Seeing, Recognising & Maintaining One's Enlightening Potential

[3bob]

umm, I was paraphrasing some very well recognized Buddhist doctrine as recorded about the historic Buddha and his Ananda ... now you are saying or implying to toss it?   What is a Buddhist to do, pick and choose per their comfort zone from well recognized doctrine, and if that is case then all sorts of stuff could be tossed.

 

as for the second part of your reply that is to much beating around the bush when imo one can just stick with the four-fold negation formula straight up.

 

But thanks for taking a shot at it.

Edited February 16, 2015 by 3bob

[C T]

That particular advice given by the Venerable is very straightforward and really there's no need to superimpose any part of it on to what you think exchanged between the Buddha and Ananda, or the fourfold negation for that matter. 

 

For the sake of clarification, that quote, as a reminder to Buddhists, can be summed up in 2 words: Don't cling. 

 

Its very clear and quite simple to accept these words of advice for those who are on the Buddhist path. 

[C T]

A recent note from a friend said this: 

 

 

Buddhism can tie us in knots, but it doesn't have to. 

 

It can be as simple or as complicated as we want to make it. 

 

Once we learn how to tie shoelaces, 

Each time we do so, the fingers do it, automatically. 

We don't need to be overly mindful of the kinetics;

the point is for the shoes to stay on our feet. 

 

One of the main aims of Dharma is to help reduce guilt around confusion. 

 

Confusion can be a perfect path to recognising pure awareness. 

(So it says in the Hevajra Tantra)

 

The moment we recognise the presence of pride, or anger, or jealousy,

or a complex combination of any of the above, 

there is a spontaneous arising of awareness.

There is no need to force this awareness into play,

nor do we need to doggedly analyse each state, each emotional arising,  

to become aware of the energy

each time we notice their presence. 

 

Ordinary people panic, or react to these states of mind

hence the knots get even tighter. 

 

The Dharma teaches one to simply look at one's mind

placidly, calmly, fearlessly, equanimously -

Just simply be aware -

Knots untie themselves

because mind is empty. 

 

In pure awareness, the qualities of wisdom and compassion

shine forth effortlessly. These two wings of enlightenment

are inseparable from pure awareness. 

 

Compassion is a quality of willing perseverance

that is nurtured from the continuous practice of

opening the heart, 

 

and wisdom is a quality of willing fearlessness

that is nurtured from the continuous practice of 

opening the mind. 

 

Together, they gradually untie all real and imagined knots. 

 

Enlightenment is when the knots remain untied. 

[3bob]

That particular advice given by the Venerable is very straightforward and really there's no need to superimpose any part of it on to what you think exchanged between the Buddha and Ananda, or the fourfold negation for that matter. 

 

For the sake of clarification, that quote, as a reminder to Buddhists, can be summed up in 2 words: Don't cling. 

 

Its very clear and quite simple to accept these words of advice for those who are on the Buddhist path. 

 

Wow, sounds like some of you guys are throwing Buddhism for a loop if you are saying toss well recognized and recorded Buddhist doctrine?  (with such doctrine sure in the heck not being something I dreamed up or am trying to superimpose upon in anyway!)  Btw, CT you are also and now tossing another key teaching from the historic Buddha about finding proof for oneself in favor of a great and venerable somebody else's interpretation?   And again, as for the "four-fold negation" I see it as a very important and key format related to non-clinging while also pointing to finding "proof" that is of a greater order than is commonly known by use of its formula of wisdom as a launching point.

Edited February 16, 2015 by 3bob

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Wow, sounds like some of you guys are throwing Buddhism for a loop if you are saying toss well recognized and recorded Buddhist doctrine?

The idea that the Buddha could have maintained his physical body for an astronomical period of time is hardly of central importance to Buddhism.

 

Considering that there is also, as you yourself say, a

key teaching from the historic Buddha about finding proof for oneself

, any Buddhist who doubts these sorts of paranormal feats but forces themselves to try to believe them anyway because they're in scripture is disregarding key principles in favour of hagiographical garnish.

 

Practising Buddhism doesn't obligate the practitioner to have blind faith in anything.

 

As for the no-self vs fourfold negation thing - if you aren't happy with the answers that have been given, fine. Language can be a tricky thing, people disagree on how they want things said and what they find misleading. Nobody is forcing you to read Ajahn Chah, or to change your own views on the matter.

[3bob]

If I remember correctly the Historic Buddha didn't exactly say physical body, (I'll have to get the text)  but of course there are other forms of bodies such as heavenly type ones if you will... and which Buddhist doctrines are plum full of or over-flowing with per text and graphics.  Btw, what the hell is your problem with saints anyway?  Do you have a problem with Quan Yin and her heavenly being helping all beings?  I wouldn't call such blind faith but fulfilled and true faith.

