The Father and Son of Taoist Philosophy

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu furthermore said:

 

 

The Woodcarver

The master carver made a bell stand of precious wood.  When it was finished, all who saw it were astonished.  They said it must be the work of the spirits.  The Prince said to the master carver, “What is your secret?”

The carver replied, “I am only a workman.  I have no secret.  There is only this.  When I began to think about the work you commanded I guarded my soul, I did not expend it on trifles that were not to the point.  I fasted in order to set my heart at rest.  After three days fasting, I had forgotten gain and success.  After five days I had forgotten praise or criticism.  After seven days I had forgotten my body with all its limbs.

“By this time all thought of Your Highness and of the court had faded away.  All that might distract me from the work had vanished.  I was collected in the single thought of the bell stand.

“Then I went to the forest to see the trees in their own natural state.  When the right tree appeared before my eyes, the bell stand also appeared in it, clearly; beyond doubt.  All I had to do was to put forth my hand and begin.  If I had not met this particular tree there would have been no bell stand at all.

“What happened?  My own collected thought encountered the hidden potential in the wood; from this live encounter came the work which you ascribe to the spirits.”
 

[Marblehead]

After that both sat quietly for a while.

 

Eventually Lao Tzu said:

 

 

Of The Best Rulers


Of the best rulers
The people only know that they exist;
The next best they love and praise;
The next they fear;
And the next they revile.

When the rulers do not command the people’s faith,
The people will lose faith in the rulers,
And then they resort to oaths!
But of the best,
When their task is accomplished,
Their work done,
The people all remark,
“We have done it ourselves.”

Whoever claims the right to rule over the people
Must submit to the people;
Whoever claims to guide them
Must follow them.
Thus the Holy Man dominates
Without making the people bend beneath his weight;
He guides
Without making the people suffer any harm.
 

Edited December 1, 2015 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu thought for a moment then said:

 

 

On The Best Type Of Ruler

“Suppose there is a man here,” asked a disciple of the Sage, “who is strong and determined, who has insight and understanding of things and events, and follows Tao diligently.  Shall such a one be comparable to a wise ruler?”

“In comparison to the wise ruler, such a man is like a good clerk or a technical expert,” said the Sage.  “The proverb says, ‘Tigers and leopards are hunted for their skins, the ape is captured for his agility, and the hound is put under leash because of his ability to worry foxes.’  How can such a person be compared to a wise ruler?”

The disciple knitted his brows and said, “Can you enlighten me on the kind of government by the wise ruler?”

“In the government by the wise ruler,” said the Sage, “its effect is over the entire nation, yet it appears not to stem from him.  He changes and influences all things, and the people are not dependent on him.  His influence is there, but you cannot put your finger on it, and everybody is pleased with himself.  The wise ruler is one who stands on the fathomless and roams in the sphere of not-being.”
 

[Marblehead]

After a moment Chuang Tzu added:

 

 

The Need For Rulers

When a thousand people gather together with no one as their leader, they may be either unruly and disorganized or they may be well disciplined and work for the common good.  Therefore when there are many virtuous people, there should not be many rulers (government officials), but when there are few virtuous people, there should be rulers.  This is the principle of Heaven and man and the most proper thing to do.
 

[Marblehead]

They paused to watch a boat flowing with the flow down the river.

 

After a while Lao Tzu said:

 

 

Hold On To The Great Image

Offer good things to eat and the wayfarer stays.
Hold on to the Great Image
And the whole world will come to you.
Come to you and suffer no harm;
But rather know great safety and peace.
 

Edited December 3, 2015 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu quickly replied:

 

 

Peace Through Holding The Tao

“The perfect man goes about unknown in the world, and meets no obstacles,” spoke a disciple to his master.  “He steps on fire without feeling its heat, and walks upon great heights without fear.  How is he able to do that?”

“That comes from perfect concentration of the soul with Spirit,” replied the Sage.  “It belongs entirely in a different order from human cunning and physical courage.  Let me tell you.  All those which have sound, color and appearance are material things.  One material thing cannot be very far from another material thing, and one cannot reach from it to the non-sensuous world.  However, things are created out of the formless and return to the changeless.  Who holds Tao and pursues its study steadily cannot be hindered by material things.  A drunken man falls from a carriage, and though he may be hurt, it is usually not fatal.  His bones are the same as those of other men, but he does not suffer the same injuries because his soul is whole.  He is neither aware of riding in a carriage, nor of falling from it.  Life and death, worries and fears, do not trouble his breast; therefore he meets obstacles without fear.  If even he who achieves wholeness of soul through wine can do this, how much easier it is for one who has achieved that wholeness of soul through Nature!

