Pain in prostate from stagnation?

[ChiDragon]

The liver and kidney meridians do go through the area below the belly button and there are some acupoints do effect the Reproductive System. However, the Conception Vessel is going through the center of the body. I have discovered that the acupoints, in the area, were most sensitive and effective to resolve the problem in question.

[Trunk]

The liver meridian massage idea appeals to me. Do you recommend starting at the big toe and working up, or the other way around? Does it matter?

I start from the big toe (between the big & 2nd toes), or simply from the ankle ... and I just generally work my way up the leg until I've had enough.

 

And, yes, the Liver channel is not the only thing that is pertinent. Perhaps I came off as steamrolling toward ChiDragon, my bad. It's just that the *topic* deserves more serious clarity, by far, than the general discussion in current western-Taoist culture gives it. Whatever points (or massaging along sections of a channel, or in whatever regions) help, help is help. Plenty to learn.

 

/rant off

/unfollowing

 

- Trunk

[qibrush]

Glad you helped this fellow to some degree with his immediate discomfort.

 

Often these sorts of problems are very stubborn to resolve, more extensively difficult, especially if someone has been experimenting with semen retention for a long time. In those cases your remedy is far from sufficient and saying that retention is not dangerous simply sends many students off a cliff from which they have a very difficult time recovering from. You don't know what seriousness of future trouble you are setting students up for by repeating overly simplistic solutions and assurances of no danger. Read the links that I provided.

 

 

So is semen retention something that shouldn’t be used? I'm not talking about long distance where I'm forcefully holding it in for 100 days or even a year I'm talking about more of 30 days then I release then another 30 days. Or is there really no way in which it can be used safely without having a teacher to talk too? I was under the impression that if one knows enough techniques for controlling stagnation (daily qi gong?), converting jing to shen, and doesn't have any sexual thoughts then it really would be fine.

[ChiDragon]

Based on the current information, semen was released in the prostate to protect the sperms from being harmed during sexual intercourse. Who gave this vague notion that semen has to be retained and use it with caution....???

I am so curious about what kind of precaution should be taken when one is making love to his wife....??? Please enlighten me on this sceptical subject.

Edited December 18, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Bubbles]

I am not going to lecture people about TCM. People can find a lot of informations about how these things work from a TCM point of view. I will just make a few points based on my limited understanding and based on what my little command of english permits.

 

The Liver meridian is closely associated to erection and sexual functioning because the Liver system is in charge of spreading qi and blood to the muscles, sinews etc . Of course, kidney qi is necessary in its yin and yang aspects but we could also mention spleen system. Indulging in masturbation can damage and weakens the erectile function in the long term, because of the weakening of kidney yin but also because this may create various stagnations in the liver channel.

 

When qi/blood stays to one place for too long it causes stagnation. The problem with semen retention is that people engage in sexual intercourse with all the multi dimensional aspects of it: physical, emotional and mental; which creates a strong qi/blood rush into the genital area, but that doesn't blossom into the neural and physical discharge of orgasm and ejaculation.

 

This creates an imbalance (not only physical but also emotional through the subtle frustation that nourishes liver qi stagnation) that people try to correct with qigong, massage and orbit and what have you.. But, who can tell how much qigong, massage and meditation per day is needed to have this whole thing balanced?

Isn't it common sense to avoid creating any imbalance in the first place?

 

There are not a lot of ways to avoid imbalances while avoiding to loose semen: joyful celibacy, balanced chastity (when engaged with a partner). But in any case, as joeblast said it : mind is the root and I would add :reaching a state of physical equilibrium ( yin-yang) is absolutely necessary, and cultivating what buddhists call 'metta' is an absolute requirement ( one can find similar things in all religions). Otherwise, it is a waste of time and people would be better off ejaculating in a no-brainer manner. Here we have the root (mind), the structure and wiring (physical) , and the blossoming (metta/love)

 

Utlimately, my take on it is simple: people focus a lot on not loosing qi via their semen. But people loose more qi on a daily basis, through unecessary thinking, desires, worries, emotions etc..than they do through ejaculation.

I mean, mind is the root .

 

Edited to correct the wording

Edited December 19, 2014 by bubbles

[joeblast]

So is semen retention something that shouldn’t be used? I'm not talking about long distance where I'm forcefully holding it in for 100 days or even a year I'm talking about more of 30 days then I release then another 30 days. Or is there really no way in which it can be used safely without having a teacher to talk too? I was under the impression that if one knows enough techniques for controlling stagnation (daily qi gong?), converting jing to shen, and doesn't have any sexual thoughts then it really would be fine.

your verbiage says your mindset is incorrect. forcing is not a term to use here.

 

taoist yoga morning vitality circulation

 

 

 

 

The cavity of mortality (root of the penis, huiyin) is the source from which all vitality circulates to the body. Focus on the cavity as the point of departure for the vitality and "breathe through the channels" in the path outlined upon getting out of bed in the morning.

