People unable to look you in the eyes

[Owledge]

My ears are blurred.

It's more comfortable.

[Nungali]

I like looking into a person's soul. Especially a woman's. Many strange things to be found in there.

 

 

 

A line from one of my poems;

 

" ... his eyes were like deep dark pools

like places I have never been

they looked ... into me

.... through me ... "

 

 

 

 

.... and women ... when I worked with refugee relocation and Iranians, many were 'outlanders' from places with little Arabic stock and showed some original Persian ( 'Aryan' traits), some of the women had golden skin, raven blue-black or red-black hair and near Asian, almond -shaped, brilliant , two-toned , green eyes. One jokingly mimed to me with a scarf and said how 'Even if the face is covered and only the eyes are revealed ... that is enough' - sometimes effort was required to stay focused on the job.

 

 

I have a piece I wrote about 'Why cant people look me in the eyes?' ... from a totally different perspective ... that I will find and put up later.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Nungali

[Nungali]

I've had a peculiar encounter a while ago and am wondering what might have been going on and whether it was something about me, the other person, or both, and what.

 

So imagine this:

 

There's a public speaker. She's answering questions by the audience, talking to people directly, all very natural. Then you approach her and ask her a (normal, harmless, on-topic) question. She apparently doesn't properly focus on the question and gives an answer based on misunderstanding it. Her eyes and head are wandering/jerking all around the place. It's like her eyes are drawing a jaggy circle around you. At no moment is she able/willing to look at you directly. It is borderline comedical.

Afterwards, when talking to other people, she's back to normal again.

 

 

Maybe she was psychic and checking out your 'aura' ... watching all the little ponies, stuffed toy owls, dolphins with laser cannons and things zip, bounce and zoom around in a circle around you ?

Edited January 12, 2015 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Eye contact is weird. Some cultures consider it highly disrespectful to look with more than a glance into a person's eyes...especially a stranger. Some like in Mongolia believe that if you stare into a shaman's eyes, bad things will happen to you. These people are sensitive to things regarding the soul, or the subjective aspects of a person.

 

I personally find it very rude if a person looks in my eyes longer than a few seconds...like 10 seconds is highly uncalled for, and in psychology they say that longer than 6 seconds, and it means the person either wants to kill you or fuck you (both of which I don't accept). At times I will purposefully stare longer into theirs, making sure that they look away first, in order to show that they aren't dominant over me. On a primal or even symbolic level, that I won't let them "kill" me. But that's only with people who are staring way too long and with the wrong attitude.

 

In a normal interaction with a person, eye contact isn't on your mind. It's only when things are abnormal, that we have a heightened awareness of what our eyes and their eyes are doing. All of this is not to comment on Owl's particular experience, but just speaking about strange eye contact in general.

 

Uh-hu ..... yep, that was a good post on it.

 

Sometimes here we are told not to look into the eyes of the indigenous. Of course, as with all things, it depends on who, where and circumstance.

 

I have experienced the opposite from the indigenous here as well; a virtual 'seizing' and searching of my 'intention', a loving 'searching' .... yep, the usual whole range. I have been 'invited to look' at the person, their body type and structure, they eyes and through them 'into their spirit' ( as the man was a 'rare type' a Queensland "Rainforest Pygmy" - said by some, never to have existed; " Check me out ... you can look, that's alright ... see how different I am? ... Now ... look into my eyes and tell me what you see ." etc. - that is different as its an invite,,, and pretty rare. )

[Nungali]

Okay, here it is (it is part of an unused script so it is in that format) .

 

I was (unfortunately ) ' Dr Bacon ' (work name ) and on a job in Melbourne, I was staying in a house with an Iranian (the boss) and a Mexican ( fellow 'worker' ) - I had to sleep in the hallway to the toilet ( better than sharing a bed room with 'The Mexican' ) .

 

We had to drive from the eastern outskirts of Melbourne to the western ones, every day ... in a bright red work van with a large cartoon camel painted on the side.

 

(Its true ... )

 

Why cant people look me in the eyes ?

 

SCENE . INT . RED VAN. DAY.

ARTURO, DR. BACON.

 

Dr. Bacon is driving the red van home from work, Arturo is a passenger.

 

ARTURO

 

“Hey Bacon … look a bottle shop, drive in man.”

DR. BACON

 

“Nah, you can go when we get home’s its only 20 mins away. Reza be pissed off if we are late home . ”

 

ARTURO

“Come on man, I need beer now! Pull over … just up there in the driveway … come on I’ll shout you one.”

