Christmas family disagreements, and a realisation

[Rara]

Form no attachment to whether she does more work, or even whether she ever recognizes she has work to be done. Your work is your own, and is for its own merit.

True that.

 

She came to me for advice ages ago about her anxiety of operations next year. I suggested yoga, tai chi and mindfulness meditation at different points. She always finds an excuse to say she can't.

 

It saddens me because I mean the best for her and don't like to see her under such stress. But I have to be careful not to be a snooty meditator to her as well.

[Rara]

Why let others take you from your way?

Why even discuss it?

 

When something is discussed, perhaps all participants will work together to preserve balance within the exchange. But often people aren't aware of this and will usually act according to their patterns of give and take. Patterns can get pretty entrenched, especially when two people have known each other for a long time. One person believes X = 2 and X has equalled 2 for 23 years, so darned if it's going to change. Perhaps their entire way of identifying with the world revolves around X = 2. When X no longer equals 2, is that person going to embrace the change or deny it?

 

Since you probably won't avoid the discussion, just flow with it. Let the person think X = whatever they want it to, and let go of trying to get validation from them. If they think you aren't "getting better", be cordial and agreeable. When they see you are dodging their attacks they'll start hitting harder, attempting to create the face-off they are habituated to. You'll likely have an increasingly difficult time holding back the pressure that builds up, and it's only a matter of time before they win. Just remember - all that pressure is YOUR response to them, and it only exists because you STILL WANT THEIR VALIDATION. When you are able to let go of the need for validation, you will have a better time accepting that they still see you how they want to, and it has nothing to do with you, and this is what releases that pressure.

 

Remember, this entrenched pattern is something you're trying to separate from. Letting yourself get sucked into the fight is just accepting the invitation, but your goal is to leave the fight behind. Hard to do when someone else puts you in the ring. But all you need to do just yield, accept, and redirect to emptiness. If she attacks with "you'll never change," counter with "yep probably not", or "it'll be what it'll be," or "I'm glad you think so", or whatever. If she attacks with "oh so now you're just going to patronize me," just counter with more of the same. Attempt to respond to each round with more compassion and less ego. Instead of getting sucked into it even deeper, try to feed it even less energy, lose interest, and see about redirecting the conversation to something more productive - not by force, but when there is an opening.

 

Everything will run its course. When yang culminates yin will arise. So just weather it out the best you can and avoid feeding it more energy, and it'll change sooner. Get over yourself. You've seen beyond this petty game and her words contain no truths in their literal meanings, so stop letting yourself believe and be threatened by them.

Wow, great martial art analogy.

 

I always wondered why Chuang Tzu was allowed to come across as rude and patronising. I guess he was pushed into quite a few corners himself.

 

No one likes a smart arse...I'll be careful not to resort to sarcasm though.

[C T]

Precisely. We create ripples and we interact with ripples created elsewhere. There is value in becoming more aware of those ripples and the resonances between them, and then manifesting our own ripples with intent. Without awareness and intent, we often feel ourselves awash with random crashing waves beyond understanding or control.

Yes, awareness and intent are both very crucial to insight. Well said.

[Rara]

Also non-violent communication is basically designed for scenarios like these. Try to see if there are any NVC groups to join where you live - practicing NVC with others is a great way to get familiar with balanced conversations, and is clear evidence you are working towards change. Perhaps she'd like to try it too, but probably not.

I will Google that haha. No idea what it is.

[Rara]

ok op saw post im gone

Huh? Did you repost?

 

I believe I responded in some way but I think this is what you're saying lol.

[ChiDragon]

Do you find that sometimes people provoke in order to get a reaction out of you, then get mad/upset if you don't?

 

My sister ordered me once to admit that she had the right to be angry about a certain situation. That's what I got for being "emotionless"...

 

Yes to the former.

 

Well, to the latter. This (Taoist) emotionless is not that emotionless anymore. That emotionless can make your sister happy by hearing your word of approval. However, this (Taoist) emotionless can make yourself calm, inside, by given the reaction out of you to please her, in a subtle way, which caused you no harm. Just remember, everybody has the right to get upset but you also have the right not to get upset. Why? It is because you are in the cultivation to be a Taoist. Perhaps, to be a "true person". You are a new you today rather than the you of yesterday.

