stuff about dragons and pneumatic babes.

Edited December 14, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[IntuitiveWanderer]

Man, if I were a wizard, I would go live in a hut in Siberia in the middle of nowhere, with a tribe of silent sincere human beings that don't take crap from none and will stab you if you start being too stupid. As a matter of fact, that is where I would live if I ever could make the choice of living somewhere else than I do.

 

There is no reason to learn magic and shwitz. I bet the peasants from 1000 years ago were 100 times happier and freer than the average consumer nowadays. We don't need magic, we need reality. The f***ing Tao man...

Edited December 14, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[BaguaKicksAss]

Well yeah. Most of it they got from the hindus and taoists and tibetans, although I dont know how much of it is genuine and how much of it is made up because even Hinduism in its actual form is very different from its original (some scholars say that Hinduism began in the 20th century)

 

Ultimately the whole magic deal is based on exactly the same dualistic system of storytelling as the monotheistic dictatorships. The wizards are very smart, they have secret knowledge and no worries theyre perfectly at peace but they continued to struggle throught the ages and they need your support. and then you ask: why do they try so hard if it doesn't matter? and then they start making up stuff about dragons and pneumatic babes.

 

This is still based on paths learned and taught from books though. You skipped over the African Traditional Religious magical paths too... Nah, just the newage crap is loosely based on modern Hinduism. PS Amorc's website isn't the best source about magic .

[BaguaKicksAss]

Man, if I were a wizard, I would go live in a hut in Siberia in the middle of nowhere, with a tribe of silent sincere human beings that don't take crap from none and will stab you if you start being too stupid. As a matter of fact, that is where I would live if I ever could make the choice of living somewhere else than I do.

 

There is no reason to learn magic and shwitz. I bet the peasants from 1000 years ago were 100 times happier and freer than the average consumer nowadays. We don't need magic, we need reality. The f***ing Tao man...

 

If that is the case, how come you don't start planning, and saving up to have the life you most want? Well also some networking to find the silent and sincere folks.... Half of magic is first figuring out wtf you want (most people have no idea what they really want) then getting to work on both the magical as well as physical plane.

 

Don't need to be a wizard to pull off the hut thing though.

Edited December 14, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[IntuitiveWanderer]

This is still based on paths learned and taught from books though. You skipped over the African Traditional Religious magical paths too... Nah, just the newage crap is loosely based on modern Hinduism. PS Amorc's website isn't the best source about magic .

 

So you are saying that magic is real? Magic as in the supposed ability to manipulate massive ammounts of "external" energy through the control of thought patterns and attention?

 

It seems incredible considering that my person can't even hold my pee for longer than a few hours (maybe) or stop my heart from beating. Heck, my person can't even exist singularly!! BLA BLA

 

Here is a good definition of magic:

 

 

Edited December 14, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[IntuitiveWanderer]

If you can logically prove to me that there is an objective reality then I might be persuaded.

[BaguaKicksAss]

If you can logically prove to me that there is an objective reality then I might be persuaded.

 

Why on earth would anyone care to persuade you???? I think that sort of thing is more for major religions and such. What others believe and experience isn't all that important, as long as they are happy and such. Most of my answers were based on the thought that perhaps you were curious about such practices for some reason.

[BaguaKicksAss]

So you are saying that magic is real? Magic as in the supposed ability to manipulate massive ammounts of "external" energy through the control of thought patterns and attention?

 

It seems incredible considering that my person can't even hold my pee for longer than a few hours (maybe) or stop my heart from beating. Heck, my person can't even exist singularly!! BLA BLA

 

Here is a good definition of magic:

 

 

 

Again, you have been reading far to many books. Really shitty books . Perhaps start a thread about what books folks would recommend on magic. (since you would likely annoy an in person group/teacher .

[IntuitiveWanderer]

Again, you have been reading far to many books. Really shitty books . Perhaps start a thread about what books folks would recommend on magic. (since you would likely annoy an in person group/teacher .