 

 

 

[FADE OUT]

 

SCENE . INT . RED VAN. DAY.

ARTURO, DR. BACON.

 

Arturo has a carton of beer cans beside him, he is drinking one and there are 4 empty cans on the seat next to him.

 

ARTURO

“Come on Bacon, have a beer, chill out for Christ sake.”

 

DR. BACON

“I’m not gonna drink while I’m driving.”

 

ARTURO

(Trying to imitate Dr. Bacon)

“I’m not going to drink while I’m driving … pussy!”

 

Dr. BACON

“Fuck off!”

 

ARTURO

“Hey man, don’t hate me ‘cause I’m black.”

 

DR. BACON

“Don’t start that shit again … I’ve told you, it’s not because you’re ‘black’ that I hate you!”

 

ARTURO

“Hey man, it’s hard living in another country … where everyone is different from you. You don’t know what it’s like… ”

 

(pause Arturo thinks)

 

“ You know, some people can’t even look me in the eye … I know it’s because I’m black … my eyes are very black and people can’t handle looking into them, well, maybe for a moment, but never longer than that, then they look away.”

 

(Arturo finishes the can of beer and starts another one)

 

“Do you know what that’s like Baconinni? Not to have anyone want to look in your eyes …. It’s very sad, that’s what it is …

 

(he finishes the can of beer and opens another)

 

“ … very sad.”

 

DR. BACON

“Oh poor little Artie. I feel so sorry for you ….”

 

Dr. Bacon lurches the steering wheel to avoid a collision, he blasts the horn, Arturo’s beer spills.

 

(yelling out window)

“ Arsehole! Use your blinkers.”

 

Arturo finishes the beer and opens another, now he is looking bleary eyed. The van stops at a red light and alongside the lights is a bus stop with several people waiting for a bus.

 

SCENE . INT . RED VAN. DAY.

ARTURO, DR. BACON, PEOPLE AT BUS STOP, TEENAGE SCHOOLGIRL.

 

ARTURO

“So you think I am bullshitting Bacon? Well watch this and I’ll show you.”

 

Arturo half leans out of the van window and starts staring straight at the schoolgirl.

 

SCENE . INT . RED VAN. DAY.

ARTURO.

 

CLOSE UP – Arturo’s face, looking very out of it, eyes bloodshot wide with a wild and weird look in them , staring intensely.

 

SCENE . EXT . BUS STOP. DAY.

PEOPLE AT BUS STOP, SCHOOLGIRL.

 

Schoolgirl looks, then looks inquisitively, then with unease, then looks away.

 

SCENE . INT . RED VAN. DAY.

ARTURO, DR. BACON.

 

ARTURO

“D’you see Bacon? D’you see? Maybe 5 – 10 seconds and they have to look away.”

 

DR. BACON

“Man, she’s a 16 year old schoolgirl! She can’t look anyone in the eye. Watch this.”

 

Dr. Bacon leans over Arturo and stares at the schoolgirl out the passenger side window, giving a very intense and weird stare. She looks very nervous. The traffic lights change to green and the van roars off.

 

SCENE . EXT. TRAFFIC STOPPED AT TRAFFIC LIGHTS, WOMAN IN CAR WAITING FOR LIGHTS. DAY.

ARTURO, WOMAN.

 

The red van pulls up slowly next to her, Arturo’s face is at the window staring intensely and weirdly at the woman. She looks away.

 

ARTURO

“You see! You see! It’s not just schoolgirls. It’s every one man …”

 

The van pulls away and the woman sees the camel logo go past.

 

SCENE . INT. REZA’S HOUSE AT G.C. DAY.

REZA

 

Reza is sitting in lounge room looking over paperwork.

 

SFX – Van roaring into driveway, skids to a stop.

 

Reza looks at his watch.

 

REZA

“Where the hell have those bastards been?”

 

DR. BACON

(V.O. from outside)

“ … Bullshit, wanker … I bet you cant, I bet you $10 bucks you cant do it for 5 whole minutes without a break.”

 

Reza goes to window and looks out.

 

REZA

“What the hell are they doing?”

 

SCENE . EXT. VIEW OUT OF REZAS WINDOW TO FRONT YARD.

ARTURO, DR. BACON.

 

Dr . Bacon is at the back of the van unloading things. Arturo attempts to get out of van but opens door and falls out amidst a cascade of empty beer cans. Dr Bacon walks past carrying plastic shopping bags and kicks the cans at Arturo who is lying on the ground.

