a little dark: How have the masters die?

[thelerner]

This is a bit dark, but for some reason on my mind. How have great masters died? (i forgot d in the title) Those of the modern age as well as historically.

 

Are there any commonalities? I don't want this thread to turn negative towards any one or any practice, matter of fact I'd be interested in learning about the person's life and accomplishments. Yet I wonder what we can learn, if anything from the circumstances of there death.

Edited December 26, 2014 by thelerner

[idiot_stimpy]

I've had this weird impression that some of those I have been interested died between the ages of 56 to 58.

 

It occurs to me this is around the time of the second Saturn Return.

Edited December 22, 2014 by idiot_stimpy

[thelerner]

Many masters have died young. I don't think it should be a criticism. Some things are a matter of fate.

[mewtwo]

great book

 

http://www.amazon.com/Graceful-Exits-stories-Tibetan-Buddhist/dp/1590302702

[JinlianPai]

This is a bit dark, but for some reason on my mind. How have great masters died? Those of the modern age as well as historically.

 

Are there any commonalities? I don't want this thread to turn negative towards any one or any practice, matter of fact I'd be interested in learning about the person's life and accomplishments. Yet I wonder what we can learn, if anything from the circumstances of there death.

 

 

I remember reading a inside kung fu magazine about this years ago and I also remember discussing it with my teacher at that time.

 

His explanation was this (note: I can not say it as good as my teacher said it) that mastery comes with time. It matures. Once a young man or woman starts to maximize on all of there virtues at one time the flow is cut off and life ends.

 

My teacher put it much better than me.

 

He broke it down to the types of chi (jing, chi, shen) and their spiritual virtues. And how one flows to one over time.

 

It was a great conversation he even wrote it down for me if I can find ill post it here.

 

But one of the things he told me that stuck with me is "That only saints get into heaven"

[thelerner]

I was at an ashram and during a question/answer period someone asked a swami if doing yoga allowed people to live longer. I expected a quick 'yes', but the swami took there time to answer the question. He said that Yoga improves assuredly improves the quality of life but no guarantee for longevity. Later in that visit the Yogi who founded Sivananda (or was it his successor?) was brought into a camp. A man of prodigious energy who'd written the books and coined sayings like 'Health is Wealth' he was there and he'd suffered a paralyzing stoke. He needed to be carried and looked pained.

 

I don't know about fate but it seemed like a hell of a test of character. In my eyes not a punishment but a supreme test.

[idiot_stimpy]

As a thought is born and disappears into the depths of the mind, the body is born and eventually must disappear also.

[C T]

Actually there is no knowledge of the body apart from thoughts.

[Jetsun]

Some of them seem to get cancer like Ramana,Nisargadatta Maharaj, Shunryu Suzuki. Chogyam Trungpa had liver failure of some sort. The Zen master Kobun Chino Otogawa drowned trying to save his daughter who also drowned.

 

IMO what's more important than longevity is the awareness that you could die at any moment, then you can handle it when it comes rather than it being a big shock which you resist.

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited January 9, 2015 by chris d

[C T]

Yes, there is. There is intuitive knowing.

I was being specific - without thoughts, what can we say about a body? Yes, one may have a sense of a body, but 'body' is merely a conventional description, a linguistic convenience. Perhaps its more accurate and helpful to say, "There is sensation" without the common association of "My body is sensing...". There are a few advantages of not associating the body with sensations if one seeks release from attachment, clinging, etc. One can still acknowledge the whole spectrum of sensate experience without getting lost and limitedly defined by claiming ownership of these experiences, just as we cannot claim ownership of what transpires in dreams, for example.

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited January 9, 2015 by chris d

[3bob]

The word "masters" has several degrees so such should have agreed upon meanings...

 

Having said that great masters do not die per-se, the soul that they are travels to the sun and perhaps then to the Sun of all suns. One may get a visitors pass there but only great masters can stay and or explain to whatever degree needed - answers to such a question.