[C T]

"When you are abiding in the nature of mind many different thoughts arise. Thoughts arise because your mind, in addition to being boundless and inexpressible, is full of power and energy, and that power and energy creates, displays, and dissolves thoughts unceasingly. Your mind is active and busy—this is part of its nature. But even though thoughts keep arising nothing changes regarding the nature of your mind. The nature of your mind is empty, and the nature of thought is empty too.

 

If you look into the heart of any thought that arises that thought will dissolve on the spot. Even if you don’t do anything at all the thought will still dissolve. That is why the great master Guru Padmasambhava said that thoughts move through the mind like wind moves through the sky. The wind moves through the sky, in different directions and speeds, stopping and starting, always unpredictable. The wind cannot be separated from the sky, and the sky remains unaffected by the wind. Therefore the high capability practitioner of the highest caliber experiences no difference between abiding and movement. When the mind moves it is fine and when the mind is still it is fine. There are no categories and no choices to be made within and for the minds of such practitioners.

 

Observe this for yourself. When you are meditating, how long can your mind abide? Then, when your mind moves, does that movement disturb you or not?"

 

Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches
Pointing Out the Nature of Mind:
Dzogchen Pith Instructions of Aro Yeshe Jungne (pgs 29-30)

[C T]

Wow, sounds like some of you guys are throwing Buddhism for a loop if you are saying toss well recognized and recorded Buddhist doctrine?  (with such doctrine sure in the heck not being something I dreamed up or am trying to superimpose upon in anyway!)  Btw, CT you are also and now tossing another key teaching from the historic Buddha about finding proof for oneself in favor of a great and venerable somebody else's interpretation?   And again, as for the "four-fold negation" I see it as a very important and key format related to non-clinging while also pointing to finding "proof" that is of a greater order than is commonly known by use of its formula of wisdom as a launching point.

Buddhism places more vitality on practice than doctrinal arguments, but this certainly does not equate to tossing out anything. 

[3bob]

Is that really or completely so?  If not for the doctrines and or carefully recorded teachings manifesting in schools and people that have been intensely involved with same and also handed down same what would you be practicing and who would there be to to practice it with?

[C T]

Is that really or completely so?  If not for the doctrines and or carefully recorded teachings manifesting in schools and people that have been intensely involved with same and also handed down same what would you be practicing and who would there be to to practice it with?

On some level it is, on others, maybe not so - mostly depends where one is at on the path. 

 

"If not for the doctrines..." does not hold water here because there's no denying the usefulness of contemplating the teachings. Key word being 'Contemplating'. 

 

The Buddha said clinging and aversion are very troublesome, and that covers just about everything in life. 

[3bob]

I guess that means it's a fortunate thing that what he said about clinging, etc. was written down for further contemplation.

Also if one didn't start on the Buddhist path in the first place per or related to doctrine and a school then they wouldn't be anywhere else on path anyway for things to mostly depend on.

[C T]

I guess that means it's a fortunate thing that what he said about clinging, etc. was written down for further contemplation.

Also if one didn't start on the Buddhist path in the first place per or related to doctrine and a school then they wouldn't be anywhere else on path anyway for things to mostly depend on.

If one didn't start on the Buddhist path, then no such speculations need to take place. 

[3bob]

well I meant more like it wouldn't even exist if its founder had not said a word about it and thus there would not be a word recorded about it either.  (thankfully for Buddhists a great god came along and helped spur the Buddha out of his indecision and doubt about saying a word about it as was recorded in doctrine)

[C T]

well I meant more like it wouldn't even exist if its founder had not said a word about it and thus there would not be a word recorded about it either.  (thankfully for Buddhists a great god came along and helped spur the Buddha out of his indecision and doubt about saying a word about it as was recorded in doctrine)

This you have said for the umpteenth time, 3bob. Thank you once again.

 

Looking forward to the next reminder in another few months. 

[3bob]

Some info from Buddhist doctrine: btw. apparently "world period" has the same meaning as "world cycle" unless someone has other information?

 

From the Maha-parinibbana Sutta: Last Days of the Buddha, translated from the Pali by Sister Vajira & Francis Story

 

3. And the Blessed One said: "Whosoever, Ananda, has developed, practiced, employed, strengthened, maintained, scrutinized, and brought to perfection the four constituents of psychic power could, if he so desired, remain throughout a world-period or until the end of it.  The Tathagata, Ananda, has done so. Therefore the Tathagata could, if he so desired, remain throughout a world-period or until the end of it."

4. But the Venerable Ananda was unable to grasp the plain suggestion, the significant prompting, given by the Blessed One. As though his mind was influenced by Mara,  he did not beseech the Blessed One: "May the Blessed One remain, O Lord!. May the Happy One remain, O Lord, throughout the world-period, for the welfare and happiness of the multitude, out of compassion for the world, for the benefit, well being, and happiness of gods and men!"