“The Sage takes shelter in Nature; therefore he is above all harm.  The avenger does not wreak his vengeance on the sword and shield of his enemy.  Even the most spiteful man does not bear a grudge against the falling tile which happens to hit him.  The world lives at peace when it follows the Tao and the ravages of war are unknown.  Do not develop the nature which is of man, but develop the nature which is of Tao.  From the development of that which is of man, harm follows.  If the people keep to that which is of Tao persistently and do not neglect that which is of man, they may come near to realizing their purity.
 

[Jeff]

Chuang Tzu quickly replied:

 

Peace Through Holding The Tao

“The perfect man goes about unknown in the world, and meets no obstacles,” spoke a disciple to his master.  “He steps on fire without feeling its heat, and walks upon great heights without fear.  How is he able to do that?”

“That comes from perfect concentration of the soul with Spirit,” replied the Sage.  “It belongs entirely in a different order from human cunning and physical courage.  Let me tell you.  All those which have sound, color and appearance are material things.  One material thing cannot be very far from another material thing, and one cannot reach from it to the non-sensuous world.  However, things are created out of the formless and return to the changeless.  Who holds Tao and pursues its study steadily cannot be hindered by material things.  A drunken man falls from a carriage, and though he may be hurt, it is usually not fatal.  His bones are the same as those of other men, but he does not suffer the same injuries because his soul is whole.  He is neither aware of riding in a carriage, nor of falling from it.  Life and death, worries and fears, do not trouble his breast; therefore he meets obstacles without fear.  If even he who achieves wholeness of soul through wine can do this, how much easier it is for one who has achieved that wholeness of soul through Nature!

“The Sage takes shelter in Nature; therefore he is above all harm.  The avenger does not wreak his vengeance on the sword and shield of his enemy.  Even the most spiteful man does not bear a grudge against the falling tile which happens to hit him.  The world lives at peace when it follows the Tao and the ravages of war are unknown.  Do not develop the nature which is of man, but develop the nature which is of Tao.  From the development of that which is of man, harm follows.  If the people keep to that which is of Tao persistently and do not neglect that which is of man, they may come near to realizing their purity.

 

 

Excellent! Worth repeating.

 

Thank you

[Marblehead]

There was silence for a moment then Chuang Tzu added:

 

 

Temper Knowledge With Mildness

The ancients who practiced the Tao strengthened their knowledge by mildness.  To strengthen one’s knowledge by mildness means that one realizes one has to live in the material world, but does not depend on the cunning of the mind.  When knowledge and the love of mildness strengthen each other, then the peaceable temperament is brought out from man’s nature.
 

[Marblehead]

More silence then Lao Tzu said:

 

 

The Sage Is Hesitant, Undecided


The Sage is hesitant, undecided!
Like this is his respect for speaking.
He completes his tasks and finishes his affairs,
Yet the common people say,
“These things all happened by Nature.”

When trust is insufficient,
There will be no trust in return.

Therefore,
When the Great Tao is rejected,
It is then that we have humanity and righteousness;
When knowledge and wisdom appear,
It is then that there is great hypocrisy;
When the six relations are not in harmony,
It is then that we have filial piety and compassion;
And when the country is in chaos and confusion,
It is then that there are virtuous officials.

Banish wisdom, discard knowledge,
And the people will benefit a hundredfold.
Banish humanheartedness, discard righteousness,
And the people will return to true familial virtues.
Banish ingenuity, discard profit,
And there will be no more thieves and brigands.
Be without false adornments,
Preserve inborn simplicity,
Lessen selfishness and desire,
And banish knowledge
In order to live a carefree life.

When people abandon the Tao,
They resort to Te;
When they abandon Te,
They resort to humanheartedness;
When they abandon humanheartedness,
They resort to righteousness;
When they abandon righteousness,
They resort to rites.
The rites are a mere husk of loyalty and faith
And the beginning of anarchy.
Foreknowledge is merely the glitter of the Tao
And the beginning of folly.
Hence,
A man worthy of the name of “Sage”
Chooses the solid and not the flimsy,
The gem and not the glitter.
 

