Christmas family disagreements, and a realisation

[Rara]

Yeah, he always "Like"s my posts even when I get on his case. Hehehe.

Now that I've been on this fprum a couple of years, I have developed that old human "clique" mentality. I will forever be a suck up haha.

 

I will go and like that post after I post this one.

[Rara]

 

You knew what to do and tried. You had tried to cultivate but not hard enough.

 

Why can you pick up after your mother and keep calm like her. She has lots of patience with you and treated you as her son.

 

 

Then, go find yourself.

 

 

Emotionless. Great, that is a state of Wu Wei. Do you know how hard for someone to reach to this level of cultivation? Thus it's better than screaming and yelling at your mom.

 

 

 

On a good day, I have wu wei.

 

On a bad day, I scream like a 2 year old.

 

My cultivation/results have always been tempramental. Even when meditating daily. Idk.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Rara

[GrandmasterP]

Hehe, the image of the stereotypical Taoist smiling and nodding politely.

Might come across as fake but hey, this advice is better than anything I have thought of yet!

 

Fake it 'til you make it buddy.

I wish my old mum was still round to tear me a new one.

Cherish your parents whilst you have them, no one is perfect and once you recognise the triggers you can let them float by.

Best wishes to ya.

[skydog]

When you gain self esteem, awareness etc

 

You may have a greater anger ( a feeling that the way somebody is behaving towards you, is not acceptable and is wrong and you are not going to put up with it)

 

This is not neccessarily a bad thing

 

Otherwise we would just be a doormat

 

Every trait has a positive and a negative side to it

 

In fact I would say most people have far too little anger in society these days

 

They have far too little self esteem and awareness of how people manipulate them that that they just dont seem to care, they smile when others abuse them because they dont realise that they are a queen or a king too

 

Being "enlightened" doesnt neccessarily mean that we allow others to shit all over us

 

and if we respond it is "us" who is bad

 

In familys and social environment we we gain inner power, other people dont like it, they become resentful and want to gain it back, some people love to feel powerful and try to assert some authority so they say or do things in a way to manipulate or guilt trip or make you feel like you dont know who you are.

 

But it is our job to make sure we dont let their "attempts" get to us

 

The main thing that helps me get through being with some people is to try to understand people from a soul level, like what they are here for on earth to do, their destiny, their element type, their family history and try to empathise with my own similar experiences and my own similar responses, I try to watch my intentions before saying something or not saying it,

 

Many things in life are really just social conditioning.

 

Like how youll read so many things in the news about men being so evil and women being discriminated against, when there are just as many if not more for things being the opposite way around

 

So the idea that your parents are always right is also bull

[GrandmasterP]

When you gain self esteem, awareness etc

 

You may have a greater anger ( a feeling that the way somebody is behaving towards you, is not acceptable and is wrong and you are not going to put up with it)

 

This is not neccessarily a bad thing

 

Otherwise we would just be a doormat

 

Every trait has a positive and a negative side to it

 

In fact I would say most people have far too little anger in society these days

 

They have far too little self esteem and awareness of how people manipulate them that that they just dont seem to care, they smile when others abuse them because they dont realise that they are a queen or a king too

 

Being "enlightened" doesnt neccessarily mean that we allow others to shit all over us

 

and if we respond it is "us" who is bad

 

In familys and social environment we we gain inner power, other people dont like it, they become resentful and want to gain it back, some people love to feel powerful and try to assert some authority so they say or do things in a way to manipulate or guilt trip or make you feel like you dont know who you are.

 

But it is our job to make sure we dont let their "attempts" get to us

 

The main thing that helps me get through being with some people is to try to understand people from a soul level, like what they are here for on earth to do, their destiny, their element type, their family history and try to empathise with my own similar experiences and my own similar responses, I try to watch my intentions before saying something or not saying it,

 

Many things in life are really just social conditioning.

 

Like how youll read so many things in the news about men being so evil and women being discriminated against, when there are just as many if not more for things being the opposite way around

 

So the idea that your parents are always right is also bull

 

Edited December 29, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Aetherous]

Either way, it was my pulse that was high, not hers. And she did say, "it's not normal for a son to spend so much time away and then when he comes back, to start shouting so much three days in".

 

Nah, it is unbelievably normal.

 

It's a common aspect of manipulators or emotional vampires (not to call your mom names), that they will seem totally cool while they energetically/verbally/emotionally assault you. Don't fall for it.

 

This is not a reason to despise them, but it's just important to know the truth behind appearances. It's also good that you're looking at your cultivation long term, and in every moment.

 

It's a learning process, and is hard work.

