What are the Principles in the TTC...?

[ChiDragon]

Many people were talking about the cultivation of Tao's principles by reading the TTC. What are the principles in the TTC that one would like to be cultivated.....??? Is there anyone would like to list them one by one or chapter to chapter to share your idea with us....???

Edited December 14, 2014 by ChiDragon

[nestentrie]

Is this a test? I don't think I brought my proper coloured pencils.

Edited December 15, 2014 by nestentrie

[Marblehead]

To know when one has enough.

[Michael Sternbach]

No small task, but interesting. I'm willing to have a go at it.

 

Chapter 1 (James Legge translation)

 

The Tao that can be trodden is not the enduring and unchanging Tao. The name that can be named is not the enduring and unchanging name.

 

Principle for cultivation: Formlessness

 

The mind that is unfettered by preconceptions, fear, anger, impatience, guilt etc. It can therefore act and react in inspired ways - appropriately, intuitively, spontaneously.

 

Always without desire we must be found,

If its deep mystery we would sound;

But if desire always within us be,

Its outer fringe is all that we shall see.

 

Principle for cultivation: Contentment

 

Being at peace. Personally, I don't think it's desirable (or even possible) to be entirely without desire (pun intended). So I take it as being without nagging desire which is different from a calm and confident focus on what one wants or needs to achieve.

 

Resonates with Formlessness.

 

Under these two aspects, it is really the same; but as development takes place, it receives the different names. Together we call them the Mystery. Where the mystery is the deepest it is the gate of all that is subtle and wonderful.

 

Principle for cultivation: Contemplation

 

Contemplating Wu chi. Accordingly, taking a balanced and buoyant position between internal and external polarities.

[Michael Sternbach]

Regarding Contentment, I would like to add that it's probably true that being literally as desireless as it gets is more likely to lead to contentment for one who is living in a poor place. Another way to contentment is satisfaction of desire in a balanced way. As also through your feelings and desires the Universe speaks to and through you.

 

Aristotle's Sage is Wise, Healthy and Wealthy. Epicurus, Tantrists, Aleister Crowley and Jane Roberts/Seth would all have agreed with Aristotle on this.

 

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Edit: Desires can even sometimes be used to guide you away from detrimental behaviour, if you get to desire something else more than that which is destructive to yourself or others.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Michael Sternbach

[Marblehead]

Yes Michael, peace and contentment are a wonderful combination, each supporting the other. Regardless of philosophy, I think most people would opt for this.

 

Yes, desires normally get in the way for gaining peace and contentment. Perhaps your edit comment is valid, I haven't really thought about that.

 

 

Another principle, IMO, is to observe the processes of nature and understand the process of cause and effect.

[Michael Sternbach]

Chapter 2 (James Legge translation)

 

All in the world know the beauty of the beautiful, and in doing this they have (the idea of) what ugliness is; they all know the skill of the beautiful, and in doing this (they have the idea of) what the want of skill is.

 

Principle for cultivation: Non-evaluation

 

Seeing things in their suchness. The polarizing mind ever busy to attach labels to everything it perceives (within and without itself) keeps itself away from perceiving things simply the way they are. The wise knows, however, that ideas like "beautiful" and "ugly" are telling more about the beholding entity than about a thing as such. Cultivating non-evaluation leads to a number of useful traits such as:

• Avoiding to be led astray by outward appearances.
• Being more patient and understanding with ourselves and others.
• Being at peace and happy under circumstances a more judgemental person cannot cope with.

(As in chapter 1, I skip over parts that I don't see as pertaining to cultivation directly.)

 

Therefore the sage manages affairs without doing anything...

 

Principle for cultivation: Non-action

 

In most fundamental terms, this means that the ego is not trying to get a handle on something - which would tend to impede the natural flow of things. This kind of non-action can result in:

• Action that is spontaneous and in harmony with the Dao ("acting without acting").
• Opting literally not to act but let a situation unfold and take its own course - thus allowing a situation to eventually find balance all by itself.

...and conveys his instructions without the use of speech.

 

Principle for cultivation: Silent instructing

 

Avoiding long wound explanations and protractions. Conveying clarity of intent to others to a degree that little or no words are needed.

 

This also brings to mind the typical Eastern way of teaching: The instructor simply demonstrates a certain thing, the student tries to imitate it to the best of their ability - over and over.