 

 

1-Breathe in to drive the vital breath up from the huiyin through the governing vessel (tu mo) in the spine to the brain

 

2-Breathe out to lower the vital breath through the conception vessel (jen mo) down the front of the body to return to the huiyin.

 

3-Breathe in raising from huiyin through CV (jen mo) to the cavity of vitality (lower dantien) continuing split in two along both sides of the belt vessel (tai mo) joining at the lower back, continuing on up to the T5 vertebra (GV11 which is the heart point of the back) where it stops

 

4-Breathe out to let it flow from both shoulders down into the (positive) yang yu channels in the outer sides of both wrists, to the middle fingers before reaching the centers of both palms (PC8, laogung) where it stops (the common arm & legs channels are simply grouped together here since they flow in common direction.)

 

5-Breathe in to lift the vital breath from laogung into the (negative) yin yu channels on the insides of the wrists up to the chest where it stops

 

6-Breathe out to drive the vital breath down to the belt vessel where its two branches reunite before returning to the mortal cavity (huiyin)

 

7-Breathe in to lift it from the mortal cavity into the central channel (thrusting vessel, chung mo) up to the solar plexus (chiang kung cavity) where it stops; on no account should it rise above the heart.

 

8-Breathe out to send it from under the heart down to the huiyin where it divides into two to descend in the two (positive) yang chiao channels on the outer sides of the thighs and through the toes of the feet before reaching the yongquan cavity (KD1 point) where it stops

 

9-Breathe in to raise it from the yongquan into the (negative) yin chiao channels in the inner sides of the legs up to the huiyin and then to the lower dantien where it stops.

 

10-Breathe out to lower it to the huiyin where it stops.

 

This is especially effective if you do seated meditation at night. Even moreso if you can well maintain a still heart and don’t overindulge in senses. This circulation will eventually cause the vital force to thoroughly cleanse the channels and if you are able to produce real vitality it will vibrate through all of these channels, cleansing and purifying them.

 

(this is not verbatim from how it is in the book.)

 

 

it is but one aspect, dont overemphasize, just redirect the energy potentials and fulfill the transformational nature of energy. plant root of harmony, habituate, harvest.

[Ilkka]

PS....

 

Modern doctors said those who masturbate often may have a less chance of getting prostate cancer. I don't know how true that is.

I would think it is true in the works that when you use your muscles they tend to keep up their health as well. Otherwise it will stop functioning properly, eventually.

 

I have this old video called "Chinese Lovemaking Secrets Tantra And Tantric Sex Guide In English" in there they teach how to get longevity for having sex, by doing these certain daily exercises. Abdominal breathing is what I first learned from this video because it is the first one on it and second is to suck up testies and anus at the same time to get thos muscles into work. Don't actually know if it is keeping the cancer away but I think that is. Haven't done those exercises in a long time myself though. Somehow the interest just stopped.

[ChiDragon]

I would think it is true in the works that when you use your muscles they tend to keep up their health as well. Otherwise it will stop functioning properly, eventually.

 

I have this old video called "Chinese Lovemaking Secrets Tantra And Tantric Sex Guide In English" in there they teach how to get longevity for having sex, by doing these certain daily exercises. Abdominal breathing is what I first learned from this video because it is the first one on it and second is to suck up testies and anus at the same time to get thos muscles into work. Don't actually know if it is keeping the cancer away but I think that is. Haven't done those exercises in a long time myself though. Somehow the interest just stopped.

 

Thank you for stopping by.

 

Yes, abdominal breathing and muscle movement are the key to everything for longevity. Abdominal breathing is the Ultimate Method of Breathing(UMB) for Chi Kung. I am glad that your knowledge had a good start and way ahead of most people. Please don't stop those advanced level of exercises.

 

 

PS....

The cancer cells cannot survive in a rich environment of oxygen. The excess amount of oxygen provided by the UMB will destroy them up.

Edited December 20, 2014 by ChiDragon

[astralc]

Congestion of chi comes in many forms, in the head it can manifest as dizzyness, paranoia or headaches, it seems that congested chi in the prostate can manifest as pain of various descriptions too.

 

I think thats why we have the microcosmic orbit and other chi meditations, to chi encourage chi to flow, not to stagnate.

 

Great thread with insightful posts.

[Songtsan]

I swear by using a prostate or G-spot massage device and doing prostate massage via internal routes. Takes a few minutes per day and keeps the acini ducts clear.

[ChiDragon]

You swear on it.....???

[joeblast]

I sweat on the efferent nerves to my testes, so long as my mind is pure, my brain doesnt automatically tell 'em to go wild

[emptiness]

Hi All, I've been immersed in Taoist practices for about a half dozen years now. They've been a large focus of my life. And before that many, many years of other practices. I'm feeling stuckness in my prostate now. I'm 49 years old.