[Rara]

I concur with thelerner -- and I like ChiDragon's recommendation to go find yourself. I think there is value in understanding one's self before letting it go, much like one shouldn't tear down a fence without understanding why it was erected.

 

Rara, you are no longer a teenager (or even an early twenty-something, which seems the functional equivalent these days). Your mother is no longer the boss of you but it sounds like you aren't, either. Time to slide into the driver's seat, very gently take the controls, and begin to chart your own course.

Hi Brian. Absolutely, and I think that teen is still inside me because the nature of me moving away was yo get the hell away. With my mother's guidance, I would have been living locally, working in the civil service, and living someone else's life.

 

Now that I've gone, and have found my way and career (going from mass debt to having my best year of business financially, ever) she is still critical. This is where the argumemts always begin. I've done this, this and this for personal development and her opinion is "well, it hasn't worked out great, has it?"

 

Perhaps the key to losing the teen within is to stop caring about her opinion. It won't stop her asking though.

[Rara]

 

You are aware that you have so work to do. That is GREAT! We all have self work, every one of us. We are not here to compete with each other on our awareness or state of enlightenment.

Start with understanding that we must encounter elements that will trigger areas for us to grow. Become gentle with that understanding. Self-Patient.

Meditate on what the root of these triggers. What is it specifically that brings up these hard emotions. (I am speaking of your family dinner of course and your interactions with your Mom.)

Let go of the self-punishment of the guilt you are feeling from the outcome. This can be seen as simple emotional growing pains. On of the Ripoche's from the 70's once said "If you think you are enlightened spend the weekend with your parents."

I laughed when I heard that...because it is true. Our greatest triggers come from our authority figures, or those who pretend they are in authority over you. Our Parents are our greatest nest of Triggers (IMO)

It is an excellent resource of self-work you can do.

Do NOT bury your emotions, but see where they come from, understand the trigger. You may need to find ways to express them in a healthy Manner (The 6 Healing sounds Chi Kung for example combined with Flying Phoenix or Hunyuan healing Motions)

One thing I am personally not comfortable with is communication through Forums though...so much is lost in this form of discussion, so understand that my suggestions must be modified by you with the understanding that I am not experiencing your challenge as you are. I only offer my suggestions as a form of support.

I want you to have the knowledge you are not alone in these experiences and there is no judgement.

Thank you Edited December 29, 2014 by Rara

[Rara]

This is a misunderstanding, Rara. True independence not only comes, but stays for good, when one fully understands the significance of unbinding from the tension of clinging to a self.

 

Being constructive, in the altruistic sense, means the ability to do something of benefit to others while doing something beneficial for the self, or, from another view, to be able to do something beneficial for self which also benefits others. To do this effectively, we have to 'forget' the self, not in the conventional sense of reducing the self to nothing, but in the transcended sense of seeing, and then extending a sort of equalness in the realisation that fundamentally nobody wants to be unhappy, to be hurt, to be cheated on, etc., just as we too desire much the same. This is the Buddhist view of non-self, from one perspective - the ultimate benefit to be derived from this realisation is to uncover one's fundamental good heart. Once you can touch base with this discovery, then you will be able to gradually learn how to act fearlessly in your relationship with others without having to constantly be on your guard, ala building a fence around something non-existent, meaning that brittle, hurtable ego thing. But a lot of people tend to do this, and the amount of energy and attention they put into this exercise prevents them from engaging fully and functionally in the true sense of relating (relationship) with self and others.

Hi C T. I'm sorry but I struggle understanding this school of thought.

[Rara]

Not being attached to the self will not make you emotionless. See it like this: you're covering one eye with your hand, that hand represents the sense of self. To not be attached to a sense of self is just simply moving the hand so that you can see with both eyes. That's the most important. You'll still have your hand and it can come to use to cover your eye again, but a lot of pressure will be removed and you will not place so much stress on things that you previously deemed important because you know the bigger picture now.

Ok, I think I understand. In hindsight, I always see the bigger picture. In the moment...

 

Heat of the moment and all that jazz...

[C T]

Hi C T. I'm sorry but I struggle understanding this school of thought.

Thats ok.. its not for everyone.

[Rara]

Emotionless from a philosophical point of view, it doesn't mean you don't love nor get angry. What it is suggesting is to hold one's poise when angry; one may show compassion at any time or not at all.

Do you find that sometimes people provoke in order to get a reaction out of you, then get mad/upset if you don't?

 

My sister ordered me once to admit that she had the right to be angry about a certain situation. That's what I got for being "emotionless"...

[Brian]

Hi Brian. Absolutely, and I think that teen is still inside me because the nature of me moving away was yo get the hell away. With my mother's guidance, I would have been living locally, working in the civil service, and living someone else's life.