5. And when for a second and a third time the Blessed One repeated his words, the Venerable Ananda remained silent.

6. Then the Blessed One said to the Venerable Ananda: "Go now, Ananda, and do as seems fit to you."

 

And later on in...

56:

"But you, Ananda, were unable to grasp the plain suggestion, the significant prompting given you by the Tathagata, and you did not entreat the Tathagata to remain. For if you had done so, Ananda, twice the Tathagata might have declined, but the third time he would have consented. Therefore, Ananda, the fault is yours; herein you have failed."

 

From Buddhist cosmology:

 

 Great Aeon or World Cycle (Maha-kappa)
A maha kappa or aeon is generally taken to mean a world cycle.
How long is a world cycle? In Samyutta ii, Chapter XV, the Buddha
used the parables of the hill and mustard-seed for comparison:
• Suppose there was a solid mass, of rock or hill, one yojana
(eight miles) wide, one yojana across and one yojana high and
every hundred years, a man was to stroke it once with a piece of
silk. That mass of rock would be worn away and ended sooner
than would an aeon.
• Suppose there was a city of iron walls, one yojana in length, one
yojana in width, one yojana high and filled with mustard-seeds
to the brim. There-from a man was to take out every hundred
years a mustard-seed. That great pile of mustard-seed would be
emptied and ended sooner than would an aeon.
 

Edited February 17, 2015 by 3bob

[C T]

Vajra-mantra interlude 

 

[C T]

Nirodha: What it means

 

The word Nirodha has been translated as “cessation” for so long that it has become standard practice, and any deviation from it leads to queries. For the most part this standard translation is for the sake of convenience as well as to avoid confusing it for other Pali terms (apart from lack of a better word). In fact, however, this rendering of the word “Nirodha” as “ceased” can in many instances be a mis-rendering of the text.

Generally speaking, the word “cease” means to do away with something which has already arisen, or the stopping of something which has already begun. However, Nirodha in the teaching of Dependent Origination (as also in Dukkhanirodha, the third of the Four Noble Truths) means the non-arising, or non-existence, of something because the cause of its arising is done away with. For example, the phrase “when Avijja is Nirodha, sankhara are also Nirodha,” which is usually taken to mean “with the cessation of ignorance, volitional impulses cease,” in fact means “when there is no ignorance, or no arising of ignorance, or when there is no longer any problem with ignorance, there are no volitional impulses, volitional impulses do not arise, or there is no longer any problem with volitional impulses.” It does not mean that ignorance already arisen must be done away with before the volitional impulses which have already arisen will also be done away with.

Where Nirodha should be rendered as cessation is when it is used in reference to the natural way of things, or the nature of compounded things. In this sense it is a synonym for the words bhanga, breaking up, anicca, transient, khaya, cessation or vaya, decay. For example, in the Pali it is given: imam kho bhikkhave tisso vedana anicca sankhata paticcasamuppanna khayadhamma vayadhamma viragadhamma nirodhadhamma: “Monks, these three kinds of feeling are naturally impermanent, compounded, dependently arisen, transient, subject to decay, dissolution, fading and cessation.”[s.IV.214] (All of the factors occurring in the Dependent Origination cycle have the same nature.) In this instance, the meaning is “all conditioned things (sankhara), having arisen, must inevitably decay and fade according to supporting factors.” There is no need to try to stop them, they cease of themselves. Here the intention is to describe a natural condition which, in terms of practice, simply means “that which arises can be done away with.”

As for Nirodha in the third Noble Truth (or the Dependent Origination cycle in cessation mode), although it also describes a natural process, its emphasis is on practical considerations. It is translated in two ways in the Visuddi Magga. One way traces the etymology to “ni” (without) + “rodha” (prison, confine, obstacle, wall, impediment), thus rendering the meaning as “without impediment,” “free of confinement.”

This is explained as “free of impediments, that is, the confinement of Samsara.” Another definition traces the origin to anuppada, meaning “not arising” and goes on to say “Nirodha here does not mean bhanga, breaking up and dissolution.”

Therefore, translating Nirodha as “cessation”, although not entirely wrong, is nevertheless not entirely accurate. On the other hand, there is no other word which comes so close to the essential meaning as “cessation.” However, we should understand what is meant by the term.

In this context, the Dependent Origination cycle in its cessation mode might be better rendered as “being free of ignorance, there is freedom from volitional impulses ...” or “when ignorance is gone, volitional impulses are gone ...” or “when ignorance ceases to give fruit, volitional impulses cease to give fruit ...” or “when ignorance is no longer a problem, volitional impulses are no longer a problem.”