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu thought for a moment then said:

 

 

On Ceremonies

The ceremonies of ancient time were intended to meet the needs of the time.  When the time has past and the ceremonies are still not cast away, they become an evil influence to the people and serve to hasten the start of affectations and imitation.

This is why the Holy Man freely dispenses a teaching without words.  The Tao does not appear on command; Virtue is not acquired at will.  It is possible to practice benevolence or fall into righteousness and the rites, which is going from one sham to another.  This is why it is written, ‘When the Tao falls into disuse, Virtue arises; when Virtue falls into disuse, humanheartedness arises; when humanheartedness falls into disuse, righteousness arises; when righteousness falls into disuse, ritualism arises.’  The rites are but the glitter of the Tao and the beginning of anarchy.

This is why it is said, ‘He who practices the Tao diminishes his glitter every day.  By diminishing and diminishing he attains the state of inaction; in this state of inaction, there is nothing he cannot do.’  That which has already attained the state of being; how difficult it is for it to go back to its root; to the Tao.  It is easy for the Great Man alone.  Life is the companion of death and death is the companion of life, but who knows their law?  The life of a man is merely gathered breath.  When it is gathered, there is life; when it disperses, there is death.  Since life and death are each other’s companion, why worry about them?  All creatures are one.  The life the common people love seems like marvelous vitality to them; the death they hate, foul putrefaction.  However, this putrefaction turns back into vitality, and vitality turns back into putrefaction.  This is why we should say, ‘In this world, there is one and only one breath of life, and the Holy Man venerates that One.’
 

[Marblehead]

After a short pause Chuang Tzu continued:

 

 

Man’s Nature In Motion

Action is man’s nature in motion.  When man’s actions are false, it is called the loss of Tao.
 

[Marblehead]

Lao tzu was expecting more from Chuang Tzu so he remained silent.

 

After a while Chuang Tzu said:

 

 

On Filial Piety

There was a man who lived near the gate of the city.  When his parents died, he was rewarded with an office because in his great show of filial piety he disfigured himself.  Because of that, many people in their town tried to follow his example when their parents died and half of them perished; the others were not promoted.
 

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu took a deep breath and continued:

 

 

The Origin Of Hypocrisy

Beyond the limits of the world the Holy Man exists, yet does not theorize; within the limits of the world, the Holy Man theorizes yet does not criticize.  

You want to discriminate?  Some things cannot be discriminated among.  You want to argue?  Some things cannot be argued about.  So what is to be done?  The Holy Man embraces everything.

People who argue do so for show.  That is why it is  said, “When you argue, there are some things you are failing to see.”  In the greatest Tao, nothing is named; in the greatest disputation, nothing is said; greatest benevolence is not benevolent; greatest humility is not humble; greatest bravery is not aggressive.  If the Tao turns to brilliance, it is no longer the Tao; if speech turns to disputation, it no longer achieves its aim; if benevolence becomes a habit, it is no longer perfect; if humility turns into affectation, it is hypocrisy; if bravery turns to aggression, it ceases to prevail.

These five qualities degenerate from universality into pettiness; therefore the best thing is to stop within the scope of cognition.  Who knows how to employ disputation without words, the Tao without name?  He who could do so would possess a Heavenly treasury.  Pour into it and it is never full, dip from it and it never runs dry; yet no one would know where this wealth came from.  This is what is called the Restrained Light.
 

[Marblehead]

And with his last breath (figurative, not literal) Chuang Tzu said:

 

 

Flight From Benevolence

The teacher of the Emperor was met by a friend as he was leaving the capital city on the main highway leading to the nearest frontier.

“Where are you going?” the friend asked.

“I am leaving the Emperor.  He is so obsessed with the ideas of benevolence that I am afraid something ridiculous will come of it.  In any event, funny or not, this kind of thing eventually ends with people eating each other raw.

“At the moment, there is a great wave of solidarity.  The people think they are loved, and they respond with enthusiasm.  They are all behind the emperor because they think he is making them rich.  Praise is cheap, and they are all competing for favor.  But soon they will have to accept something they do not like and the whole thing will collapse.