 

Now that I've gone, and have found my way and career (going from mass debt to having my best year of business financially, ever) she is still critical. This is where the argumemts always begin. I've done this, this and this for personal development and her opinion is "well, it hasn't worked out great, has it?"

 

Perhaps the key to losing the teen within is to stop caring about her opinion. It won't stop her asking though.

If a bird bites every time you stick your finger in its cage, stop sticking your finger in its cage. Don't write your mother out of your life; instead, just avoid those topics which you know from experience will provide her a toe-hold. And, when she subsequently manufactures toe-holds of her own, just remember that a leopard can't change its spots -- just enjoy the leopard as it is and be mindful of the sharp parts...

[C T]

The mother is not the real issue here, is it? I mean, Rara has to deal with Rara 24/7, but Rara need not have to 'deal' with his mother 24/7 - so, perhaps its not the leopard that he needs to be mindful of, rather, its his idea of what a leopard really is, and his relationship with that idea now -- if it is not an idea he likes, then maybe learn how to develop a new idea, one which is conducive for his own mental calmness and well-being, no? Its a coward's approach to have the idea that we actually have buttons for others to push when in truth these buttons are simply our own way of dealing with aspects of our own unwholesomeness. First we might want to consider owning up to these in order to grow - after all, this is part of what spiritual maturity is about. I dunno, thats how i see this anyway.

[liminal_luke]

I think a lot of human suffering could be avoided if we all just let go of the notion that parents and children are supposed to get along. Sure, it´s great when it happens. And certainly it´s nice to do whatever personal work we deem necessary to make things go in that direction. Still, the fact is that often times parents and children won´t get along--sometimes no matter how reasonable and responsible said children might act.

 

When we compare our expectation of familial harmony with the holiday reality it´s easy to feel a bit bitter. Better to let go, as hard as that is, and realize that we are all imperfect people sometimes doing the best we can-- and sometimes not doing our best at all.

 

If you feel, Rara, that you´ve been practicing and notice improvements in your life and relationships with others, then why let your mom throw you off course? You might not be able to change your mom. You might not even be able to get along with her, at least not at this moment. But you can take solace knowing you´ve done what made sense to you.

 

Liminal

[idiot_stimpy]

Rara, from my experience, you haven't become more angry, just more dominant. You are less likely to be a victim of circumstances as before.

 

When people try and control you, they meet with your new found dominance.

[Brian]

The mother is not the real issue here, is it? I mean, Rara has to deal with Rara 24/7, but Rara need not have to 'deal' with his mother 24/7 - so, perhaps its not the leopard that he needs to be mindful of, rather, its his idea of what a leopard really is, and his relationship with that idea now -- if it is not an idea he likes, then maybe learn how to develop a new idea, one which is conducive for his own mental calmness and well-being, no? Its a coward's approach to have the idea that we actually have buttons for others to push when in truth these buttons are simply our own way of dealing with aspects of our own unwholesomeness. First we might want to consider owning up to these in order to grow - after all, this is part of what spiritual maturity is about. I dunno, thats how i see this anyway.

Precisely. We create ripples and we interact with ripples created elsewhere. There is value in becoming more aware of those ripples and the resonances between them, and then manifesting our own ripples with intent. Without awareness and intent, we often feel ourselves awash with random crashing waves beyond understanding or control.

[Rara]

 

Nah, it is unbelievably normal.

 

It's a common aspect of manipulators or emotional vampires (not to call your mom names), that they will seem totally cool while they energetically/verbally/emotionally assault you. Don't fall for it.

 

This is not a reason to despise them, but it's just important to know the truth behind appearances. It's also good that you're looking at your cultivation long term, and in every moment.

 

It's a learning process, and is hard work.

Thanks for this, and I know they are more analogies than names

 

Yes, I have work to do, and so does she. At least I know I will follow my own advice.

[Rara]

The mother is not the real issue here, is it? I mean, Rara has to deal with Rara 24/7, but Rara need not have to 'deal' with his mother 24/7 - so, perhaps its not the leopard that he needs to be mindful of, rather, its his idea of what a leopard really is, and his relationship with that idea now -- if it is not an idea he likes, then maybe learn how to develop a new idea, one which is conducive for his own mental calmness and well-being, no? Its a coward's approach to have the idea that we actually have buttons for others to push when in truth these buttons are simply our own way of dealing with aspects of our own unwholesomeness. First we might want to consider owning up to these in order to grow - after all, this is part of what spiritual maturity is about. I dunno, thats how i see this anyway.

I dunno. If anything, I'm pretty sure I made it clear that I knew I had work to do.