Edited December 24, 2014 by 3bob

[ChiDragon]

This is a bit dark, but for some reason on my mind. How have great masters died? Those of the modern age as well as historically.

 

Are there any commonalities? I don't want this thread to turn negative towards any one or any practice, matter of fact I'd be interested in learning about the person's life and accomplishments. Yet I wonder what we can learn, if anything from the circumstances of there death.

 

They died of natural and unnatural causes. The commonality is they die.....

[Astral Monk]

 

They died of natural and unnatural causes. The commonality is they die.....

and that none of their practices deliver longevity. That goal seems unattainable, unless you are working to become an immortal and you thereby change the state and function of your bodily form.

 

if a qigong healer whose practice opens up the heart dies of heart failure, we might have cause to suspect the worth and value of such practice. Otherwise I expect most 'masters' die in very normal ways like everyone else.

 

It is suggestive, no..?

 

8)

Edited December 25, 2014 by Astral Monk

[Yasjua]

I was being specific - without quacking, what can we quack about a body? Yes, one may quack quack quack quack quack, quack 'body' is merely a conventional quack, a quack convenience.

 

You probably want to believe this because it fits with your model and expectation of spiritual growth. But I really don't think it's your actual experience. I gather this from your strong identification with your mind, which comes through clearly in your posts. There's no use trying to shed the body with the mind, they're the same thing. You should probably embrace the body instead of trying to cast if off prematurely. I could be wrong though.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Yasjua

[ChiDragon]

and that none of their practices deliver longevity. That goal seems unattainable, unless you are working to become an immortal and you thereby change the state and function of your bodily form.

 

if a qigong healer whose practice opens up the heart dies of heart failure, we might have cause to suspect the worth and value of such practice. Otherwise I expect most 'masters' die in very normal ways like everyone else.

 

It is suggestive, no..?

 

8)

 

The practice do deliver longevity. That goal seems attainable but working to become an immortal is not. The Chi Kung practitioners do change the state and function of your bodily form to attain longevity. I do, definitely, expect them to live longer but only die in very normal ways like everyone else such as old age.

[3bob]

The meaning of "immortal" is not exactly agreed upon, for instance are the gods immortal compared to normal mankind - yes, are the lesser gods or devas immortal compared to the gods -no, is the master who is at one with the Tao more immortal than the gods - perhaps or for some of them, does someone who denies the immortal out of very limited experience and or a closed mind know much about of such states - obviously no compared to those who know differently from first hand experience and knowledge.

Edited December 25, 2014 by 3bob

[ChiDragon]

3bob.....
Do you agree that an immortal was once a normal mankind; and the gods were not.....???

[3bob]

3bob.....

Do you agree that an immortal was once a normal mankind; and the gods were not.....???

 

I say that I have met and or come across gods, immortals, and some counter-parts to same but i don't really know much and can't claim to be qualified to teach about same. (although able mention witness of such to some degree)

 

Btw, one might ask, is "The One" that contains all gods and immortals, immortal itself?

Edited December 26, 2014 by 3bob

[松永道]

Depends on what they practice.

 

If they practice for Jing and a strong lower dantian more often than the third eye/upper dantian/shen they should be healthy and long lived. If they practice the upper more often they will burn out faster.

 

Jing transforms into Qi, Qi into Shen. This is the way of maturation. Post-natal manifestation. Natural movement.

Shen transforms into Qi, Qi into Jing. This is the way of birth. Pre-natal creation. Reverse movement.

 

The trick is, often to go forward, one needs to first go back. To go up, first dig down. This is something a lot of philosophical Daoist don't understand about the cultivators. To them it seems the cultivators are always trying to move counter to nature. Reverse breath and grow young. But really, they're just setting up the slingshot - pulling the bowstring back.

 

Or maybe they just love living.

Edited December 26, 2014 by 松永道