“When justice and benevolence are in the air, a few people are really concerned with the good of others, but the majority are aware that this is a good thing, ripe for exploitation.  They take advantage of the situation.  For them, benevolence and justice are traps to catch birds.  Thus benevolence and justice rapidly come to be associated with fraud and hypocrisy.  Then everybody doubts.  And that is when trouble really begins.

“The Emperor knows how dutiful and upright officers benefit the nation, but he does not know what harm comes from their uprightness.  They are a front behind which crooks operate more securely.  But you have to see this situation objectively to realize it.

“There are three classes of people to be taken into account:  Yes-men, blood-suckers, and operators.

“The yes-men adopt the line of some political leader, and repeat his statements by heart, imagining that they know something, and are thoroughly satisfied with the sound of their own voices.  They are complete fools.  And because they are fools, they submit in this way to another man’s line of talk.

“The blood-suckers are like lice on a sow.  They rush together where the bristles are thin, and this becomes their palace and their park.  They delight in crevices, between the sow’s toes, around the joints and teats, or under the tail.  Here they entrench themselves and imagine they cannot be routed out by any power in the world.  But they do not realize that one morning the butcher will come with knife and swinging scythe.  He will collect dry straw and set it alight to singe away the bristles and burn out all the lice.  Such parasites appear when the sow appears and vanish when the sow is slaughtered.

“Operators are like the Duke.  Mutton is not attracted to ants, but ants are attracted to mutton, because it is high and rank.  So the Duke was a vigorous and successful operator, and people liked him for it.  Three times he moved from city to city and each time his new home became the capital.  Eventually he moved out into the wilderness and there were a hundred thousand families that went with him to colonize the place.

“Finally, the Emperor put forward the idea that the Duke ought to go out into the desert to see if he could make something out of that.  Though by this time the Duke was an old man and his mind was getting feeble, he could not refuse.  He could not bring himself to retire.  He had forgotten how to stop his wagon.  He was an operator; and nothing else!

“The spiritual man, on the other hand, hates to see people gather around him.  He avoids the crowd.  For where there are many men, there are also many opinions and little agreements.  There is nothing to be gained from the support of a lot of half-wits who are doomed to end up in a fight with each other.

“The spiritual man is neither very intimate with anyone, nor very aloof.  He keeps himself interiorly aware, and he maintains his balance so that he is in conflict with nobody.  This is your true man!  He lets the ants be clever.  He lets the mutton reek with activity.  For his own part, he imitates the fish that swims unconcerned, surrounded by a friendly element, and minding its own business.

“The true man sees what the eye sees, and does not add to it something that is not there.  He hears what the ears hear, and does not detect imaginary undertones or overtones.  He understands things in their obvious interpretation and is not busy with hidden meanings and mysteries.  His course is therefore a straight line.  Yet he can change his direction whenever circumstances suggest it.”
 

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu fell silent and Lao Tzu was still recovering from that last rambling from Chuang Tzu.

 

Eventually though, Lao Tzu said:

 

 

Don’t Make Light Of Your Body


Music and food;
For these passing travelers stop.

The gentleman,

In traveling all day,
Does not get far away from his luggage carts.

When he’s safely inside
A walled-in protected hostel
And resting at ease;
Only then does he transcend all concern.
In the midst of honor and glory,
He lives leisurely,
Undisturbed.

How can the ruler of a great country
Make light of his body
By rushing about in the empire?
 

Edited December 12, 2015 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu replied:

 

 

No Heed To Worldly Affairs

“I heard the Master say the true Sage pays no heed to worldly affairs.  He seeks no gain but avoids injury.  He asks nothing at the hands of man and does not adhere to rigid rules of conduct.  Sometimes he says something without speaking and sometimes he speaks without saying anything.  To me this is the embodiment of the most wonderful Tao.”
 

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu continued:

 

 

The Active Life

If an expert does not have some problems to vex him, he is unhappy!  If a philosopher’s teaching is never attacked, he pines away.  If critics have no one on whom to exercise their spite, they are unhappy.  All such men are prisoners in the world of objects.

He who wants followers seeks political power.  He who wants reputation holds an office.  The strong man looks for weights to lift.  The brave man looks for an emergency in which he can show bravery.  The swordsman wants a battle in which he can swing his sword.  Men past their prime prefer a dignified retirement in which they may seem profound.  Men experienced in law seek difficult cases to extend the application of laws.  Liturgists and musicians like festivals in which they parade their ceremonious talents.  The benevolent, the dutiful, are always looking for chances to display virtue.