 

 

[Rara]

 

Yes to the former.

 

Well, to the latter. This (Taoist) emotionless is not that emotionless anymore. That emotionless can make your sister happy by hearing your word of approval. However, this (Taoist) emotionless can make yourself calm, inside, by given the reaction out of you to please her, in a subtle way, which caused you no harm. Just remember, everybody has the right to get upset but you also have the right not to get upset. Why? It is because you are in the cultivation to be a Taoist. Perhaps, to be a "true person". You are a new you today rather than the you of yesterday.

 

 

So, if she says "admit that I have the right to be angry", I could (or should?) respond with "of course I understand that you are angry"?

 

My usual response is more lecture-like "but there is no need to be angry, it's a waste of time and energy"

 

Well look at that. I'm quite like my mum, aren't I?

Edited December 29, 2014 by Rara

[Daeluin]

Emotions are just signals of our perception... they are very important and help our organs communicate with us. But we don't want to attach to them, we want to acknowledge them and let them go, just like thoughts. This isn't being "emotionless," this a deeper level of communication with ourselves. When we only attach to certain emotions, that's like only acknowledging certain organs and not others, and being full of a particular emotion is not likely to produce an internally balanced result.

[Rara]

Guys, I gotta head off but thanks for all the advice so far. I will return to the forum when I can

[Marblehead]

 

 

Well look at that. I'm quite like my mum, aren't I?

Belly laughs.

[Brian]

Belly laughs.

Funny how that works, eh?

[ChiDragon]

Funny how that works, eh?

That's the abdominal breathing(UMB).

Edited December 29, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Daeluin]

So, if she says "admit that I have the right to be angry", I could (or should?) respond with "of course I understand that you are angry"?

 

My usual response is more lecture-like "but there is no need to be angry, it's a waste of time and energy"

 

Well look at that. I'm quite like my mum, aren't I?

 

Nice!

 

I'd say "I support however you feel you need to be."

Or "of course, you can be whatever you like to be."

[Owledge]

Haven't read the whole thread, but seems like you are blessed with a mother that can give you feedback making you realize you have been kidding yourself. You are very lucky.

My case is quite the opposite. I have been doubting myself so much and unsuccessfully searching for others who could give me valuable enlightening feedback about myself that I eventually had to realize the others are usually the ones who are full of shit.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Owledge

[Brian]

I think Rara might let you borrow his mother....

[johndoe2012]

Haven't read the whole thread, but seems like you are blessed with a mother that can give you feedback making you realize you have been kidding yourself. You are very lucky.

My case is quite the opposite. I have been doubting myself so much and unsuccessfully searching for others who could give me valuable enlightening feedback about myself that I eventually had to realize the others are usually the ones who are full of shit.

Indeed!

 

Don't I know this feeling of self-doubt.

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited January 9, 2015 by chris d

[Rara]

I think Rara might let you borrow his mother....

Rofl

[Rara]

You know my mother and I have had quite some confrontations on the past.

 

It was only after some years of cultivation I could say no with determination to her idiotic behavior.

 

Anyway, everybody has trillions of triggers. Meditation is not enough to clear those in my experience.

I'm sure after some practice I will let you know my two cents on this.

 

Back home and well rested as of last night. Off to the cushion now

[C T]

 

Anyway, everybody has trillions of triggers. Meditation is not enough to clear those in my experience.

I think positive and correct meditative exercises will help to uncover the truth that these 'trillions' of triggers can be reduced to just a handful, but if instead one prefers the view that indeed vast numbers of triggers abound, thinking this way could make the whole exercise of uncovering these causes feel much more exasperating than it actually is, and that might well contribute, to some significant extent, attitudes of helplessness and/or feelings of insurmountable challenges to face on the spiritual road, when in fact this is not the case.

