Someone explain feminism/sexism to me

[Yasjua]

I grew up 99% ignorant of gender identity. It never made any sense to me. I avoided becoming super "manly" because I saw it as a facade for ordinary human vulnerability. I also never really saw women as inferior or anything. Male and female identity roles seem like... guidelines more than anything. I've worn lots of women's clothing throughout my life and have never taken shit for it. In other words, I've taken a playful position around gender expectations.

 

Some feminists I know seem extremely combative and aggressive. This is psychologically complex to deal with for me. Here I am suddenly being bashed on by someone for using language they found offensive, when I've never in my life taken gender identity seriously, and enjoy playing with and against stereotypes in my day to day speech and decision-making. I really took it to the chin today for suggesting I poop like a little girl.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Yasjua

[Brian]

How, exactly, is it that a little girl is presumed to poop? I guess I've led a sheltered life.

[GreytoWhite]

:?

[silent thunder]

Ok I'll bite:

 

the action of Tao is like a drawn bow...

eventually, it settles in balance.

 

*until then, all sorts of pendulum like purterbations take place as each extreme is expressed according to 'perspectives'...

[dust]

Hmmn. I don't know how difficult it is to understand. Seems to me like you understand what's going on but would rather continue to appear to be 'in the dark' so as to be able to carry on with the same attitude regardless.

 

(For the record, I think it's a great attitude -- your understanding of gender from a young age has been far more 'healthy' than that of most people in even their old age -- but this isn't going to fly with many people, especially extreme male or female chauvinists.)

[Amurite]

At its root feminism is about equality among genders. It is feminism, and not masculinism, because usually the disparity has historically favored males and those who are masculine.

 

Gender itself is kind of weird. Some people don't pay it any attention and some people are extra keen on it. A lot of gender roles are guidelines and expectations. The certain quality that makes someone truly feminine or truly masculine is hard to define. Partly because those terms are a little nebulous.

 

But yeah, what? Pooping like a little girl?

[dust]

http://www.open.edu/openlearn/body-mind/proper-men-proper-women-gender-roles-contemporary-uk-society

 

In humans (and most other animals), we see male and female. Most humans cannot understand that the 2 are different parts of a whole, that each of us had the potential to be the 'opposite', and indeed that even when it comes to something as apparently static as gender, there is a spectrum, and all of us have both of the 'gender-specific' hormones floating around in our blood streams. Just as with temperature or colour, there is room for movement.

 

But humans take our male/female roles very seriously. Most people believe that we must be either hot or cold, black or white; there's no way to mix the 2. This is both genetic and cultural; at once an innate and a learned belief.

 

Innate because... well, look between your legs. You've most likely either got a pole or a hole. (You might have both...or something in between..). This is a clear visual marker (we're generally very visual beings). And most of us are attracted to the one that we don't have. We want to put our pokey thing in the hole or vice versa.

 

Learned because... well, look at society. Read the article above. You use the term 'gender identity'; this seems to speak of the idea that different genders have different identities. Physiologically speaking, this is true to a point: there are clear physical/chemical/biological differences between men and women, and even without cultural influence these can probably translate into mental/psychological differences. But our major differences in society are almost entirely perceived; created from situation, and perpetuated through conditioning.

 

Socially, every culture in history has assigned different roles -- and thus identities -- to the genders. They differ between cultures, but it's something that humans can't help doing. See recent topic for some basic reasons for inequality between people (not just the sexes).

 

These differences exist, but mostly, only because we make them so. They are not all innate, but people believe they are.

 

Now, I don't know exactly what happened, but it would seem to me that a woman who has a problem with you apparent disregard for gender roles/identity simply has a superficial understanding of gender roles herself, and combined with your apparently dismissive and oblivious attitude to people's feelings, this causes anger.

Edited March 15, 2015 by dustybeijing

[BaguaKicksAss]

There have been a few threads about this topic on here, most of them locked and/or pitted. Perhaps a search?

[Yasjua]

I had a positive experience today after meditating and talking to her about my beliefs.

 

This is a little strange, so follow if you want to.

 

I saw feminism as an etheric craft. I saw how my ex-partner was aboard this mental warship feeling that it protected her, gave her back the value her sexist father took away from her, and connected her to others with whom to discuss the struggles against patriarchy with.

