Karma IS real after all . ( or is it ? )

[Rara]

 

The intellect can set up a number of reasons for why you want to do this because it is based on limited intelligence.

How so...?

[Rocky Lionmouth]

I dont believe in Karma as in the whole accumulation of a positive debt in the balance of existance and merit building, being a good person theough deed and thought and that'll grant you a better life and/or nextlife, being a bad person will end you up a worm or something.

I also dont believe in social darwinism, closely related to Karma. Its a powerful tool to maintain an advantage to those of a "lower" standing through a "higher" power that dishes out rewards and punishments. I firmly believe that the universe treats us as straw dogs and that there should be a karma is too deus ex machina for me, gives humanity and earth too much attention.

But the fact that if you give energy you might eventually get some back is plausible, interacting with surroundings of both psychological, spiritual and physical nature.

 

But i do believe that karma is a practical word today. And in cause, effect and and the notion that there are greater forces at work than the 1=1 thing, especially for people doing good things. Causality in life has random outfalls. Some people have illustrious fine good karma and life and people keep slugging them and suckerpunching them anyway, almost like irony. Lets not fall to the temptation that we can see all logical steps and development all the time, inwant to know and organize all the time, but i try to refrain, out of respect for Lao Tzu, Zhuang Zi and Socrates.

 

Dont spend a life being good for karmas sake, its a waste of time. Goodness itself is a terrible and fickle mistress who is secretly in cahoots with badness, they're both out to crush you under their heels. Btw Immanuel Kant was the antichrist.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Rocky Lionmouth

[3bob]

Cool Do you have an example or hypothetical situation where you can demonstrate the non-human version?

 

Um, first we need to define the meanings of "human" (which I used as a catch all type of term earlier that leaves a lot to be desired or considered further) For instance, the differences between a human that only practices an "eye for eye" type of justice, another that may not always practice such, and also one who never practices such. Thus karmas can work differently through those three beings - where labels like the following could more or less be applied: 1. purely instinctive and reactive, 2. somewhat or sometimes able to see and consider options, and 3. those steadfast in non-reactive action, able to see most or all options and practice the ones of the least negative consequences, including even the nipping in the bud, mitigating or transforming and balancing of karmas...

 

some examples pending...

Edited December 22, 2014 by 3bob

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

my father likes to say that even the risen Buddha has karma.

To exist is to be at the whim of existence and all of the things that have happened up to now, regardless of your part in them

[TaoMaster]

Yep. You could. And no religion that I know of uses a bucket as the source of all life.

haha I know . I love analogies though The closest to a single soul for all life forms is the voodoo religion , ( yes voodoo is a religion ) it states that there are three bodies ( life forms ) for each soul.

 

Scientology, Christianity , Hindu, Judiism says, like most , a single soul for every life form .

 

truth be told from my experiences anyways,

 

and you can see it in the so called " love hate rice experiment , "

 

each cell in a life form is a life form in its own right independent of all other life forms until it dies.

 

Each grain of rice is in a way like a cell in a life form . It doesn't live long but like all life forms it has consciousness and awareness and emotions , love>< hate confidence>< fear happy >< sad etc etc etc.

 

NOW, if that's not spiritual , then I give up .

 

But I never give up ever . Ill die before I tap out

 

when you project Love ( Yang + ) life forms tend to thrive and when you project hate ( yin -) it goes south and fails. Nothing more to Karma that I know of . Just more or less of the same things in larger or smaller quantities of yang and yin .

 

Edited December 22, 2014 by TaoMaster

[TaoMaster]

When you ignore the rice ( YIN ) it too falls into the same class as Hate ( YIN ) and it falters.

YANG is the answer Love is an attribute of YANG baby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dHUfy_YBps

 

Sincere enough ?Genuine ? Brotha Bri ?

 

I love every body , even you Brian .

 

When you give love you'll get it back and vs versa. If You hate , it hates or ( YINS ) back .

 

Make a list and get to know whats Yang and whats YIN .

 

Your life will improve 100 x

 

I PROMISE and I don't lie . Why should I ?

 

start your own set like this one .

