Seeing, Recognising & Maintaining One's Enlightening Potential

[doc benway]

Silence is not the absence of sound,

    it is the absence of self.

        - Anthony DeMello

[Stosh]

"chloroform in print"

[manitou]

I think you may be imposing a moral question onto an amoral reality.  In the big picture - no, it doesn't matter who lives and dies.  It doesn't matter if one kills another.  Once the guy is dead, he's just fine, consciousness remains.  It's all the same thing - like a huge monster with a zillion appendages, losing one and gaining another.  There is no good or bad attached to it, no moral judgment.  This is a component of enlightenment.

 

The dream in which we live, we have imposed morality.  And there are consequences to our choices.  You will sit in prison for a very long time if you kill another.  And if you think of reincarnation as a possibility, then certainly the intent of the killing action will have consequence as to how you will return.  It's neither good nor bad if you return as a worm.  It just is.

 

Even the idea of chloroform in print is adding a value judgment.

[Stosh]

I think you may be imposing a moral question onto an amoral reality.  In the big picture - no, it doesn't matter who lives and dies.  It doesn't matter if one kills another.  Once the guy is dead, he's just fine, consciousness remains.  It's all the same thing - like a huge monster with a zillion appendages, losing one and gaining another.  There is no good or bad attached to it, no moral judgment.  This is a component of enlightenment.

 

The dream in which we live, we have imposed morality.  And there are consequences to our choices.  You will sit in prison for a very long time if you kill another.  And if you think of reincarnation as a possibility, then certainly the intent of the killing action will have consequence as to how you will return.  It's neither good nor bad if you return as a worm.  It just is.

 

Even the idea of chloroform in print is adding a value judgment.

A bold sentiment , and true from the perspective you speak of. The thing is , though I held this idea firmly myself , when it comes right down to nuts and bolts daily living , I don't like it, don't really condone it, don't know anyone who truly sees no difference ,having no moral-or value judgement whatsoever. Would such a person , having this perspective, be in accord with compassion as you understand it , or would this person be anathema , dangerous etc? ( adult and functioning person)

Edited April 19, 2017 by Stosh

[C T]

Buddhism 1O1: Ultimately, nothing matters; Relatively, everything matters. 

 

Keep the view on the ultimate, but observe constant vigilance in daily conduct of body, speech and mind, so says Guru Padmasambhava. There is no margin for acting inconsequentially and callously for those who are serious dharma practitioners. 

[Stosh]

Great answer. Thanks.

[C T]

To understand how delusion arises, practice watching your mind. Begin by simply letting it relax. Without thinking of the past or the future, without feeling hope or fear about this thing or that, let it rest comfortably, open and natural. In this space of the mind, there is no problem, no suffering.

 

Then something catches your attention - an image, a sound, a smell. Your mind splits into inner and outer, self and other, subject and object. In simply perceiving the object, there is still no problem. But when you zero in on it, you notice that it's big or small, white or black, square or circular; and then you make a judgment - for example, whether it's pretty or ugly. Having made that judgment, you react to it: you decide you like it or don't like it. That's when the problem starts, because "I like it" leads to "I want it." We want to possess what we perceive to be desirable. Similarly, "I don't like it" leads to "I don't want it." If we like something, want it, and can't have it, we suffer. If we don't want it, but can't keep it away, again we suffer.

 

Our suffering seems to occur because of the object of our desire or aversion, but that's not really so - it happens because the mind splits into object-subject duality and becomes involved in wanting or not wanting something.

 

~ Chagdud Tulku ~ 

[Stosh]

I recognize this , and see the prompt response, feel the quick tension at some noise, and let that go, but , what am I supposed to do with this ,now noticing it?

I tolerate some tension , is that important ?

Edited May 6, 2017 by Stosh

[C T]

I recognize this , and see the prompt response, feel the quick tension at some noise, and let that go, but , what am I supposed to do with this ,now noticing it?

I tolerate some tension , is that important ?

at that point, it is said that the observer proceeds to find out, or become acquainted with this 'I', in a manner which allows insight into whether the I is self-arising, or other-arising, meaning, is this I a permanent, unchanging entity, or does it arise only in relation to objects formed by sensual contact? 

[Stosh]

Oh, ok, I m trying to make a concerted effort to understand the mental landscape from the buddhist point of view, in a way promotive of my own progress. So there are things I need to reconcile , and present to you , in order to do that. Please bear with me.

HHDL , funds a program which is aimed at this , and I think its a wise and modern effort to make.

The speaker he had , Bro Billy Tan ? Said that info is processed by the amygdala before the frontal lobes even see the data., dualistic emotional content has already assessed and assigned before we are even aware of the source, and so Some questions arise on their own , simply attempting to be clear on what is being indicated.