 

Then we will have to agree to disagree.

 

P.s. although I do agree that Alan Moore is a s***y source of information. He's an actor and that was a clip from his movie about himself.

Edited December 14, 2014 by IntuitiveWanderer

[Nungali]

Man, if I were a wizard, I would go live in a hut in Siberia in the middle of nowhere, with a tribe of silent sincere human beings that don't take crap from none and will stab you if you start being too stupid. As a matter of fact, that is where I would live if I ever could make the choice of living somewhere else than I do.

 

There is no reason to learn magic and shwitz. I bet the peasants from 1000 years ago were 100 times happier and freer than the average consumer nowadays. We don't need magic, we need reality. The f***ing Tao man...

 

 

Why go all the way there ... I will happily stab you for being stupid right here ...

 

But seriously, I got a great LOL from that ... thanks!

[Nungali]

I was just thinking about epistemology.

 

How much of what we commonly call "reality" is really real? and how much is it just conceptual? and what is the difference?

 

I already wrote about that here somewhere (I guess you will have to read through all my old posts

 

 

It was about how anthropologists here use three terms to describe 'reality' when dealing with certain Australian Aboriginal mythic motifs ; the real, the really real ... and the really really real .

 

So if normal everyday modern western Cartesian Dualism confuses you ... wait until you have a converse with one of these guys !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If reality is that which exists then all that exists is this.

 

strange...because you can't just deny everything else that is probable to be there...but there is in fact no there

 

In fact what we call the same as it was is in fact not the same, in fact nothing is the same as it was when I started writting this sentence Panta Rhei

 

....Where does I begin and end??? Am I the body? but I can only control a few muscles and a few cogntive functions

 

Thats up to your own focus ... look close enough and the boundary is fuzzy ... you are more space than stuff ... cosmic rays and particles pass through the spaces of you all the time. HOw far does your imagination 'reach out' ... is that part of you ?

 

It would be incorect to limit my self to the body just because of the apearance of disconuity. It would be outright ignorant.

 

My organism is NOT a closed system, it is a dynamic system so that I am either the few muscle twitches and few cognitive functions or the universe. And this is a false dichotomy between two ideas that do not in fact exist. I am time and space.

 

 

close ... dont forget the all important motion

 

 

 

What Kant called imperative ideas or something like that, are in fact all that exists, ultimately space is time, and the only thing which exists is time but if time is infinite then it already happened forever.

 

strange

 

 

motion

[Nungali]

If that is the case, how come you don't start planning, and saving up to have the life you most want? Well also some networking to find the silent and sincere folks.... Half of magic is first figuring out wtf you want (most people have no idea what they really want) then getting to work on both the magical as well as physical plane.

 

Don't need to be a wizard to pull off the hut thing though.

 

He dont need to be a wizard to pull off anything .... just keep pulling ... it will come off eventually .

Edited December 15, 2014 by Nungali

[Nungali]

actually ... a dose of this wouldnt hurt ... have a sniff

 

 

[IntuitiveWanderer]

Just point me to the wall which I need to run against in order to reach Hoghwarts, and I will figure it all out from that point.

[Nungali]

I think you have fiction mixed up with your confusion about realities ... maybe that's part of the problem too ?

 

Isnt reality weird enough without adding fiction? That above 'spell' is about getting a head back .... (and other body parts) ... they killed him once ... almost ... but he vanished from jail. To really kill a sorcerer, you have to chop his head off and place it over water that the headless body cant cross to get the head back. So they took his head to England, just to make sure.

 

Now we want the head back ..... its in the Queens black magic storeroom ... but

 

 

" In 2010 Prince William announced he would return Pemulwuy's skull to his Aboriginal relatives " ( "If we could only find where we put the damn thing ! ")

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pemulwuy

Edited December 15, 2014 by Nungali

[IntuitiveWanderer]

I think you have fiction mixed up with your confusion about realities ... maybe that's part of the problem too ?