Where would the gardener be if there were no more weeds?  What would become of business without a market of fools?  Where would the fools be if there were no pretext for getting jammed together and making noise?  What would become of labor if there were no superfluous objects to be made?

Produce!  Get results!  Make money!  Make friends!  Make changes!  Or you will die of despair!

Those who are caught in the machinery of power take no joy except in activity and change; the whirring of the machine!  Whenever an occasion for action presents itself, they are compelled to act; they cannot help themselves.  They are inexorably moved, like the machine of which they are a part.  Prisoners in the world of objects, they have no choice but to submit to the demands of matter!  They are pressed down and crushed by external forces, fashion, the market, events and public opinion.  Never in a whole lifetime do they recover their right mind!  The active life!  What a pity!

And so all these people follow their routine, year in, year out, submerged in their own affairs, and cannot get out.  They let their bodily desires run away with them and get tangled up in the thousand and one affairs until they die.  Alas!
 

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu continued:

 

 

Flight From The Shadow

There was a man who was so disturbed by the sight of his own shadow and displeased with his own footsteps that he determined to get rid of both.  The method he hit upon was to run away from them.

So he got up and ran.  But every time he put his foot down there was another step, while his shadow kept up with him without the slightest difficulty.

He attributed his failure to the fact that he was not running fast enough.  So he ran faster and faster, without stopping, until he finally dropped dead.

He failed to realize that if he merely stepped into the shade, his shadow would vanish, and if he sat down and stayed still, there would be no more footsteps.
 

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu laid back on the grass and Lao Tzu said:

 

 

On The Decline Of Tao

On the decline of the great Tao,
The doctrines of “humanity” and “justice” arose.
When knowledge and cleverness appeared,
Great hypocrisy followed in its wake.
When the six relationships no longer lived at peace,
There was praise of “kind parents” and “filial sons”.
When the country fell into chaos and misrule,
There was praise of “loyal ministers”.
 

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu sat back up and replied:

 

 

On The Decline Of The Great Tao When Humanity And Justice Arose

When the learned ones appeared, straining for humanity and limping with justice, doubt and confusion entered men’s minds.  They said they must make merry by means of music and enforce distinctions by means of ceremony, and the empire became divided against itself.

Were the uncarved wood not cut up, who could make sacrificial vessels?  Were white jade left uncut, who could make the regalia of courts?  Were Tao and Character not destroyed, what use would there be for humanity and justice?  Were men’s natural instincts not lost, what need would there be for music and ceremonies?  Were the five colors not confused, who would need decorations?  Were the five notes not confused, who would adopt the six pitch-pipes?

Destruction of the natural integrity of things for the production of articles of various kinds; this is the fault of the artisan.  Destruction of Tao and Character in order to strive for humanity and justice; this is the fault of the learned ones.
 

[Marblehead]

After a sort pause Lao Tzu said:

 

 

Those Who Hold It Lose It

For those who would like to take control
Of the world and act on it;
The Sage knows that with this
They simply will not succeed.
The world is a sacred vessel;
It is not something that can be acted upon.

Those who act on it destroy it;
Those who try to hold on to it lose it;
He who makes it spoils it.

Hence the Sage eschews excess,
Eschews extravagance,
Eschews pride.
 

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu replied:

 

 

To Have Territory Is To Have Something Great

To have a territory is to have something great.  He who has something great must not regard the material things as material things.  Only by not regarding material things as material things can one be the lord of things.  The principle of looking at material things as not real things is not confined to mere government of the empire.  Such a one may wander at will between the six limits of space or travel over the Seven Continents, unhampered and free.  This is to be the Unique One.  The Unique One is the highest among men.
 

[Marblehead]

Lao Tzu patiently wait for more but nothing came forth.

 

Eventually Lao Tzu said:

 

 

The Highest Virtue Takes No Action


The highest Virtue takes no action,
Yet it has no reason for acting this way.
The highest humanity takes action
And it feels it has its reasons for acting this way.
The highest righteousness takes action,
And it feels it has its reasons for acting this way.
The highest propriety takes action,
And when no one responds to it,
It angrily rolls up its sleeves
And forces people to comply.