 

YANGS ><YINS

 

1st last

+ -

pos><neg

happy><sad

plus><minus

white><black

Top><bottom

bright><dull

paradise><hellishness

truth><lie

Reality><illusion

Transparent><solidity

go><stop

up><down

heaven><hell

love><hate

better><worse

fast><slow

wake><sleep

power><weakness

help><hinder

sweet><sour

Attentive><ignore

know><not know

understand><misunderstand

light><dark

bueaty><ugly

able.><unable

ability><disability

smile><frown

morning><night

forward><backward

future><past

alpha ><omega

 

the list is as long as you want to make it.

 

• when we love+ a person or thing and the person or thing hurts- us we feel yin- worse
• when we hate- a person or thing and the person or thing helps+ us we feel yang+ better

You'll NEVER EVER need to read about anything ever again . You'll just know it when you see it .

 

Signature below

Package delivered

 

With all my love

 

The Taomaster+

Edited December 22, 2014 by TaoMaster

[Marblehead]

Each grain of rice is in a way like a cell in a life form . It doesn't live long but like all life forms it has consciousness and awareness and emotions , love>< hate confidence>< fear happy >< sad etc etc etc.

 

NOW, if that's not spiritual , then I give up .

I wonder what those rice grains are thinking when I throw them into a pan with some water and butter and then turn up the heat. I'll bet they aren't thinking "I love you."

[3bob]

I wonder what those rice grains are thinking when I throw them into a pan with some water and butter and then turn up the heat. I'll bet they aren't thinking "I love you."

 

Are you thinking that you "love" those little grains before, during and after cooking?

 

"By the same power that slays you, I too am slain; and I too shall be consumed.

For the law that delivered you into my hand shall deliver me into a mightier hand"

[Rara]

 

Um, first we need to define the meanings of "human" (which I used as a catch all type of term earlier that leaves a lot to be desired or considered further) For instance, the differences between a human that only practices an "eye for eye" type of justice, another that may not always practice such, and also one who never practices such. Thus karmas can work differently through those three beings - where labels like the following could more or less be applied: 1. purely instinctive and reactive, 2. somewhat or sometimes able to see and consider options, and 3. those steadfast in non-reactive action, able to see most or all options and practice the ones of the least negative consequences, including even the nipping in the bud, mitigating or transforming and balancing of karmas...

 

some examples pending...

Ok, I will wait as I think I know what you're saying, but I don't want to speak too soon. Edited December 22, 2014 by Rara

[Marblehead]

Ok, I will wait as I think I know what you're saying, but I don't want to speak too soon.

Oh, go on. Put it out there and let people step on it.

[TaoMaster]

I wonder what those rice grains are thinking when I throw them into a pan with some water and butter and then turn up the heat. I'll bet they aren't thinking "I love you."

haha im laughing so hard now..... thx . poor little grains

[TaoMaster]

Are you thinking that you "love" those little grains before, during and after cooking?

 

"By the same power that slays you, I too am slain; and I too shall be consumed.

For the law that delivered you into my hand shall deliver me into a mightier hand"

that's the scary part......... LIFE doesn't care one way or another . Why? life never dies, only the life forms it lives in do .

 

If life says so,,,,,, my body is dead and that's that . I get a pink slip and its asta lavesta baby im outa here. No remorse, regrets , nada. zippo. Life could not care less.

[Bearded Dragon]

im pretty sure "karma" from the Hinduism has much truth to it but.............. from life time to life time ?

 

I see it as an instant phenomenon, like thelearner has pointed out .

 

if you smile at another they tend to smile back .

 

pass out $100 dollar bills at a homeless shelter and they will be all smiles happy and happy to do a few things good for you in return

 

But if you kill your neighbors dog for crapping on your lawn , your neighbor will be like HEY %^$%&%$$##@#^ ARE YOU CRAZY ? :angry: Im gonna get you for that you %&$%$%#$$%#$^

 

good brings more goodness and bad brings more badness.

 

that pretty much sums it up . Past life Karma stuff ? not buying it.

 

there are lives lived in the past yes . infinite past at that . But not in terms of individual souls. Its 1 soul ( also know as life the creator of all things. ) for all physical life forms going backward infinitely and forward infinitely .

 

life, the creator of all things is like water in a bucket. When any life form dies its water returns to the bucket............ not from one life form that has died to a new life form being born it goes to the bucket and becomes one with all life . Then a new drop of water is added to another new life form. From my experience anyway. I don't have a youtube video to confirm that . Just personal experience, a google amount of times or more.

