The Father and Son of Taoist Philosophy

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu replied:

 

 

On The Futility Of Treaties

To make a peace settlement which is unjust will result only in an unpeaceful peace.  To pledge faith with the faithless will result only in a faithless pledge.  The clever people become lost in their own desires, while the divine man can go straight to the truth.  It has long been established that the clever people cannot pitch themselves against the spiritual man, but the fools stick to their prejudices and are submerged in the events of the day.  As a result, all their accomplishments concern the external details.  Is this not sad indeed?
 

[Marblehead]

After a few minutes of silence Lao Tzu said:

 

 

The Way Of Heaven Is To Benefit


Sincere words need not be showy;
Showy words are not necessarily sincere.

True words need not be fine-sounding;
Fine-sounding words are not necessarily true.

The Sage accumulates nothing;
Having used what he had for others,
He grows richer himself.
Having given what he had to others,
What he has is even greater.

Therefore,
The way of Heaven is to benefit and not cause any harm;
The way of men is to act on behalf of themselves.
The way of the Sage accomplishes,
But does not contend.
 

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu responded:

 

 

He Gives To Other People

The pure man’s soul goes through high mountains without hindrance and through a deep spring without getting wet, and he lives on low grounds without getting sick.  His soul fills the whole Universe.  He gives to other people, and has greater abundance.
 

[Marblehead]

And then Chuang Tzu continued with:

 

 

Where Can I Find A Man Who Forgets About Words?

A bait is used to catch fish.  When you have gotten the fish, you can forget about the bait.  A rabbit trap is used to catch rabbits.  When the rabbits are caught, you can forget about the trap.  Words are used to express meaning.  When you understand the meaning, you can forget about the words.  Where can I find a man who forgets about words to talk with him?  For the learned is not necessarily wise, and the good talker is not necessarily clever.

There are some things that you can talk about, and some things that you appreciate with your heart.  The more you talk, the further away you get from the meaning.
 

[Stosh]

sly dog. 

[mostly_empty]

And then Chuang Tzu continued with:

...

 

Where can I find a man who forgets about words to talk with him?  For the learned is not necessarily wise, and the good talker is not necessarily clever.

 

There are some things that you can talk about, and some things that you appreciate with your heart.  The more you talk, the further away you get from the meaning.

 

 

Absolutely... I am not particularly learned and definitely not wise; but if sages such as those of the OP and Daobums did not help I would know even less. And I am sure that they used words to help me along my way. So I take this paradoxical Wittgensteinian warning to not take Chuang Tzu's words too seriously but hope that a better sage will tell me to _which_ words I should attach my heart.

[Marblehead]

When all fell silent again Lao Tzu said:

 

 

Know The Ancient Beginnings


Hold on to the Tao of the present
To manage the things of the present,
And to know the ancient beginning.
This is called
“The beginning of the thread of the Tao.”
 

[Marblehead]

And that reminded Chuang Tzu of something, a short story, really, but the long version is so much more interesting.

 

So he began:

 

 

How Knowledge And Philosophy Corrupted The Nature Of Man

Those who rely upon the arc, the line, compasses, and the square to make correct forms injure the natural constitution of things.  Those who use cords to bind and glue to piece together interfere with the natural character of things.  Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting humanity and justice have lost the original nature of man.

There is an original nature of things.  Things in their original nature are curved without the help of arcs, straight without lines, round without compasses, and rectangular without squares; they are joined together without glue, and hold together without cords.  In this manner all things grow with abundant life, without knowing how they do so.  They all have a place in the scheme of things without knowing how they come to have their proper place.  From time immemorial this has been so, and it may not be tampered with.  Why then should the doctrines of humanity and justice continue to remain like so much glue and cords to give rise to confusion and doubt among mankind?

The lesser doubts change man’s purpose, and the greater doubts change man’s nature.  How do we know this?  Ever since the time when the rulers made a bid for humanity and justice and threw the world into confusion, men have run about and exhausted themselves in the pursuit thereof.  Is it not then humanity and justice which have changed the nature of man?

People with extravagant keenness of vision put into confusion the five colors, lose themselves in the forms and designs, and in the distinctions of greens and yellows for sacrificial robes.  Is this not so?  People with excessive keenness of hearing put into confusion the five notes, exaggerate the tonic differences of the six pitch-pipes, and the various timbres of metal, stone, string, and bamboo.  People who abnormally develop humanity, exalt character and suppress nature in order to gain a reputation, make the world noisy with their discussions and cause it to follow impractical doctrines.  People who commit excess in arguments, like piling up bricks and tying knots, analyzing and inquiring into the distinctions of hard and white, identities and differences, were themselves out over vain, useless terms.  All these are needless and devious growths of knowledge and are not the correct guide for the world.

