Seeing, Recognising & Maintaining One's Enlightening Potential

[Jeff]

19 minutes ago, C T said:

Its fascinating that 'tough love' exists only within the human spectrum. Animals have no concept of it, and definitely do not respond to it the way humans do. Thats why I love dogs... they respond so well to unconditional kindness, so well in fact that we can learn much about our own capacity for empathy thru the interactions, but the moment we try to curtail their spontaneity and encroach on their naturalness, they immediately begin to develop distrust. I think most, if not all animals, would be the same.

 

Tough love may not, after all, be a good measure of response, I believe. If it does not work on animals, which have a narrower emotional range, it certainly needs to be investigated if such a response is appropriate for humans.  

 

I think you have misunderstood my meaning. 

 

If someone is addicted to drugs, you don’t give them more drugs to temporarily ease their immediate suffering. You take the much harder and tougher path of helping them break the addiction. That person may hate you every moment of that process, but responding steadfastly and not getting caught up in the emotion is to me is the true meaning of compassion. It may appear “tough”, but it is an infinitely more loving compassion.

 

I love dogs too, but a dog is incapable of such compassion. A dog would lovingly give you the drugs and lick your face while it did it. 

[Apech]

9 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

I think you have misunderstood my meaning. 

 

If someone is addicted to drugs, you don’t give them more drugs to temporarily ease their immediate suffering. You take the much harder and tougher path of helping them break the addiction. That person may hate you every moment of that process, but responding steadfastly and not getting caught up in the emotion is to me is the true meaning of compassion. It may appear “tough”, but it is an infinitely more loving compassion.

 

I love dogs too, but a dog is incapable of such compassion. A dog would lovingly give you the drugs and lick your face while it did it. 

 

A pilgrim of the way asked the Grand Master Zhaozhou, "Does a dog have Buddha nature or not?" Zhaozhou said, "Mu."

[C T]

10 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

I think you have misunderstood my meaning. 

 

If someone is addicted to drugs, you don’t give them more drugs to temporarily ease their immediate suffering. You take the much harder and tougher path of helping them break the addiction. That person may hate you every moment of that process, but responding steadfastly and not getting caught up in the emotion is to me is the true meaning of compassion. It may appear “tough”, but it is an infinitely more loving compassion.

 

I love dogs too, but a dog is incapable of such compassion. A dog would lovingly give you the drugs and lick your face while it did it. 

 

I did get the meaning. 

Wasn't being critical... was just musing on the good points you brought up, thats all. 

[C T]

As a water bead on a lotus leaf, as water on a red lily does not adhere,

so the sage does not adhere to the seen, the heard, or the sensed. 

 

~ Jara Sutta ~ 

[C T]

One way or another, directly or indirectly, all emotions are born from selfishness in the sense that they involve clinging to the self. Moreover, Siddhartha discovered that, as real as they may seem, emotions are not an inherent part of one’s being. They are not inborn, nor are they some sort of curse or implant that someone or some god has thrust upon us.

 

Emotions arise when particular causes and conditions come together, such as when you rush to think that someone is criticizing you, ignoring you, or depriving you of some gain. Then the corresponding emotions arise. The moment we accept those emotions, the moment we buy into them, we have lost awareness and sanity. We are “worked up.”

 

Thus Siddhartha found the solution — awareness. If you seriously wish to eliminate suffering, you must generate awareness, tend to your emotions, and learn how to avoid getting worked up. If you examine emotions as Siddhartha did, if you try to identify their origin, you will find that they are rooted in misunderstanding and thus fundamentally flawed. All emotions are basically a form of prejudice; within each emotion there is always an element of judgment.

 

~ Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche ~ 

[C T]

Mind is by its very nature empty, yet appearances arise from it without obstruction. Out of the unobstructed emptiness of mind the whole range of appearances can manifest without limit. On a relative level, phenomena manifest through dependent origination; this is inseparable from the emptiness of mind, which is the ultimate level. Freedom from extremes is realizing that emptiness and dependent origination are one and do not contradict each other. Confusion lies neither in the appearance of things, nor in the fact that they are manifested by mind, but in one’s own misunderstanding of the emptiness and luminosity of mind.

 

~ 3rd Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche ~ 

[Bindi]

4 hours ago, C T said:

One way or another, directly or indirectly, all emotions are born from selfishness in the sense that they involve clinging to the self. Moreover, Siddhartha discovered that, as real as they may seem, emotions are not an inherent part of one’s being. They are not inborn, nor are they some sort of curse or implant that someone or some god has thrust upon us.

 

Emotions arise when particular causes and conditions come together, such as when you rush to think that someone is criticizing you, ignoring you, or depriving you of some gain. Then the corresponding emotions arise. The moment we accept those emotions, the moment we buy into them, we have lost awareness and sanity. We are “worked up.”

 

Thus Siddhartha found the solution — awareness. If you seriously wish to eliminate suffering, you must generate awareness, tend to your emotions, and learn how to avoid getting worked up. If you examine emotions as Siddhartha did, if you try to identify their origin, you will find that they are rooted in misunderstanding and thus fundamentally flawed. All emotions are basically a form of prejudice; within each emotion there is always an element of judgment.

 

~ Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche ~ 

 

Is a non-emotional state considered to be ideal? 

[C T]

25 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 

Is a non-emotional state considered to be ideal? 

 

Im not sure, but i think in the Buddhist teachings the encouragement is to learn how to cut the root of emotional reactivity by way of cultivating increased mindfulness (or awareness), and also the 6 paramitas, which together works like a balm or antidote that gradually pacifies the root cause of negative emotionally-reactive states so that one can maintain a level of diligence and enough foresight so as not to put oneself so far back against a wall, as if leaving some room where there is some space in which a different response can be accessed if one so chooses. That diligence and foresight are said to be two of the fruits of meditation practice on the 6 paramitas. 