 

Isnt reality weird enough without adding fiction? That above 'spell' is about getting a head back .... (and other body parts) ... they killed him once ... almost ... but he vanished from jail. To really kill a sorcerer, you have to chop his head off and place it over water that the headless body cant cross to get the head back. So they took his head to England, just to make sure.

 

Now we want the head back ..... its in the Queens black magic storeroom ... but

 

 

" In 2010 Prince William announced he would return Pemulwuy's skull to his Aboriginal relatives " ( "If we could only find where we put the damn thing ! ")

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pemulwuy

 

Ok man....if you say so. Although it seems quite uncanny...

[Nungali]

Uncanny in that

 

a) they took the head

 

b ) it is wanted back

 

c) 'reality' is uncanny

 

d) all of the above

 

?

Edited December 16, 2014 by Nungali

[closrapexa]

I think part of the "problem" with Western occult is, indeed, fiction and terminology. I am by no means an expert but from my (cursory) studies I haven't found real, fundamental differences between Western and Eastern "philosophies" except in what they're called. The Western initiatory system is structured to allow the practitioner to achieve highly concentrated meditative states that bear a striking similarity (at least in theory, I of course have not achieved them) to yogis, shamans and the like. By assimilating different ideas that combine into a cohesive whole one is able to arrive at a progressively pure idea, at unity of thought and purpose and action. The terminology may in fact speak of turning lead into gold (and Abramelin speaks of enticing young ladies) but I think that anyone who physically tries to do that is somewhat delusional. It is spiritual lead and spiritual gold that occultism deals with. Obviously, even Jesus didn't turn water into wine, it is a not-so-veiled metaphor for an alchemical wedding concealed beneath a story of an actual wedding. Same thing with Moses and his striking of his rock, and his ultimate failure in crossing the Jordan.

 

 

Probably the whole Hogwarts things came out things occultists and magicians were accused of, before being burned at the stake. No "proof" is necessary or even possible except by experience.

Edited January 9, 2015 by closrapexa

[FraterUFA]

 

Edited July 10, 2015 by FraterUFA

[closrapexa]

Good questions I don't know the answers to. However, if someone is looking for proof of flying broomsticks, can you provide them with that?

[FraterUFA]

Good questions I don't know the answers to. However, if someone is looking for proof of flying broomsticks, can you provide them with that?

 

What conditions do you think would need to exist in order for you to be shown proof of such a thing?

 

Clearly, if a physical Philosopher's Stone exists, anyone known to be in possession of it would be in great danger.

 

UFA

[Nungali]

Oh - oh ... I am in danger ? I assure you the technology is safe if used wisely (said the nuclear technician ... and me ) the'proper' transmutation should not leave undesirable side effects.

 

If 'spiritual transformation' is one of the side effects , cannot one 'stone' be just 'one of' the stones ?

 

But the whole topic interests me ; what is wholly of the western tradition and not an eastern import ? (Aside from indigenous traditions and the 'Greek influence' ).

 

Most seems centred in things associated with Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor (itself perhaps derived from the German R+C Order - as the G.D. may have been) - Blavatsky's 'pre-India' period, people like Paschal Beverly Randolph, etc. which seems to have gained its 'western tantra' from Sabbatianism but went through a stage of the 'Order of Asiatic Brethren' - itself a reference back to 'Asia' . But perhaps its roots were in mystical ecstatic Judaism - if the Sabbatianism link is considered valid ?

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Clearly, if a physical Philosopher's Stone exists, anyone known to be in possession of it would be in great danger.

 

UFA

 

 

Oh - oh ... I am in danger ?

 

I suspect he means in danger from people who wanted the secret and didn't care how they got it, like Edward Kelly or Alexander Seton were in danger from an Emperor and an Elector respectively, though originally both were received with honors, they were imprisoned for not cooperating.