holism

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

I just want to take a moment to forward the thought that above all of the divisions of groups, teachers, lineages, books, practices, and other ephemera, there is one thing that ties daoism together, and that is the holistic principle of the connection of the things that exist in this continuum.

 

I would like to suggest that it would be a wonderful idea to put aside thoughts of who is more genuine and who has the real goods, and just work on improving ourselves together.

 

This whole thing about "so and so pai and such and such teacher from wang whoever or zhang dao whatshis name" is only useful so far as history goes. If your teacher has the real goods, you should be happy, but it is outright silly to deride others because you imagine them not to have the goods.

 

I feel a bit disheartened when I see folks going on and on about what is or is not daoist, or neidan, or whether the southern, northern, or middle school is best, or even individual sects within a school or two teachers within a sect.

 

I basically ran away from the gongfu community for these reasons.

the only practice is the one that you do, and the only person who can deliver the goods and the understanding is you.

to (loosely) quote wu zhen pian "yesterday i rode in the streets on my horse, but today i lay in my coffin." life is too short to argue about what your teacher told you and how it is more right than what someone elses' teacher told them.

 

 

[Daeluin]

When the whole is divided, parts need names.

The parts are infinite, but all come from the tao.

Thus the ways back to the tao are infinite.

 

When we seek return, we are calling out for something external, and so may be drawn to schools and teachers with specific methods, often helping us to return to ourselves and to stop seeking.

 

Even within one school, experiences will vary, and to compare experiences with others often invites confusion.

 

Some like to point out how methods that do not reach the root are wrong. But everyone's way is unique, and what is right or wrong for that person will be different for another. A person pursuing a career in healing may not be doing "neidan", but might be re-balancing karma from a life spent as a warrior. Who are we to judge what is right or wrong for someone's way?

 

I like to believe that if one listens to their true heart and follows their intuition, they will find their way. And I also believe in radiating trust to everyone unconditionally, trusting them to do what is right for them. Because what do I know? Who am I to judge? Hopefully trusting them will help them come to trust themselves and help them align with their way.

[johndoe2012]

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Edited January 9, 2015 by chris d

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

A good example is that many more Buddhists have been put on the record for Achieving enlightenment than have Daoists.

So if anything, we ought to learn a bit from their method.

 

It is similar to the argument about Chinese internal martial arts vs. Western sports martial arts.

Neither is superior, they only have strong and weak players and people who do or do not understand the interior of the art.

 

I think if any arguing is done, it ought to be academic and textual.

That way we can all make progress together.

[dawei]

 

I just want to take a moment to forward the thought that above all of the divisions of groups, teachers, lineages, books, practices, and other ephemera, there is one thing that ties daoism together, and that is the holistic principle of the connection of the things that exist in this continuum.

 

I would like to suggest that it would be a wonderful idea to put aside thoughts of who is more genuine and who has the real goods, and just work on improving ourselves together.

 

This whole thing about "so and so pai and such and such teacher from wang whoever or zhang dao whatshis name" is only useful so far as history goes. If your teacher has the real goods, you should be happy, but it is outright silly to deride others because you imagine them not to have the goods.

I feel a bit disheartened when I see folks going on and on about what is or is not daoist, or neidan, or whether the southern, northern, or middle school is best, or even individual sects within a school or two teachers within a sect.

 

All very true... and I'm glad you took it here

 

 

I basically ran away from the gongfu community for these reasons.

 

And I from Christianity for similar reasons

 

the only practice is the one that you do, and the only person who can deliver the goods and the understanding is you.

to (loosely) quote wu zhen pian "yesterday i rode in the streets on my horse, but today i lay in my coffin." life is too short to argue about what your teacher told you and how it is more right than what someone elses' teacher told them.

 

I have pondered why ancient practices seem more simple and modern practices claim such complex ones...

 

It seems to me that the passage of time and the influences on man create some sort of separation requiring more complex practices... Yet some today will find the simple path remains as well.

[PLB]

What little I have learned has mostly been a process of paying closer attention to what has been explained already or even repeated many times.

 

If I do not receive any other instruction in my life after this moment, it is unfortunate because I know there are people who can teach me more than I can find out by myself.

 

On the other hand, I have barely begun unpacking what has been shown to me already. The cup is both empty and full. There is nothing to compare the experience with.

 

Edit: I wish I wasn't the last word on this thread. I wholeheartedly agree with the call to look toward what draws us together rather than only talk about separations.

 

While thinking about the different discussions upon the matter, it occurs to me that appearances can be deceiving.

Edited January 3, 2015 by PLB