 

SCENE . INT. REZA’S HOUSE AT G.C. DAY.

REZA, ARTURO, DR. BACON.

 

Reza is back at lounge with paperwork on coffee table. Dr. Bacon enters and dumps bags on table.

 

DR. BACON

“Fuckin’ Mexican he’s off his face already.”

 

REZA

“Has he drunk all that beer since he left work?”

 

DR. BACON

“Oh yeah! And a giant joint ! ... w hile I am driving. And that’s not all, he must have hassled about 25 women on the way home. He’s doing that, ‘Oh poor me, a lost Mexican in a strange culture’ routine again. He reckons people cant look him in the eyes because he’s black. Man, have you ever looked in his eyes? They’re the blackest, beadiest, sleaziest eyes I have seen. No wonder no one wants to look him in the eyes … so he’s trying to prove it to me all the way home, staring weirdly at people and then lamenting.

 

“So I told him, ‘Well, perhaps if you picked people other than women to stare at …’ “

 

REZA

“So it was only women he stared at? No wonder everyone looked away.”

 

DR. BACON

“Yeah … well, women and schoolgirls. So I tried to explain to him that’s it not them, or it’s not that you’re ‘black’ but that your eyes look fuckin’ psycotic and I’ve bet him $10 he cant stare into his own eyes for 5 minutes.”

 

REZA

(laughing)

“What, you bet he cant look at his own eyes himself?”

 

DR. BACON

“That guys so fucked up he couldn’t look into his own eyes even if they weren’t psychotic.”

 

SFX – from outside; the noise of empty beer cans scraping around the driveway and Arturo moaning and mumbling in Spanish.

 

Dr. Bacon goes to thee window and looks out.

 

“Here he comes.”

 

Dr. Bacon goes around to the front door and locks the fly screen door. Arturo tries to come in.

 

ARTURO

(rattling the door)

“Let me in man, let me in!”

 

DR. BACON

“What about the beer cans and all your mess in the driveway, you’re not leaving that there, pick it up first, then I’ll let you in”

 

Dr. Bacon goes back to lounge and sits down. Arturo forces the door open and comes in, trying to be agile but he is too drunk. He makes a few pathetic boxing moves at Dr. Bacon.

 

“Don’t do that Artie … you’ll end up in trouble ... remember what happened last time ? . Anyway Artie - the bet?”

 

 

ARTURO

“Yeah! Hey Reza, Bacon owes me $10 because all the people cant look at me ‘cause I’m black … you know how it is man.”

 

REZA

“What?”

 

DR. BACON

“That’s not the bet. The bet was that you can’t look into your own eyes for 5 minutes, that was the bet.”

 

ARTURO

“Yeah? Oh yeah, that’s right, ok, $10 Bacon, pay up.”

 

DR. BACON

“You haven’t done it yet, you fuckin’ idiot, go into the bathroom, stare into the mirror for 5 full minutes.”

 

Arturo goes into the bathroom Reza starts showing Dr. Bacon something in the paperwork. Arturo returns, now with his hair done neatly and shaven.

 

ARTURO.

“$10 bucks Bacon, pay up!”

 

DR. BACON

“Did you stare into your eyes for 5 minutes? I’m not just going to pay you for going to the bathroom for 5 minutes. It looks like you did your hair and had a shave and spent the whole time doing that.”

 

REZA

“Did you use my razor Artie?

 

ARTURO

“Ummm …”

 

REZA

“And my shaving cream, and my towels?”

 

DR. BACON

“Come on Artie.”

 

Dr. Bacon takes Arturo into the bathroom.

 

SCENE . INT. REZA’S BATHROOM.

ARTURO, DR. BACON.

 

Dr. Bacon takes Arturo up to the bathroom mirror and stands him in front of it.

 

DR. BACON

“Okay Artie, now look straight into your own eyes.”

 

CLOSE UP – Arturo’s face in mirror, intense stare for a few seconds then he looks away.

 

 

ARTURO

“Sheet man! That’s freaky … hang on I can do it.”

 

Several repeated attempts with the same results.

 

“Ah man, I cant do it with you standing there watching me. You’re making me nervous.”

 

REZA

(V.O. from lounge room)

“What are you two doing in there?”

 

ARTURO

“Come on man, I cant do it with you watching.”

 

DR. BACON

“Okay, I wait outside, but Artie? Be honest, okay?”