He who would be the ultimate guide of the world should take care to preserve the original nature of man.  Therefore, with him, the united is not like joined toes, the separated is not like extra fingers, what is long in not considered as excess, and what is short is not regarded as wanting.  For duck’s legs, though short, cannot be lengthened without dismay to the duck, and a crane’s legs, though long, cannot be shortened without misery to the crane.  That which is long in Nature must not be cut off, and that which is short in Nature must not be lengthened.  One should not worry about changing them.

It would seem that humanity and justice were not part of the nature of man!  How worried these teachers of charity are!  Now the charitable men of the present age go about with a look of concern, sorrowing over the ills of the age, while the non-charitable let loose the desires of their nature in their greed for position and wealth.  Therefore it would seem that humanity and justice were not a part of human nature!
 

[canacan]

I think that one, though in the Zhuang Zi, isn't actually from Zhuang Zi himself, but from a follower, long after his death. The style is very different, the idea is somewhat different and to be honest it is a bit crude, if not silly. It smells like political agenda, which is quite ironical within the Zhuang Zi.

Edited September 30, 2015 by canacan

[Stosh]

You did notice that there's 559 posts , right? 

[Marblehead]

You did notice that there's 559 posts , right? 

Yes, and I am anticipating a lot more.

 

Actually, that last comment from Chuang Tzu was the end of another section.  What follows is within a section I titled "Te (Virtue) Towards Oneself - The results"

 

Although I have tried to keep discussions of the posts to a minimum I will happily discuss any of the posts or comments after the entire series is complete.

[Marblehead]

After a short break and listening to the external chatter Lao Tzu said:

 

 

How Great The Difference


Agreement and angry rejection;
How great is the difference between them?

Beautiful and ugly;
What’s it like;
The difference between them?

Between “good” and “evil”;
How much difference is there?

The one who is feared by others,
Must also, because of this,
Fear other men.
Wild, unrestrained!
It will never come to an end!
That which men fear
is indeed to be feared;
For, alas, distant yet is the dawn of awakening!
 

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu responded:

 

 

On The Practice Of Kindness And Humanity

The Sage met one of his disciples who was the teacher of the Emperor, and asked him, “Where are you going?”
“I’m running away from the Emperor.”
“What do you mean?” asked the Sage.

“The Emperor is so anxious to practice kindness and humanity,” replied the disciple, “I am afraid he is going to be the laughing-stock of future generations.  Centuries from now, we are going to see cannibalism.  It is not difficult to get the people to live peacefully with one another.  If you are kind to them, they will be close to you, and if you rule for their benefit, then they come.  When you encourage them, they all like to do good, and if you force what is hateful on them, then they disperse.  Those who can forget about humanity and justice are few and those who exploit the virtues of humanity and justice are many.  When the doctrines of humanity and justice prevail, hypocrisy follows.  Then we resort to devices to induce the people to do good, and it becomes possible for one man to decide and impose on the world what it regards as desirable, which in effect is like surveying a given situation with one wink of the eye. The Emperor knows what good the wise man can do to the world, but he does not realize what harm he can do.  Before his reign the people did right without inducement or reward, and they avoided the path of evil without threat of punishment.  Now he has started promotions and punishments and the people have lost their natural humanity.  Henceforth, man’s Character declines and punishments are instituted.  This is going to be the beginning of world chaos.”
 

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu continued:

 

 

Prejudices Result In Hypocrisy

Humanity and righteousness are principles of human nature.  Human nature undergoes changes and is different past and present.  If one takes a temporary adobe in a thing and then moves on, he will see the reality of things.  If, however, he stops and is confined to one place, he will develop prejudices.  Prejudices will result in hypocrisy, and hypocrisy will result in many reproaches.
 

[Marblehead]

After a short pause Lao Tzu said:

 

 

The Sage Regards Things As Difficult


Regard the small as large and the few as many,
And repay resentment with kindness.
Plan for the difficult while it is easy;
Act on the large while it is minute.
The most difficult things in the world
Begin as things that are easy;
The largest things in the world
Arise from the minute.
Therefore the Sage, to the end,
Does not strive to do the great
And as a result he is able to accomplish the great.

Those who too lightly agree
Will necessarily be trusted by few.

He who lightly makes a promise
Will find it often hard to keep his pledge.
Those who regard many things as easy
Will necessarily end up with many difficulties.

Therefore, the Sage regards things as difficult,
And as a result he has no difficulty.

Whether it is big or small, many or few,
Requite hatred with Virtue.

Deal with the difficult while yet it is easy;
Deal with the big while yet it is small.


The difficult problems of the world
Must be dealt with while they are yet easy;
The great problems of the world
Must be dealt with while they are yet small.
Therefore, by never dealing with great problems,
The Sage accomplishes greatness.
 

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu thought for a moment then replied with:

 

 

Requite Evil With Virtue

To be insulted and not feel angry is the mark of one who has identified himself with the natural scheme of things.
 

[Marblehead]

Both had fallen to sleep and nothing was said yesterday.  Finally, after waking, having breakfast and returning to the riverside Lao Tzu said:

 

 

Guard Against Being Over-Full


If you take muddy water and still it,
It gradually becomes clear.