Is it the amygdala's processing to be the problemaic self people keep calling ego,?

If this ego filtering happens before my frontal lobe self gets the data, What method is there to overcome ones reflexive assessment ? which doesnt demand constant attention all day long to squash the emotional content attatched to literally every shape I see ,noise I hear etc.

[manitou]

Maybe approach it from a different direction to get the desired result instead of nuts and boltsy.  I read the most wonderful thing in Vasistha's Yoga that stayed with me.  If a pot is sitting on a table, there is space inside the pot.  If you move the pot, the space inside doesn't go with it. It stays right there, and the pot now contains new space.   For some reason, that really resonates with me.

 

As we walk through space, although it seems like we're taking it with us, we're not.  It's as if we're a ghost moving through air.  When viewed from a perspective like this, it seems easier (to me) to realize that matter isn't solid at all, that it's all the same substance, that it's not necessary to differentiate between this thing and that thing, to label it as good or bad.  It's all the same thing, the same no-thing.

 

This state of mind in and of itself is a Practice. To remember to remember this throughout the day, as often as possible, so that one day that is the default mindset and differentiation is defunct.  We become capable of straddling either world.

[silent thunder]

I cannot (and have no desire to) shake the very palpable sense that space is as sentient and alive as i myself am.

[manitou]

I cannot (and have no desire to) shake the very palpable sense that space is as sentient and alive as i myself am.

 

Space is where it's at.

[Stosh]

Im a nuts and bolts version kind of guy.. It would just be nice to get to the next page for a change.

Page 1, breathe,,something something,, then , you enter nirvana. the end.

Its a little like daoism ,where they really only cover chapter 1

In the begininng ,it was mysterious, ,,argue argue no concensus , the end.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Stosh

[cold]

argument

Edited May 6, 2017 by cold

[C T]

Oh, ok, I m trying to make a concerted effort to understand the mental landscape from the buddhist point of view, in a way promotive of my own progress. So there are things I need to reconcile , and present to you , in order to do that. Please bear with me.

HHDL , funds a program which is aimed at this , and I think its a wise and modern effort to make.

The speaker he had , Bro Billy Tan ? Said that info is processed by the amygdala before the frontal lobes even see the data., dualistic emotional content has already assessed and assigned before we are even aware of the source, and so Some questions arise on their own , simply attempting to be clear on what is being indicated.

Is it the amygdala's processing to be the problemaic self people keep calling ego,?

If this ego filtering happens before my frontal lobe self gets the data, What method is there to overcome ones reflexive assessment ? which doesnt demand constant attention all day long to squash the emotional content attatched to literally every shape I see ,noise I hear etc.

In my view, i dont see how the natural mental processes are innately problematic, since they are essentially necessary to function in daily life. What is potentially problematic are the tendencies (or habitual reflexes) that i am not aware of and because of this ignorance of the subtle 'hooks', it could lead to the superimposition of deluded thoughts on to the initial data, which then spins off in diverse directions and often creates emotional ripples which we are told have the power to lead one astray and cause other agitative or harmful reactions. In order to address this, according to Buddhist methods, a practitioner turns to practices that increase mindfulness and awareness. There are numerous methods and practices for this, but fundamentally they all condense into a combined practice called shamatha and vipassana. 

 

I dont know if you had read the article by the Dalai Lama posted by Dwai not too long ago. It might help to clarify your question, which is actually a very good one. 

 

The link to the article: https://www.lionsroa...most-awareness/ 

Edited May 7, 2017 by C T

[manitou]

thank you for that wonderful link, CT.

 

PAT !

 

There is a void that can be sensed within, I sense it as dark and warm and vast; it is comforting to know that this void is within everyone else too, within every thing.  Rendering the universe as a friendly place.  Like a womb, where wherever you are is home.

[C T]

Duality is suffering.

 

Duality is the real root of our suffering and of all our conflicts. All our concepts and beliefs, no matter how profound they may seem, are like nets which trap us in dualism. When we discover our limits we have to try to overcome them, untying ourselves from whatever type of religious, political, or social conviction that may contain us. We have to abandon such concepts as 'enlightenment', 'the nature of the mind', and so on, until we no longer neglect to integrate our knowledge with our actual existence.

 

~ C. N. Norbu Rinpoche ~ 

[C T]

I bow to my own mind

that dispels mind's ignorance

by eliminating the mind-sprung web

through this very mind itself. 

 

Sentient beings with their various inclinations

picture different kinds of gods,

but our precious mind cannot be established 

as any other god than complete liberation. 

 

~ Nagarjuna's Cittavajrastava (Song of the Diamond of the Mind) ~ 

[No One]

I am just a crooked frog.

 

 

And I am at present a crooked thug.