 

SCENE . INT. REZAS LOUNGE ROOM. DAY.

REZA, ARTURO, DR. BACON.

 

Dr. Bacon is sitting down again with Reza showing him paperwork. Arturo walks in slams $10 on the table and walks out to the kitchen.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Nungali

[Owledge]

Unrealistic ending though. If that was a real person and not just a character, based on his whole previous behavior, he wouldn't be honest. He's way too full of shit and dishonest to himself.

Makes Dr. Bacon a tiny bit of a Mary Sue there.

[Marblehead]

 

A line from one of my poems;

 

" ... his eyes were like deep dark pools

like places I have never been

they looked ... into me

.... through me ... "

Nice.

 

.... and women ... when I worked with refugee relocation and Iranians, many were 'outlanders' from places with little Arabic stock and showed some original Persian ( 'Aryan' traits), some of the women had golden skin, raven blue-black or red-black hair and near Asian, almond -shaped, brilliant , two-toned , green eyes. One jokingly mimed to me with a scarf and said how 'Even if the face is covered and only the eyes are revealed ... that is enough' - sometimes effort was required to stay focused on the job.

Yes, those are the kind of experiences we should remember. Totally different languages and cultures but still able to connect.

Sad we are too often too busy to allow that to happen.

 

I have a piece I wrote about 'Why cant people look me in the eyes?' ... from a totally different perspective ... that I will find and put up later.

May be interesting.

[Nungali]

Unrealistic ending though. If that was a real person and not just a character, based on his whole previous behavior, he wouldn't be honest. He's way too full of shit and dishonest to himself.

Makes Dr. Bacon a tiny bit of a Mary Sue there.

 

Jokes on you this time ... you are totally wrong, he is a real person and not just a character, the story was included here as a demonstration about some of the dynamics people think are going on. I cant see the point of demonstrating something like that with a made up story.

 

I realise you very much like made -up stories .... but some stories and experiences ... are actually real ... and based on real experiences with real people .... and not bouncing cartoon pet ponies, or people dressed up in costumes going to conferences about pink bouncing ponies.

 

It was a true story and Arturo is a real person. If he chooses to act like a politically incorrect joke of a typical western Mexican archetype ... and sound like an old Cheech and Chong record, that is his 'invention' and not mine.

 

During the course of the job I would say I paid out about $30 in lost bets to him and took in about $70 ... most of the time the money was handed to the boss and he distributed the winnings, as A. was too out of to remember what the bet actually was.

 

I also won a fair bit of money from tomahawk and knife throwing ... from people that judged me and assumed I was all talk ... a bit of a 'Mary Sue' when I would boast about my weapons skill (which is just a suck in to get them to bet against me

 

Oh ... and if you haven't figured out yet ... when you are talking to a woman and she does what that woman did to you .... it means .....

 

... move on to the next woman !

Edited January 13, 2015 by Nungali

[Owledge]

Well, then Arturo restored some faith in humanity for me.

Your second paragraph destroyed it again.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Owledge

[Marblehead]

Creation and destruction. The never ending cycles.

[Nungali]

Well, then Arturo restored some faith in humanity for me.

Your second paragraph destroyed it again.

 

 

your 'faith in humanity' is secured by " people dressed up in costumes going to conferences about pink bouncing ponies. " ? ? ?

 

 

Ummmmm .....

Edited January 13, 2015 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Creation and destruction. The never ending cycles.

 

 

 

 

 

[Owledge]

your 'faith in humanity' is secured by " people dressed up in costumes going to conferences about pink bouncing ponies. " ? ? ?

 

 

Ummmmm .....

You're either STILL trolling or the whole thing is really beyond your comprehension.

Either way, it's for you to make an effort here.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Owledge

[MooNiNite]

it's weird looking people in the eyes.

i dont think animals like it either

[Owledge]

it's weird looking people in the eyes.

i dont think animals like it either

I only know about dogs; Among them it's kind of a dominance-establishing action. (Who averts the look first?)

But yeah, it's something you can translate to humans. The one with the insecurities looks away first.

I once had an related encounter with a butch lesbian. I was fascinated by what she was telling, but her whole self-identity was (naturally) based around opposing men, so she had to give me the weirdo-judgment look. Kinda sad, although, seeing the tattoos on her arms made it so damn easy to be understanding, haha.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Owledge

[Marblehead]

it's weird looking people in the eyes.

i dont think animals like it either

Cats enjoy it. They will always try to stare you down. (Actually, I think they are looking for any fear in your eyes.)