 

In Buddhism its said that there are 84,000 afflictive conditions that beset all the 6 classes of beings, but these all can be narrowed down to just a few major hindrances or obstacles, namely greed, jealousy, pride, hate/anger, delusion, conceit, wrong views, excessive indulgences, slothfulness, aggression, and doubt. From these major conditions arise all other negative karmas. The teachings elaborate further by pointing out that any of these hindrances, when allowed to fester, lead to ignorance, craving and attachment (called the 3 unwholesome roots or 3 poisons), which then give rise to what is known as 'round of defilements' (see: Interdependent Origination).

 

In the context of the Yogacara school of Buddhism, all these major hindrances (kleshas) arise due to the "...reification of an 'imagined self'". By knowing and seeing (thru meditation) what an imagined self is made up of sets the ground for seeing thru the veils of conditioned existence, and in turn, this sets the ground leading to the cessation of suffering.

 

 

 

As an aside, my personal opinion is that we should refrain from looking at our parents in a negative light, especially for spiritual cultivators, no matter how justified we think our view is. If we can rectify our own faults and expand on our limited views, then we can take the better option of seeing all beings equanimously - no matter what, we must try to always acknowledge, value & respect the source of the gift of life in us. Without this, how can we value and respect our own path towards spiritual emancipation?

[Rara]

So, it has dawned on me...

 

1. Not playing the game and not being bothered/attached to the point of getting angry. This I can work on...the triggers are already clear to me. It's about getting what I want, and if I don't - raaaaaage!

 

My counsellor a few years back identified this in me. He also said Hitler was the same. So, back to work!

 

2. However, the law of equivalent exchange. If my mum feels the need to be honest with me (in which I am blessed, yes) then the least I can do it be honest with her (tactfully, where applicable)

[Marblehead]

True compassion is giving while having no expectation of any compensation.

[ThisLife]

.

 

Your well-intentioned post once again raised for me that recurring flaw in the otherwise seemingly watertight system of Buddhist logic. You illustrated it perfectly. Because the clearest explanation is always given from a direct and immediate example, please forgive me for using extracts from your post to show what I mean. I assure you, my intention is not to question your motivation or your obvious sincerity. I use it simply as an illustration for what I find to be an interesting academic point.

 

In a nutshell, if a person makes and truly understands the statement {A} below ... then the truth of {A}, logically makes {B} ... absurd.

 

*

 

{A} In the context of the Yogacara school of Buddhism, all these major hindrances arise due to the "...reification of an 'imagined self.' "

 

{B} If we can rectify our own faults and expand on our limited views, then we can take the better option of seeing all beings equanimously.

 

*

 

In other words, if all our problems stem from believing our 'imagined self' to be real ... then how can this purely imaginary 'thing' choose to do, or not do, certain actions in order to realise that it doesn't really exist ?

 

Has this question never struck you as interesting the way it does me ?

 

.

[Owledge]

1. Not playing the game and not being bothered/attached to the point of getting angry. This I can work on...the triggers are already clear to me. It's about getting what I want, and if I don't - raaaaaage!

 

My counsellor a few years back identified this in me. He also said Hitler was the same. So, back to work!

Ask your consellor whether he/she has read Mein Kampf. If not, I call bullshit, haha.

 

2. However, the law of equivalent exchange. If my mum feels the need to be honest with me (in which I am blessed, yes) then the least I can do it be honest with her (tactfully, where applicable)

I'm watching Fullmetal Alchemist lately and that belief system of equivalent exchange is bothering me a lot, because as far as I understand it is related to the belief that life is a zero sum game. In that way, alchemy might be closer to narrow-minded modern Western science than holistic spiritual observations.

 

That 'law' of equivalent exchange is also a moldable tool, because you can arbitrarily set the boundaries for such an exchange to more immediate or long-term. It can fit whatever you want it to fit.

Instead I suggest not to worry about reciprocity and instead multiplying the good in the world.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Owledge

[Owledge]

As explained in my previous post above

True compassion is giving while having no expectation of any compensation.

Compassion trumps equivalent exchange.

(Although naturally one could always see an equivalence in the act - that's what I'm saying. It's undisprovable.)

Edited December 30, 2014 by Owledge