 

I will treat the rest of chapter 2 later, due to its relative length.

[ChiDragon]

 

Principle for cultivation: Non-action

 

In most fundamental terms, this means that the ego is not trying to get a handle on something - which would tend to impede the natural flow of things. This kind of non-action can result in:

• Action that is spontaneous and in harmony with the Dao ("acting without acting").
• Opting literally not to act but let a situation unfold and take its own course - thus allowing a situation to eventually find balance all by itself.

 

Yes, I would like to keep its original term as Wu Wei(無為).

 

".....which would tend to impede the natural flow of things. This kind of non-action can result in:....."

 

I've found the keyword "impede" which is so characteristic to the concept of Wu Wei.

Wu Wei is do nothing to interfere(impede) the course of Nature.

 

BTW Letting the baby drown in the river is not the course of Nature is because the baby does not belong in the river to be drowned.

 

 

PS....

Let Nature take its course is the concept of Wu Wei.

Take no action to interfere with the course of Nature is the philosophy of Lao Zi which he called Wu Wei.

Edited December 19, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

 

BTW Letting the baby drown in the river is not the course of Nature is because the baby does not belong in the river to be drowned.

 

Hehehe. You just won't let me have the last word on that, will you?

 

I was just messing with you anyhow.

[nestentrie]

Ok. My serious answer to this? What does one need to be known for? What would one have to commit to to secure that renown? And if renown can't be caught, where would one stop before the illness of this drive interferes? What are the pleasures we could conscionably renounce (if at all we could) to prevent ill consequences?

 

To this point, what would one not do to remain amiciable with natural good order so that we could enjoy peace of mind? Or, what order may we prefer other than the natural (and is it plausible to assume this inferred order is higher than tao)?

 

And finally, how would we act knowing that agency is empty and that Tao is indifferent to the wants of personal recognition?

 

Most people are all for the good, and yet step over the good to be known (above others) as the one who kept the good. Simply live with the good, and keep the honour that knows not to judge you for doing good (Tao).

Edited December 20, 2014 by nestentrie

[ChiDragon]

nestentrie....
I am not able to respond to your series of questions. Can you be a little more specific and narrow it down with an example....??? So, we can go from there.

[ChiDragon]

Hehehe. You just won't let me have the last word on that, will you?

 

I will, only and only if, you are giving your last word......

[woodcarver]

"Fuck it"

 

-lao tzu

[dawei]

"Fuck it"

 

-lao tzu

 

"Fuck"

 

- Zhuangzi

[Marblehead]

Everything matters but nothing matters.

[Michael Sternbach]

You guys are WAY off topic.

[Marblehead]

You guys are WAY off topic.

Really? Hehehe.

[woodcarver]

 

You guys are WAY off topic.

Oh here we go with the mechanization, man

[ChiDragon]

Oh here we go with the mechanization, man

 

And you are not......???

[Marblehead]

 

And you are not......???

Is that a principle?

[ChiDragon]

Is that a principle?

It is a process in the cultivation of the principle.

[woodcarver]

Put on a Hawaiian shirt and then try to argue with me.

 

Hawaiian shirts should be code for taoism in north america.

Edited December 22, 2014 by woodcarver

[ChiDragon]

Put on a Hawaiian shirt and then try to argue with me.

 

Hawaiian shirts should be code for taoism in north america.

hmmmm...I didn't know putting on a Hawaiian shirt will make one more arguable. Perhaps, one should put on a Taoist robe even better. Don't you think...???

[woodcarver]

I can't wear a taoist robe to the grocery store

[dawei]

"Fuck it"

 

-lao tzu

 

"Fuck"

 

- Zhuangzi

 

The OP did "not anticipate this kind of comment from an administrator".

 

I am happy to share the philosophical acumen of Zhuangzi's reductionism of Laozi.

 

For ZZ, Dao is even excrement... and thus, while Dao is even in language, it is actually a bit messier.

 

For ZZ, one should get rid of "this" and "that"; and "It" should get discarded as well.

 

Get rid of these and get closer to the Source [of "it"].

 

Thus, if LZ says, "F' This", ZZ's reductionism would be simply "F' ".

 

LZ has shown that if we focus on the words then we don't really understand the meaning. That is a principle of the TTC