[Owledge]

Cats enjoy it. They will always try to stare you down. (Actually, I think they are looking for any fear in your eyes.)

Oh man, that must be so funny, knowing that due to ancient instinct, the cat thinks it's a tiger. ^^

Although I would totally not exclude the possibility that there are plenty of cat owners who would actually lose the stare game. Even a cat might sometimes be able to upset people's insecurities, especially the subconscious ones.

[Cookie Monster]

.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Ocean Form

[Silent Answers]

Just another opinion:

 

Owledge I still stand by my first post, that you're probably over thinking it and indulging your ego slightly. However, that isn't a crime, and you sound like you're in your early to mid 20s...we've all been there. That's not what my post is about, though.

 

The fact that people are picking on you for liking ponies, for whatever reason, is silly. It's unrelated to the issue, especially when a few posts prior it's been said that: if Arturo ((forgot the name)) wants to act in a certain way, it's his business. The same applies to you and your love of cartoon ponies. Don't let others tell you what you can and can't like. I belive that's a bro-nie's core value?

 

As for the animated signature...well it doesn't appear on my screen. Maybe that's an issue for the mod team to address if it's really a problem. Unless it's offensive or somehow violates forum signature rules...then I guess everyone else should just learn to deal with it.

[Owledge]

Just another opinion:

 

Owledge I still stand by my first post, that you're probably over thinking it and indulging your ego slightly. However, that isn't a crime, and you sound like you're in your early to mid 20s...we've all been there. That's not what my post is about, though.

 

The fact that people are picking on you for liking ponies, for whatever reason, is silly. It's unrelated to the issue, especially when a few posts prior it's been said that: if Arturo ((forgot the name)) wants to act in a certain way, it's his business. The same applies to you and your love of cartoon ponies. Don't let others tell you what you can and can't like. I belive that's a bro-nie's core value?

 

As for the animated signature...well it doesn't appear on my screen. Maybe that's an issue for the mod team to address if it's really a problem. Unless it's offensive or somehow violates forum signature rules...then I guess everyone else should just learn to deal with it.

Well, I checked your first posting again and because I don't want to write an essay and already wrote more thoughts on the event, I can only say it wasn't like that. Her response style was confident in speech, natural, relaxed, pleasant. She might have misunderstood my question, but based on that her response was still proper. Only her eyes and head didn't match that.

 

As for a brony's core values: Many don't want to see the fandom that way; consider it imposing. Like any other fandom, you have very different people with very different motivations, and thus also more or less hypocrisy. Personally I assumed someone calling themselves a fan of a show that clearly conveys certain high virtues and stands out that way should at least make an effort to live up to them, but then I learned the painful lesson that that's often not the case. Condemnation of bullying for example is a big and public matter in the fandom, since brony kids have faced death because of it, yet there are people calling themselves bronies who are bullies.

 

The signature... yes, it indeed is very nice (obviously) and it's only the fact of the motion itself that some take issue with, but since this is The Tao Bums, I would consider it one of the nicest possible offerings of a lesson to find to inner peace and acceptance. Bronies who cannot stand Pinkie Pie usually feel that way for the same reason (hyper, annoying), but she conveys so much goodness that it would be a shame to avert your view because of technicalities. This problem might be an analogy for how lively, cheerful, active kids are diagnosed as ADHD and declared problem cases, while not taking a look at the structure of school organisation, designed by adults with a desire for rigid order and such, and talking about how that might be the problem, might be backwards, outdated, and shown as such by new generations of people born into these times.

Pinkie bothered me for maybe 15 minutes, then my heart opened, pushed the mind out of the way, and gave way for laughter and appreciation of childlike joy and healthy chaos. I am very thankful to her for reminding me so powerfully of who I have always been and how valuable that is.

 

In fact, I invite anyone to watch the first episode of the show because of your reaction to the first encounter of the pink kind. ^^ It can be like a litmus test.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Owledge

[Nungali]

You're either STILL trolling or the whole thing is really beyond your comprehension.

Either way, it's for you to make an effort here.

 

 

.... yep, the pink pony thing and grown men being 'fans' of it is, I will freely admit, way beyond my comprehension.

 

It could be my location (i have told several people about this here ... and they haven't really believed me ) ... Australia, at times can be very ' behind the times ' , and 'old-fashioned' ... But I realise things in Europe can be very .... 'progressive' .