If you grab hold of something in order to move it,
It gradually comes alive.
He who embraces the Tao
Guards against being over-full (conceited).
Because he guards against being over-full,
He is beyond wearing out and renewal.

(Because the eternal principle of life, Tao, works silently and without action in the way that spring comes round every year, because Tao does not claim credit for its individual acts and is content to be silent, it becomes the image for the Taoist Sage.)
 

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu remained silent.  Either he wasn't fully awake yet or he just didn't have anything to say in response to Lao Tzu's comment.

[Marblehead]

After a while Lao Tzu said:

 

 

With Much You’ll Be Confused


Bent over, you’ll be made upright;
Twisted, you’ll be straightened;
Hollowed out, you’ll be made full;
Worn out, you’ll be renewed;
With little, you’ll attain much;
With much, you’ll be confused.
 

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu, now being fully awake, replied:

 

 

Those Who Understand Life

Those who understand life do not occupy themselves with things that are of no benefit to life.  Those who understand destiny do not occupy themselves with what cannot be helped in the realm of knowledge.  One depends on material means to strengthen the body, but there are plenty of people who have more than enough of the material means and yet whose bodies are not strong.  One cannot live without taking care of the body, yet there are plenty of people who do take care of their bodies and lose their lives.  Alas!  We have no control over death.  The people of this world think that they can preserve their lives by taking care of their bodies, but if they cannot preserve their lives by taking care of their bodies, then what are they so busy about? To attend to things which are not worth attending to but which have to be attended to is no escape.  Those who wish to escape living for their bodies should not attend to business affairs.  Those who do not attend to business affairs have no entanglements.  Disentanglement means calm and repose; calm and repose means the beginning of the new life, and when one begins a new life, he comes near to Tao.

Business affairs are not worth attending to and this life is not worth worrying about.  By forsaking business affairs, one’s body is relieved from worry, and by abandoning life, one’s soul is preserved whole.  When a man’s body is at ease, and his soul is recovered, he becomes One with Heaven.  The Tao is the Mother of the Universe, the Universe is the mother of the things of Heaven and Earth.  When the Spirit is united with matter, the body is formed; when the Spirit departs, it returns to the origin of things.
 

[Marblehead]

Lao Tzu thought for a while and then said:

 

 

All Excess Life Is Ill-Omened


A man endowed with plentiful Te
Is comparable to a newborn infant.
Poisonous insects will not sting him,
Wild animals will not seize him in their claws,
Birds of prey will not carry him off in their talons.
His bones are weak,
His sinews supple,
But his grasp is firm.
He knows nothing about the union of the sexes,
Yet his little penis stands on end;
What perfect concentration of spermatic energy!
He can scream all day without getting hoarse;
What perfection of harmony!

He who knows harmony is permanent.
To know harmony is called “the constant”;
To know the constant is called “being wise”.
To be excessive with life is called a “bad omen”.
When the mind is used to control the breath
It makes it rigid;
That’s called “forcing things”.
Forcing things would be against Tao
And he who is against Tao perishes young.
 

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu responded:

 

 

On Traveling Outwardly

When traveling outwardly, we seek in things that which we lack; by means of inward contemplation, we find satisfaction within ourselves.  This second way of traveling is the perfect one, the other is imperfect.  The perfect traveler does not know where he is going; the perfect contemplator does not know what he has before his eyes.
 

[Jeff]

And Chuang Tzu responded:

 

 

On Traveling Outwardly

When traveling outwardly, we seek in things that which we lack; by means of inward contemplation, we find satisfaction within ourselves.  This second way of traveling is the perfect one, the other is imperfect.  The perfect traveler does not know where he is going; the perfect contemplator does not know what he has before his eyes.

 

 

I would add that the truly wise know that the inside and the outside are the same...

[Marblehead]

Feeling wordy, Chuang Tzu continued:

 

 

The Fighting Cock

​

The King had in his service a trainer of fighting cocks who had an excellent talent. He was training a fine bird. The King kept asking if the bird was ready for combat.

 

"No yet," said the trainer. "He is full of fire. He is ready to pick a fight with every other bird. He is vain and too confident of his own strength."

 

After ten days, he answered again, "Not yet. He flares up when he hears another bird crow."

 

After ten more days, "Not yet. He sets that angry look and ruffles his feathers."

 

Again ten days and the trainer said, "Now he is nearly ready. When another bird crows, his eye does not even flicker. He stands immobile, like a cock of wood. He is a mature fighter. His Character is whole. No other cock will dare to fight him but will run away at first sight."

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu continued with:

 

 

The New-Born Calf:  The Art Of Concentration

“Keep correct your form, concentrate your vision, and the Heavenly harmony will come to you.  Control your mind, concentrate your thinking, and the Spirit will come to reside in you.  Te shall be your clothing and Tao shall be your shelter.  You will stare blankly like a new-born calf and will not try to find out the reason.”