 

This doesn't hide the fact that my mum has a sting in her tail. And it does hurt, that's why my sister not only yelled, but also said some harsh things back. Now they don't talk.

 

Thankfully my practice has helped me not to follow that path.

[Brian]

Thanks for this, and I know they are more analogies than names

 

Yes, I have work to do, and so does she. At least I know I will follow my own advice.

Form no attachment to whether she does more work, or even whether she ever recognizes she has work to be done. Your work is your own, and is for its own merit.

[Rara]

I think a lot of human suffering could be avoided if we all just let go of the notion that parents and children are supposed to get along. Sure, it´s great when it happens. And certainly it´s nice to do whatever personal work we deem necessary to make things go in that direction. Still, the fact is that often times parents and children won´t get along--sometimes no matter how reasonable and responsible said children might act.

 

When we compare our expectation of familial harmony with the holiday reality it´s easy to feel a bit bitter. Better to let go, as hard as that is, and realize that we are all imperfect people sometimes doing the best we can-- and sometimes not doing our best at all.

 

If you feel, Rara, that you´ve been practicing and notice improvements in your life and relationships with others, then why let your mom throw you off course? You might not be able to change your mom. You might not even be able to get along with her, at least not at this moment. But you can take solace knowing you´ve done what made sense to you.

 

Liminal

I love this

 

The thing is, one that my mum does like to pull out of the bag, is that this and that is "abnormal". She sits there and talks to me (every time we speak) about how abnormal it is that my Sis won't let her in to her life any more.

 

I know exactly where my Sis is coming from of course, hence the OP, but if I try and describe this to my mum, she will argue against it. And why shouldn't she? Those are her values, as unrealistically utopian as they are.

 

Maybe I should drop my expectatons that my mum will some day pat me on the back. Lao Tzu didn't think much to praise anyway...

[Daeluin]

Why let others take you from your way?

Why even discuss it?

 

When something is discussed, perhaps all participants will work together to preserve balance within the exchange. But often people aren't aware of this and will usually act according to their patterns of give and take. Patterns can get pretty entrenched, especially when two people have known each other for a long time. One person believes X = 2 and X has equalled 2 for 23 years, so darned if it's going to change. Perhaps their entire way of identifying with the world revolves around X = 2. When X no longer equals 2, is that person going to embrace the change or deny it?

 

Since you probably won't avoid the discussion, just flow with it. Let the person think X = whatever they want it to, and let go of trying to get validation from them. If they think you aren't "getting better", be cordial and agreeable. When they see you are dodging their attacks they'll start hitting harder, attempting to create the face-off they are habituated to. You'll likely have an increasingly difficult time holding back the pressure that builds up, and it's only a matter of time before they win. Just remember - all that pressure is YOUR response to them, and it only exists because you STILL WANT THEIR VALIDATION. When you are able to let go of the need for validation, you will have a better time accepting that they still see you how they want to, and it has nothing to do with you, and this is what releases that pressure.

 

Remember, this entrenched pattern is something you're trying to separate from. Letting yourself get sucked into the fight is just accepting the invitation, but your goal is to leave the fight behind. Hard to do when someone else puts you in the ring. But all you need to do just yield, accept, and redirect to emptiness. If she attacks with "you'll never change," counter with "yep probably not", or "it'll be what it'll be," or "I'm glad you think so", or whatever. If she attacks with "oh so now you're just going to patronize me," just counter with more of the same. Attempt to respond to each round with more compassion and less ego. Instead of getting sucked into it even deeper, try to feed it even less energy, lose interest, and see about redirecting the conversation to something more productive - not by force, but when there is an opening.

 

Everything will run its course. When yang culminates yin will arise. So just weather it out the best you can and avoid feeding it more energy, and it'll change sooner. Get over yourself. You've seen beyond this petty game and her words contain no truths in their literal meanings, so stop letting yourself believe and be threatened by them.

[Rara]

Rara, from my experience, you haven't become more angry, just more dominant. You are less likely to be a victim of circumstances as before.

 

When people try and control you, they meet with your new found dominance.

I also wondered whether it was anger or adrenaline. Or passion. There must be a difference...

 

It's not like I stayed "angry" either. We changed subject eventually and we hugged before I left. I just felt sad after.

[skydog]

ok op saw post im gone

Edited December 29, 2014 by skydog

[Daeluin]

Also non-violent communication is basically designed for scenarios like these. Try to see if there are any NVC groups to join where you live - practicing NVC with others is a great way to get familiar with balanced conversations, and is clear evidence you are working towards change. Perhaps she'd like to try it too, but probably not.