 

when a plane crashes , its " how many souls on board " who perished. There was only one . The same one for all life forms.

should be " how many bodies on board. "

 

I could start a new religion . No religion I know of on the planet see's it this way as a single soul for all life forms like I do .

 

That's heading in the right direction. I thought in a similar manner at one point but I've changed my idea slightly.

 

It's true that it's an instant phenomena. How could it be anything else since the present is the only time you ever do anything? Karma is merely to do with clinging to the energy of that instant rather than applying selflessly to the situation and moving on. Applying selflessly and moving on is merely acting on the potential of the situation in an instant without such a thought of the past or future. It is dealing with the matter here and now fully and completely.

 

Passing out a few hundred dollar bills at a homeless shelter would be quite an ignorant plan, but who's to say it would be good or bad when actually carried out? You don't ever know what's going to go down. You might accidentally dish out your money at the local terror cell next door to the homeless shelter. Hardly "good karma" by the definition provided by the masses. Nevertheless one cannot state as a rule whether karmic energy would be generated.

 

People can argue as much as they want about whether the past and future exist. It's beside the point here. Nobody could argue against the fact that the present is the only time you do anything. Therefore applying oneself fully and completely to the present situation is the highest virtue in freeing oneself from bounding karmic energy. One must learn to SEE in order to apply oneself optimally, but once you SEE you realise that everything is optimal/complete anyway. This is heading towards freedom from karma.

 

If you want to take it back to yin and yang you could say that association with yin and yang is the binding of karma. Seeing that yin and yang are born from you but are not you (but still a part of you) is freedom from karma.

[3bob]

Beings only exist in periods of time and space, take away those periods then the Tao has not given birth to The One, The Two, The Three, and the Ten Thousand per the teaching of the Tao Teh Ching, along with the I - Ching being null and void since it would never have arisen in relation to said non-existent Beings and all other non existent forms. Thus the relative past and future (with their karmas) all exist and are connected along with or in the un-measureable absolute and unchanging karma-free present.

Edited December 24, 2014 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

Nice post 3bob. I still have problems with your understanding of the future though.

 

Sure, the plot has been established. Not all of the script has been written yet though. Nor have all the players (actors) been hired. Of course, this is only considering life with humans. This has been only a very short period of time compared to the life of the universe.

 

The universe follows its Tzujan. Humans follow ... (whatever).

[3bob]

Nice post 3bob. I still have problems with your understanding of the future though.

 

Sure, the plot has been established. Not all of the script has been written yet though. Nor have all the players (actors) been hired. Of course, this is only considering life with humans. This has been only a very short period of time compared to the life of the universe.

 

The universe follows its Tzujan. Humans follow ... (whatever).

 

Thanks MH,

Imagine the One, it contains the Two.... thus if you will imagine the Tao (or whatever term) it contains all past and future, like inside a circle instead of only in a straight line. Hard to imagine right?

Edited December 23, 2014 by 3bob

[3bob]

Ok, I will wait as I think I know what you're saying, but I don't want to speak too soon.

 

Examples related to earlier post:

 

The great Sage for #3. "those steadfast in non-reactive action, able to see most or all options and practice the ones of the least negative consequences, including even the nipping in the bud, mitigating or transforming and balancing of karma's".

 

Btw, karma's are not exactly or only good or bad when seen from a greater viewpoint of learning from and balancing of same, thus one might say it is or can be good to learn from bad along with such other double takes.

 

For #2. "somewhat or sometimes able to see and consider options", are those who have learned some karmic lessons and sometimes apply same.

 

And for #1, "purely instinctive and reactive", are those caught in the reactive brunt since not much learning has taken place - yet.

 

One might ask, "what defines learning and with what framework or standard" To that I'd answer to the framework and standard of the Tao for "what is against the Tao will soon cease to be" (from chapter 30 and also in other chapters)

Edited December 23, 2014 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

Thanks MH,

Imagine the One, it contains the Two.... thus if you will imagine the Tao (or whatever term) it contains all past and future, like inside a circle instead of only in a straight line. Hard to imagine right?

Hehehe. Yep, very hard indeed. And you know why? Because I hold to the concept that time is linear. What happens when someone draws outside the circle?

[3bob]

Hehehe. Yep, very hard indeed. And you know why? Because I hold to the concept that time is linear. What happens when someone draws outside the circle?

