The Father and Son of Taoist Philosophy

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu continued:

 

 

On Long Life

The emperor went to visit one of his officers and the officer said to him, “Welcome, Sage!  May I offer you some toasts?  I drink to your long life.”

“Please don’t,” said the emperor.

“Then I drink to your wealth.”

“Please don’t,” replied the emperor.

“Then may I wish you many male children?”  The emperor again declined.

“Why, these three things, a long life, wealth and having many male children are desired by everybody,” said the officer. “Why are you an exception?”

“To have many male children is to have many worries,” replied the emperor.  “To have wealth is to be occupied with many affairs.  To have long life is to live to see many humiliations. All these three things are not conducive to the development of one’s Character.  That is why I have declined.”

“I thought you were a Sage,” said the officer, “but now I know you are only a gentleman.  Since people are created, there must be something for each one to do.  If you have many sons, let each find something to do.  Why should you let that worry you?  If you have a lot of money, share it with others. Then what business will you have to attend to?  A Sage lives like a partridge, without a constant adobe, and he eats like a young bird; contented with what the mother bird gives him.  He goes about like a bird without definite distinction and does not declare himself.  When the world is in order, he prospers along with all things, and when the world is in chaos, he cultivates his Character and leads a leisurely life.  After a thousand years, when he is bored with this earthly life, he becomes a fairy.  Riding upon white clouds, he arrives at the Mother’s adobe.  The three kinds of trouble cannot reach him and he is preserved from harm.  How can he suffer from humiliation?”

Saying this, the officer left.  The emperor followed him and said, “May I talk to you?”


(It may be noted that following the Taoist notion of taking things as they come, a follower should not reject even wealth.)
 

[gatito]

d and b seem to have been transposed a couple of times.

[Marblehead]

d and b seem to have been transposed a couple of times.

But then you may need new glasses.

[gatito]

Nah!

 

But perhaps I should have disclosed that I'm slightly dyslexic when I posted that comment?

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu furthermore said:

 

 

The Skull

The Sage was traveling to the city when he saw an empty skull with a sharp contour by the side of the road.  He asked, “How did you come to this?  Did you live an extravagant life and abuse your constitution?  Were you a condemned criminal and killed by the executioner?  Did you do something wrong which shamed your parents and your wife and children and commit suicide?  Or did you die of hunger and  starvation?  Or did you live to an old age and die a natural death?”

After saying this, he took the skull and used it as a pillow and lay down to sleep.  At midnight, the skull appeared to him in a dream, and said to him, “You talked like a pedant.  What you mentioned are the troubles of mortal life.  When one dies, one does not have such troubles.  Do you want to hear about life after death?”

“Yes,” replied the Sage.

“In death,” said the skull, “there are no kings and no subjects and no changes of seasons.  One is completely free, regarding Heaven and Earth as spring and autumn.  Such happiness exceeds even that of a king.”

The Sage would not believe him and said, “If I asked the controller of life to restore your body, give you bones and flesh and skin, return you to your parents and family and let all your neighborhood know about it, would you like it?”

The skull knitted its brows and deepened its eyes and said, “How can I exchange the happiness of a king for the troubles of the mortal world?”
 

[Stosh]

So ,is the last line indicated to be read as ironic? Or rhetorical.

[Marblehead]

So ,is the last line indicated to be read as ironic? Or rhetorical.

Yes.

[Stosh]

Pick one smartypants.

[Marblehead]

Pick one smartypants.

Sorry.  Hehehe.

 

Probably more rhetorical.  From the story line:  Why would one want to return to a life of involvement when one has found peace and contentment?

[Stosh]

This particular passage then reads very anomalous to me. It stands out contrastingly to the idea of returning to the amorphous...or the origin for that matter. .....since the skull does not ask ,Why, but rather How, and already chose tail dragging in the mud over status position. If daoists were looking for eternal life, that which may seem a no brainer, isnt so simple. And if they claimed to be able to do that then who is the skull? Relatively speaking, to hearing from a sage.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

What can I say?  Before we were born there was peace and contentment.  After we die there is peace and contentment.  Full cycle with physical life between the two.

[Stosh]

What can I say?  Before we were born there was peace and contentment.  After we die there is peace and contentment.  Full cycle with physical life between the two.

You could say that you prefer life with all it brings ,however crazy it might seem.

[Marblehead]

You could say that you prefer life with all it brings ,however crazy it might seem.

Yeah, both Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu spoke of living in a manner that would insure a long life.  However, Chuang Tzu thought often of life without a physical body and even Lao Tzu hinted at this once.

 

So yes, our physical life is preferable, regardless of what life throws at us.  I have no idea what happens when we die.  The skull seems to have found peace and contentment.

[rene]

I think it's possible to simultaneously prefer all the experiences of life AND look forward to the long dirt nap... when it comes. Must be possible, lol, since that's what I do. (-:

[Marblehead]

I think it's possible to simultaneously prefer all the experiences of life AND look forward to the long dirt nap... when it comes. Must be possible, lol, since that's what I do. (-:

Yeah.  Since it happens it must be possible.  But that's possible, isn't it, only after one has lost their fear of death?

[rene]

Yeah.  Since it happens it must be possible.  But that's possible, isn't it, only after one has lost their fear of death?

 

That could be! I dont fear death yet had not considered that to be a precursor for this... but it does make sense, sure. I wonder what else would need to be in place... to end the either/or thinking of having to choose between preferences or acceptance. Guess I'm still thinking about Stosh's whacked baby seals. LOL  Maybe LZs or ZZs next words will shed light on it.(-:

 

p.s...I read the last line of the last chunk as rhetorical, but either way doesn't reflect a blended perspective, imo.

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu continued:

 

 

The Sage And The Skull

When traveling one day, a Sage stopped to eat at the roadside, and his eyes fell upon a skull nearly a hundred years old.  Clearing away the brambles, he addressed it as follows, “Only you and I know that there is no such thing as life and death.  Are you really the wretch, and am I the fortunate one?  A seed develops according to the circumstances of time and place in which it finds itself.  When it finds water, it becomes a living organism.”
 

[Stosh]

@rene,Sorry for embedding the baby seal idea like that. This second passage too, to me has the the same dubious attitude about the life death issue. He ASKS, is life is the fortunate situation. I find this very relatable, its honest. Its the kind of approach that the old and wise , that folks who have been face to face with it, often ,I think ,come to. We pile up there ,like salmon at a hurdle......yknow, even though those salmon are on a one way mission they accept and exert themselves to, they still scoot from the bears paws. So this ,half logical stance, the dubious conclusion, mixed bag attitude, is not only plausible , but for some it may be archetypal.

[rene]

For some, yes. For me, without hesitation, yes. I was born to it and it has served me well.
 

[Stosh]

Gracious as ever, Ill let you and Gatito go first.

[gatito]

Gracious as ever, Ill let you and Gatito go first.

 

Ladies (and gentlemen) before hobbits..

 

[Stosh]

True class doesnt adhere to formalities, you go right ahead.

[rene]

Well Hell! I'll go! LOLOL
 

 
Must I fear what others fear?? What nonsense!!
 
(-:

[Stosh]

Send us a postcard Luv.

[rene]