Therefore,
When the Tao is lost,
Only then do we have Virtue.
When Virtue is lost,
Only then do we have humanity.
When humanity is lost,
Only then do we have righteousness.
When righteousness is lost,
Only then do we have justice.
When justice is lost,
Only then do we have courtesy.
Now courtesy is merely
The thinning out of loyalty and honesty of heart,
And the beginning of chaos.
At the beginning of chaos,
Only then do we have propriety.
As for propriety,
It’s but the thin edge of loyalty and sincerity,
And the beginning of disorder.      

Pre-disposition is but the flower of the Tao,
And the beginning of stupidity.
The prophets are the flowering expression of Tao
And the origin of folly.
Therefore the noble man dwells in the base,
And not in the tip.
He dwells in the fruit, and not in the flower.
Therefore he rejects the one and accepts the other.
 

[Marblehead]

After a moment of thought Chuang Tzu replied:

 

 

The Decline Of Tao

Tao cannot be possessed.  Te can be achieved.  Humanity can be cultivated.  Justice can be deficient and rituals are means of affectation.   Therefore, it is said, ”After Tao is lost, then arises Te; after Te is lost, then arises the doctrine of humanity; after humanity is lost, then arises the doctrine of justice; after justice is lost, then arises the doctrine of rituals.”  Rituals represent the decadent flowering of Tao and the beginning of world chaos.

In the days before men were perverted they stayed at home without knowing how to do the least thing, they strolled around without knowing where they were going.  They stuffed themselves with food, slapped each other on the back, and lived free and easy.  They had no talent for anything else.  But when the learned ones appeared with their ritual bowing and their music, presuming to discipline people’s behavior throughout the world, when they started flaunting their virtue in the hope of conquering people’s minds, men began scrambling after knowledge and arguing over wealth; it was no longer possible to stop them.  This was the error of these learned ones.
 

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu continued:

 

 

The Proper Place Of Human Institutions

The primary things should stand at the top and secondary things stand at the bottom.  The essential principles should be with the sovereign; the details with the ministers.  The three armies and five kinds of military weapons are things that belong to the means of government.  Promotions and punishments, inducements and rewards and the criminal code are the secondary things in a nations culture.  Rituals and laws, the distinctions of rank and statistics and the comparison of terminology are secondary things in the art of government.  Bells and drums and feather decorations are the secondary things in music.  Weeping and mourning and the wearing of hemp clothes and hemp hemming and the gradations in the length of mourning are secondary things in the expression of sorrow.

These five kinds of secondary things require the employment of the mind and conscious planning before they can be carried out.  The ancients had this body of the unessential knowledge, but they did not put it first.

To talk about Tao without observing the sequence of importance is to miss Tao.  To discuss Tao and miss it at the same time; of what use could be the discussion?

Therefore, the ancients who understood the great Tao first tried to understand Nature, and then to understand Tao and Te.  After they understood Tao and Te, then they began to understand humanity and justice.  After humanity and justice were understood, then they began to attend to differences of ranks and duties.  After the differences in ranks and duties were established, then they tried to set the terminology in order.  When the terminology was established, then they began to decide on appointments.  After appointments were made, then they began to review the records of the personnel.  After their records were reviewed, then they tried to decide right and wrong.  After they decided right and wrong, then they considered the promotions and punishments.  When the promotions and punishments were properly carried out, then the clever and the stupid ones, the high and the low, the good and the bad, all fell into their proper places, each employing his ability and acting according to his station.

Thus those above may be served, those below may be properly fed, affairs may be attended to, the self may be cultivated, and there is no need to rely on cunning and strategy and all credit is given to Tao.  This is the reign of peace, the height of the art of government.

Therefore, an ancient book says, “When there is form, there is a name.”  The ancients had this science of forms and names, but they did not put it first.  In speaking of the great principles of government, according to the ancients, the science of terminology was the fifth step and promotions and punishments came in ninth.  To begin by talking about terminology is to fail to appreciate the fundamentals.  To begin by talking of promotions and punishments is to fail to recognize the foundation.  This is reverse entirely the sequence of Tao.  Such technicians of government should serve others; how could they be the rulers?  To begin by talking of terminology and promotions and punishments is to discuss the means of government without knowing the principles of government.  They can be employed for the government, but cannot govern the world.  These people are merely specialists.