Edited May 9, 2017 by No One

[C T]

THE BUDDHA SPEAKS

 

The Venerable Subhuti again asked the Buddha, “World-Honored One, if good women or men would give rise to the ultimate, most fulfilled, awakened mind, how should they stand, how should they move, and how should they control their thoughts?”

 

The Buddha replied, “Subhuti, a good woman or man who would give rise to the ulti­mate, most fulfilled, awakened mind should produce this thought: ‘I must lead all beings to nir­vana, to that liberation which leaves nothing behind, yet when all beings have thus been liber­ated, no being has been liberated.’ And why? Subhuti, if in a bodhisattva the idea of a self, a person, a being, or a separate existence, should arise, that bodhisattva could not be called a bod­hisattva. And why? A true bodhisattva is not an independently existing object of mind.

 

What do you think, Subhuti? In the past, when the Tathagata was with Dipankara Buddha, was there any dharma by which he came to know supreme enlightenment?”

 

“No, World-Honored One. As I understand the teachings of the Buddha, there was no dharma by which the Tathagata has known supreme enlightenment.”

 

The Buddha said, “Right you are, Subhuti. It is for this reason that the Buddha Dipankara predicted of me, ‘In the future you will be a Buddha, supremely enlightened, and you will be called Shakyamuni.’ And why? Tathagata is synonymous with true Suchness (of all dharmas). To say that the Tathagata has attained the ultimate, most fulfilled awakened mind would be to speak falsely since there is no one specific dharma by which the Tathagata has fully known supreme enlightenment. Subhuti, the ultimate, most fulfilled, awakened mind that the Tathagata has attained is neither graspable nor elusive. This is why the Tathagata has said, ‘All dharmas are Buddhadharma,’ for what the Tathagata teaches as all dharmas is no-dharma. That is why all dharmas are called Buddhadharma.

 

“Subhuti, consider a man of gigantic frame.”

Subhuti said, “What the Tathagata calls ‘gigantic frame’ has been taught by the Tathagata as no frame at all.”

“So it is, Subhuti. Thus the bodhisattva who thinks, ‘I will lead all beings to nirvana,’ cannot be called a bodhisattva. And why? Subhuti, is there any independently existing thing called ‘bodhisattva’?”

“No, World-Honored One, there is not.”

 

“Therefore,” the Buddha continued, “the Tathagata teaches that all dharmas are without a self, a person, a being, or a separate existence. Even if a bodhisattva wished to create a serene, harmonious, and tranquil Buddha field, that bodhisattva cannot be called a bodhisattva. And why? What is called a serene, harmonious, and tranquil Buddha field is a no-Buddha field, as taught by the Tathagata. Therefore the Tathagata speaks of a serene, harmonious, and tranquil Buddha field.

 

Subhuti, any bodhisattva who thoroughly understands that all dharmas are without self is called by the Tathagata a bodhisattva of great courage.”

 

 

In honour of Shakyamuni Buddha this Vesak. 

May all find happiness and the root of happiness. 

 

[C T]

Is enlightenment an articulatable experience, or a gradual emptying of sense-based ideas & experiences,

where one begins earnestly to communicate with self and others from what feels like heart-space,

often requiring only a silent yet resonating communion? 

[C T]

Philosophies or religions might say, “Things are illusion, the world is maya, illusion,” but there are always one or two items left behind that are regarded as truly existent: God, cosmic energy, whatever. In Buddhism, this is not the case. Everything in samsara and nirvana—from the Buddha’s head to a piece of bread—everything is emptiness. There is nothing that is not included in ultimate truth.

 

~ Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche ~ 

[manitou]

On 5/13/2017 at 4:11 AM, C T said:

Is enlightenment an articulatable experience, or a gradual emptying of sense-based ideas & experiences,

where one begins earnestly to communicate with self and others from what feels like heart-space,

often requiring only a silent yet resonating communion? 

 

 

It's strange that the desire to articulate diminishes more and more over the years.  Heart-space feels the same here as it does there, or anywhere.  Vast.

[C T]

Some people think karma is fate. “It must be my karma,” they sigh, resigning themselves to some calamity. But karma doesn’t have to be bad. It can be good. And we make our own karma. Every thought, feeling, and deed sows a habitual karmic seed in our mind that ripens into a corresponding positive, negative, or neutral experience. Anger and jealousy manifest as painful, unhappy experiences. Selfless, joyful thoughts and feelings flower into wondrous, fulfilling experiences.

 

So we don’t have to resign ourselves to “our karma.” We control our karma. Every moment is a new juncture, a chance to improve our way of thinking and thus our circumstances. This principle of interdependent causation is the bedrock of the Buddha’s first teachings, the four noble truths.

 

~ Tulku Thondup Rinpoche ~