** I'm interested in messaging a couple/few guys who have experience with retention, who have good understanding of the practices (MCO, Fusion FE, etc.), have a clear view of costs and benefits of different ways of working with semen retention and clearing the prostate. There are so many people and so much content on here. I'd love to talk to people who are really good this and look calmly and objectively at ways to proceed. (I realize there are posts on this, but my preference is talk with a few people who are objective, open, and experienced.)

I'm often retaining as I find that very powerful. I was on retreat last year and a lot of that was in retention as that was more powerful for me. I had a girlfriend before that and was not in retention as much. Both are fine, just different choices for different reasons.

Before I could clear my prostate with ejaculation and MCO and my other practices. Now it's not clearing. I have to pee a LOT. I'm blessed to have a wonderful mentor for the Toaist practices however she's a she. She's learned from gifted people and read a lot but teaches from her own experiences. He suggestions about retention, etc. haven't been helpful while her suggestions about other aspects of the practices are spot on.

But again I need to clear my prostate and learn about long term costs of retention from a very experienced practioner. I'd also like to learn about if there are other things I need to do if I'm retaining, celibacy, etc.

[Andrei]

What do you mean "I have to pee a LOT"? You pee a big amount a couple of times per day or you pee several times per day just a couple of drops?

 

Long term costs of retention are: BPH (bening prostatic hyperplasia), epididymis channels inflammation or seminal vesicles stones even cancer. 

[astralc]

Hi All, I've been immersed in Taoist practices for about a half dozen years now. They've been a large focus of my life. And before that many, many years of other practices. I'm feeling stuckness in my prostate now. I'm 49 years old.

** I'm interested in messaging a couple/few guys who have experience with retention, who have good understanding of the practices (MCO, Fusion FE, etc.), have a clear view of costs and benefits of different ways of working with semen retention and clearing the prostate. There are so many people and so much content on here. I'd love to talk to people who are really good this and look calmly and objectively at ways to proceed. (I realize there are posts on this, but my preference is talk with a few people who are objective, open, and experienced.)

I'm often retaining as I find that very powerful. I was on retreat last year and a lot of that was in retention as that was more powerful for me. I had a girlfriend before that and was not in retention as much. Both are fine, just different choices for different reasons.

Before I could clear my prostate with ejaculation and MCO and my other practices. Now it's not clearing. I have to pee a LOT. I'm blessed to have a wonderful mentor for the Toaist practices however she's a she. She's learned from gifted people and read a lot but teaches from her own experiences. He suggestions about retention, etc. haven't been helpful while her suggestions about other aspects of the practices are spot on.

But again I need to clear my prostate and learn about long term costs of retention from a very experienced practioner. I'd also like to learn about if there are other things I need to do if I'm retaining, celibacy, etc.

 

Don't forget your basic prostate health needs: zinc, natural anti-inflammatories like vitamin C, MMS and herbs. May I suggest you go to a good naturopath or TCM practitioner and get it looked into. Excessive peeing at night is a common enlarged prostate problem so get it checked out.

[emptiness]

Don't forget your basic prostate health needs: zinc, natural anti-inflammatories like vitamin C, MMS and herbs. May I suggest you go to a good naturopath or TCM practitioner and get it looked into. Excessive peeing at night is a common enlarged prostate problem so get it checked out.

 

What do you mean "I have to pee a LOT"? You pee a big amount a couple of times per day or you pee several times per day just a couple of drops?

 

Thanks guys.  I've heard seeing a health practitioner from a couple places now.  I have a great nutritionist who can heal most things with nutrition.  I'll give her a call and look for a TCM practioner, maybe some acupuncture.  And good question about peeing, I mean I pee often in small amounts.  I had been retaining for a while and was on a retreat, and I needed to come to a big city.  I found myself with a lot of built up sexual energy and not as much time to do practices (MCO, etc.).  I masturbated and was starting to ejaculate and stopped (as most of you have probably experienced it's a split second choice some times).  I should have ejaculated.  After that I had to pee with even a small amount of pee.  It's crazy.  It's getting a little better but not great.  I've done a lot of MCO, done workouts, kegles, prostate exercises and massage (externally), ejaculated, etc.  My prostate still feels not hard, but stiff. 

This is also part of a deeper need.  I mentioned my Taoist mentor is female.  She has an incredible knowing of the practices and is able to answer my questions and I love the results.  But I need to find a male mentor as well to figure out when to retain, when not to retain, how to retain in a relationship, how to retain a lot long term but still take care of my prostate.  My mentor now is really bright and has great sensing, is very knowledgeable and gifted.  I'd love to work with someone with those qualities whose a guy.  I'd love to hear any ideas on people, resources, etc.  I'm in South America right now so it would need to be someone down here which I doubt, or over the phone, or maybe a great website or book, although I need more than just a book.  I connect a lot with Stewart Olsen's work to give an idea what I find helpful.  I'm also on retreat, for a lack of a better word, down here, so am mindful of how much I spend.

Thanks guys, peace and health to you all.