 

 

(from The Mirror Post) 

Edited February 26, 2015 by C T

[C T]

"AH HO!!!! There is no greater happiness and joy than relaxing in our own natural state of mind, our own true nature! The syllable AH symbolizes the great emptiness that is pure from the beginning. In the inner tantras of Vajrayana, HO always symbolizes the expression of joy and happiness. This is the same in every country, even in different languages to some degree. It is an expression of joy from the primordial sound system.

 

AH HO means to relax in the natural rigpa state of the great true nature, radiating unconditional love, compassion, and wisdom throughout the universe to ourselves and to all beings. This activity is great joy; it is the source of great happiness."

 

Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches
Discovering Infinite Freedom (pgs 135-136)

[C T]

[C T]

"'Without compassion the root of Dharma practice is rotten'. If you somehow ignore compassion, even if you experience signs of progress in your Dzogchen meditation, your practice will become fragile, wither, and could even die. Therefore, in the beginning generate compassion, in the middle meditate on the absolute truth of the Dzogchen state, and in the end dedicate the merit. Practice like this in many short sessions with great joyful effort.

 

If you have all these beautiful components, and your meditation is still not as strong as you would like, don’t force yourself too much. Take a break and relax. Do other meritorious activities, and then return to meditation. If you keep practicing like this, with a gentle and balanced discipline, your meditation will become increasingly strong and stable. Eventually, the length of time you can abide in the absolute state during the daytime and while you are sleeping will become equal. You will naturally and continuously remain in the natural state. This is called the “full circle of day and night.” In Dzogchen this is called the “supreme state,” or namja chenpo. In Mahamudra it is called the stage of “non-meditation.”

 

Remember that at any time, different experiences can arise, such as visions. Do not be distracted. No matter what happens, until your realization is very stable, continue to cultivate bodhichitta, devotion, joyful effort, courage, and commitment, along with your Dzogchen meditation. Keep practicing the union of the two truths."

 

Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches
Pointing Out the Nature of Mind:
Dzogchen Pith instructions of Aro Yeshe Jungne (pg 134-135)

[doc benway]

So much good stuff - thanks CT

[C T]

Therefore it is said we must have sati. If we have sati we will see the state of our own mind. Whatever we are thinking or feeling we must know it. This knowing is called Buddho, the Buddha, the one who knows... who knows thoroughly, who knows clearly and completely. When the mind knows completely we find the right practice.
:
So the straight way to practice is to have mindfulness, sati. If you are without sati for five minutes you are crazy for five minutes, heedless for five minutes. whenever you are lacking in sati you are crazy. So sati is essential. To have sati is to know yourself, to know the condition of your mind and your life. This is to have understanding and discernment, to listen to the Dhamma at all times. After leaving the teacher's discourse, you still hear the Dhamma, because the Dhamma is everywhere.
:
- Ajahn Chah -

[C T]

A Song of Joy ~

 

All appearances are vast openness,

Blissful and utterly free.

 

With a free, happy mind
I sing this song of joy.

When one looks toward one's own mind -
The root of all phenomena -
There is nothing but vivid emptiness,
Nothing concrete there to be taken as real.

 

It is present and transparent, utter openness,
Without outside, without inside -
An all pervasiveness
Without boundary and without direction.

 

The wide-open expanse of the view,
The true condition of the mind,
Is like the sky, like space:
Without center, without edge, without goal.

 

By leaving whatever i experience
Relaxed in ease, just as it is,
I have arrived at the vast plain
That is the absolute expanse.

 

Dissolving into the expanse of emptiness
That has no limits and no boundary,
Everything i see, everything i hear,
My own mind, and the sky all merge.

 

Not once has the notion arisen
Of these being seperate and distinct.

In the absolute expanse of awareness
All things are blended into that single taste -
But, relatively, each and every phenomenom is distinctly,
clearly seen.

 

Wondrous!

 

~ Shabkar

[C T]

"Dzogchen is the highest teaching, therefore beings connected to Dzogchen are the most fortunate of the fortunate. We have this connection, so we have every reason to be delighted. Let’s use our time wisely and study and practice this teaching as much as we can. Results will certainly come. By studying and practicing Dzogchen with great joyful effort, many diligent practitioners attained enlightenment within their lifetime. Some even attained the wisdom rainbow body. They recognized and appreciated their connection to the teachings, and built on it. They practiced and persevered. They did not allow circumstances to deter them—they completed their spiritual journey. If we do as they did, we can definitely achieve the same result."

 

Always a Very Important teaching:
Practicing Dzogchen Meditation, Ngondro, and Four Thoughts That Turn the Mind to the Dharma 

 

 

~ Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches
The Beauty of Awakened Mind:
Dzogchen Lineage of the Great Master Shigpo Dudtsi (pg 106)

[doc benway]

Edited March 7, 2015 by steve