 

I saw how feminism could benefit from some grounding. I invited her to value herself with her feet on the ground. To appreciate the inherent value in everything and everyone rooted on this planet. I saw her value and how she didn't have to fight for it or shroud herself in feminist philosophy to attain it. I invited her off of the ship, to come to Earth, to live on this beautiful harmonious sphere and not dissociate into some vehicle for her self-worth and purpose. I could sense the truth.

 

I come from a background of having boarded an ether ship myself. The vehicle of spirituality was my way of leaving the planet, trying to attain self-value, to "fight the system," to overcome oppression. I was on that ride for a few years, and was actually pretty deeply involved in it at her age (2 years younger), so I understand. We don't all know that value is inherent, not earned, and that it can't be taken away, and that when it is, it's based on the illusion of hierarchies.

 

I feel good about the progress we made today.

[DreamBliss]

It is the same fight the LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Transgender) people are fighting.

 

It is the fight the black people fought, and are still fighting.

 

It may even be the fight the Taliban and Al Queda are fighting.

 

All these groups feel oppressed, repressed or suppressed by other groups in some way.

 

Woman want the same rights and men. Some of the women who want these rights see men as keeping them from it.

 

Unfortunately, in their fight, women actually are giving power to that which they fight. They are reinforcing the things they do not desire by adopting the premise, in the first place, that they are somehow less than, or not getting the same treatment, or whatever.

 

All these groups suffer from the same issue. Us VS Them. It is all duality, all ego. The women's movements, LGBT, the equal rights movement for blacks, the terrorist striking against their oppressors - these are all products of our society. This is what mankind's ego has brought it to.

 

So that is what's going on in a nutshell. The women want to do the same jobs as men, even the physically demanding ones, and they want the same pay. They do not want any glass ceiling getting in their way of their fight to the top. They want to be CEOs, not secretaries. It started at the turn of the 1900s, if memory serves.

 

Nobody questions the societal model, or the issues in society that have clearly created these problems. And nobody questions the us VS them mentality. If humans continue in this fashion we will probably annihilate either ourselves or our planet.

 

The only solution is to realize that we are all wearing masks that have identities and genders, but these masks are the parts we are playing, not who we are. We, as a race, need to wake up to the fact we are wearing masks, that we are just playing parts.

[thelerner]

Feminism is a good idea. Basically it calls for equal rights and opportunities for woman. Like any movement it gets a little crazy at the extremes, where an enemy must be found and unfortunately that unifying enemy is All men and the patriarchy. Thus the radicals waste energy and at times look ridiculous.

 

I want my daughter and and nieces to have the same rights and opportunities as any one else. Society loses potential when some are kept from there aspirations. Let the individual decide there path without prejudices.

Edited January 12, 2015 by thelerner

[redcairo]

There is a book called "Who Stole Feminism?" that I read and really had my eyes opened by.

 

One of the fundamental points of the book is that there are actually two kinds of feminism -- there is "gender feminism," and when you meet someone who seems offended at men's existence and anything they ever say or do, that's them.

 

Then there is "equity feminism" which is pretty much limited to say look, if two people truly are doing the identical job equally well, they ought to make the same pay. This expects that men be a part of the movement, not just women. And for the most part, while it may philosophize about many things, it doesn't really care deeply whether or not men open the door for women because this isn't about equality -- if it were about anything it would be about uniformity or homogeneity but those are not the same thing as equality.

 

The first is how feminism is loudly portrayed. My own daughter, at age 18, actually sneered at the word feminism, and I realized it wasn't just my generation horribly turned off by that, but hers too -- and she is actually about 1.5 behind me, as I was 30 when I had her. Such a shame, as the original feminists were awesome heroes.

 

There are some things that the media's push on feminism has helped; for example I was a single mom all my kid's life (she is 20 now) and I don't recall ever feeling put down for it. That story was very different in my mom's generation. On the other hand, the statistics on kids from single moms are ghastly, and this is not something we ought to be recommending as an 'equal' choice. It's not an equal choice when we look at the stats on outcomes, not at all. At that point I think the politic to feel rid of any need for men actually does harm. 

 

As for how anybody 'reacts' to you -- how people react is about them, not about you. She does not represent all women.

 

I remember the NOW group once had a voting bloc of like 10,000 and were representing American women. Who are around half of our 300 million population. Hardly reasonable.