 

if an apparently straight line of light traveling in or per time bends around and bites itself in the ass then what?

Edited December 23, 2014 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

if an apparently straight line of light traveling in or per time bends around and bites itself in the ass then what?

It likely got sucked into a black hole and will never be seen again. (Or maybe it says to its self, "Up yours!")

[3bob]

hehe, or maybe it makes a circle or cycle when viewed in another way. Btw, don't some say there is a white hole on the other side of a black hole so the energy would be seen again so to speak, since in that sense even a black hole can not destroy energy?

 

Consider some short excerpts from the T.T.C.: "Continually the Un-nameable moves on, until it returns (or circles back on itself per an image I'm positing) beyond the realm of things" (Ch 14) and then I'd crudely say bites itself in the ass where it is and always was "Standing alone without change" (ch 25), thus in that state-less state without movement linear or otherwise.

Edited December 23, 2014 by 3bob

[Rara]

Oh, go on. Put it out there and let people step on it.

Nope. I've learned this trick from you haha.

[Rara]

 

Examples related to earlier post:

 

The great Sage for #3. "those steadfast in non-reactive action, able to see most or all options and practice the ones of the least negative consequences, including even the nipping in the bud, mitigating or transforming and balancing of karma's".

 

Btw, karma's are not exactly or only good or bad when seen from a greater viewpoint of learning from and balancing of same, thus one might say it is or can be good to learn from bad along with such other double takes.

 

For #2. "somewhat or sometimes able to see and consider options", are those who have learned some karmic lessons and sometimes apply same.

 

And for #1, "purely instinctive and reactive", are those caught in the reactive brunt since not much learning has taken place - yet.

 

One might ask, "what defines learning and with what framework or standard" To that I'd answer to the framework and standard of the Tao for "what is against the Tao will soon cease to be" (from chapter 30 and also in other chapters)

Cool! But we are still talking about us being the authors of our own karma. The cultivation leads us to a place where we can eventually choose the best decision, rather than being attached to an emotion (revenge is the first thing that pops into my head).

 

I did a job for a small business a while ago and still haven't been paid. I threatened him formally with court and he phoned me and threatened to "tear my head off".

 

I sent another order and he continued to ignore the courts. When I went down the bailif route, I realised that this was hurting me much more than him...I was still doing all the work! Plus, I found that in the laws here, we need a home address for bailifs (which of course I didn't have)

 

I was so angry and felt so helpless and foolish. I felt the need to brick his window or make multiple orders of his products to fake addresses or something.

 

Thankfully I didn't, and I meditated so much. I realise that only I could keep myself in the viscious cycle of revenge and what if I did do him harm? Then he would seek revenge on me. What about my home, my girlfriend and family? He knew where I live...my home address is on the top of my invoices!

 

So, I let sleeping dogs lie. And I stopped grabbing business from anyone that came my way.

 

Learned lessons...I haven't had a non payment in 13 months

[3bob]

"Cool! But we are still talking about us being the authors of our own karma. The cultivation leads us to a place where we can eventually choose the best decision, rather than being attached to an emotion (revenge is the first thing that pops into my head)" by Rara.

 

Agreed to a certain point but we still have to write or be authors (so to speak) within a greater framework or context of laws derived from Tao, thus anyone who says something like, "I did it my way" regardless of and bragging on a seeming independence from the greater law which is impartial and exacting - is missing the Way. (for if such was possible then chaos would be a vast understatement for the condition of the universe, which would then not be the universe)

[TaoMaster]

Hehehe. Yep, very hard indeed. And you know why? Because I hold to the concept that time is linear. What happens when someone draws outside the circle?

the circle gets bigger . Like a thing that starts small and grows

 

Look at time as a dot . Then draw a circle around the dot but dont take your pencil off the paper ., then another circle around that circle 100 billion times But its more like a spiral or a Galaxy . The center of the Galaxy comes first . ITS 100%light and it trails darkness. This is how we have both light and dark in the universe. Yang and yin together = a UNI verse. 1 Its a single item with + and - pole 360 degrees . like a round magnet

 

Time is both linear and circular like drawing a spiral with a pencil round and round.

 

The planet is not turning around its spiraling around. Galaxies and all solar systems are spiraling outward.