[C T]

Within the sky-like empty mind, habitual tendencies and disturbing emotions are just like clouds and mist. When they appear, they appear within the expanse of empty mind. When they remain, they remain within the expanse of empty mind. And when they dissolve, they dissolve in that same expanse of empty mind.

 

~ Guru Rinpoche ~

[manitou]

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 1:36 PM, C T said:

One way or another, directly or indirectly, all emotions are born from selfishness in the sense that they involve clinging to the self. Moreover, Siddhartha discovered that, as real as they may seem, emotions are not an inherent part of one’s being. They are not inborn, nor are they some sort of curse or implant that someone or some god has thrust upon us.

 

Emotions arise when particular causes and conditions come together, such as when you rush to think that someone is criticizing you, ignoring you, or depriving you of some gain. Then the corresponding emotions arise. The moment we accept those emotions, the moment we buy into them, we have lost awareness and sanity. We are “worked up.”

 

Thus Siddhartha found the solution — awareness. If you seriously wish to eliminate suffering, you must generate awareness, tend to your emotions, and learn how to avoid getting worked up. If you examine emotions as Siddhartha did, if you try to identify their origin, you will find that they are rooted in misunderstanding and thus fundamentally flawed. All emotions are basically a form of prejudice; within each emotion there is always an element of judgment.

 

~ Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche ~ 

 

 

I think this is truly enlightening.

 

What it says to me is to find the real self underlying the egoic false self.  The real self has no emotions, just dwells in a state of awareness or consciousness.  The egoic false self is a result of all the conditioning we have undergone since birth, or as one wise one would say 'before our parents teach us our name'.

 

Our human nature cannot escape a degree of emotion, as that is our condition.  To awaken is to realize that's not our real self.  It's not to walk around dead-brained, but to realize the reality underlying the emotions.  Who and what we really are, not the separate egos as manifested through the lens of different experiences and conditionings.

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by manitou

[ilumairen]

On 2/15/2018 at 5:18 PM, Jeff said:

 

Excellent point and often misunderstood. Clarity and not caught up in perceived emotional sympathy.

 

And at the time it can seem like very tough love.  

I don't believe the concept of tough love applies here. The very concept of it seems to be in contradiction to the naturally, and spontaneously, arising warmth found in the emptiness and clear light of our natural state. 

 

It is a looking to correct the actions of others, and prescribed action for oneself - under the guise of benefice. And still very caught up in the concepts it (the quoted passage) is pointing beyond. 

 

*edited to include "quoted passage" for the sake of clarity in expression. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by ilumairen

[C T]

The Two Accumulations of Merit and Wisdom

 

The very essence of the Buddhist teachings, the Buddha Dharma, is to cut through fixation. Fixation and attachment are the roots of samsara; they bind us to samsara. Mind has the capacity to generate powerful thoughts which can serve to loosen up our fixations on samsara. Thoughts that carry such power are known as ‘conceptual merit’.

 

The purpose of accumulating conceptual merit is to change our negative patterns into virtuous ones, to loosen up our habitual fixation on negativity. Eventually, the gathering of conceptual merit brings fixation to an end, allowing wisdom to dawn. Once grasping and fixation have gone, the Buddha nature is revealed and can be recognized. The power of merit ultimately leads to the dawn of wisdom, the recognition of our Buddha nature.

 

To attain enlightenment one must gather the two accumulations, the ‘accumulation of conceptual merit’ and the ‘accumulation of non-conceptual wisdom’. One truly possesses relative bodhicitta only through having gathered considerable conceptual merit. Therefore, the Bodhisattva-caryavatara teaches many methods for generating conceptual merit.

 

When relative bodhicitta has firmly taken root in your mind, you are able to generate a power of merit through which absolute bodhicitta, non-conceptual wisdom, can arise. Non-conceptual wisdom is none other than the recognition of the Buddha nature, egolessness, profound emptiness. This recognition is beyond thoughts; it utterly cuts through all fixation on samsara.

 

The practice of relative bodhicitta furthers the accumulation of merit; the practice of absolute bodhicitta furthers the accumulation of wisdom.

 

In addition to gathering the two accumulations, one must also purify the two obscurations. These are the obscurations of afflictions and the obscurations of cognition.

 

To attain enlightenment, both, meaning the perfection of the two accumulations, and purification of the two obscurations, have to commence together. 

 

Generally, one can say that the two accumulations are the remedies for the two obscurations. The accumulation of conceptual merit remedies the obscuration of the gross afflictions, and the accumulation of non-conceptual wisdom remedies the remaining subtle levels of afflictions and the obscurations of cognition."

 

~ HE Dzogchen Khenpo Choga Rinpoche ~

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by C T

[manitou]

LOL.  This cracks me up.  We, in our constant stream of metaphysical discussion, have to be among the most cognitive on the planet.  Shall we have a group purification of obscurative cognition?

[Michael Sternbach]

On 15.2.2018 at 11:00 PM, C T said:

“In Dzokchen, compassion is much more than the virtue of loving kindness. Nor does the word compassion in the Dzokchen context denote its English etymological meaning, “suffering together” or “empathy,” although both these meanings may be inferred. Essentially, compassion indicates an open and receptive mind responding spontaneously to the exigencies of an ever-changing field of vibration to sustain the optimal awareness that serves self-and-others’ ultimate desire for liberation and well-being. The conventional meaning of compassion denotes the latter, active part of this definition, and, due to the accretions of Christian connotation, response is limited specifically to virtuous activity. “Responsiveness” defines the origin and cause of selfless activity that can encompass all manner of response. On this nondual Dzokchen path, virtue is the effect, not the cause; the ultimate compassionate response is whatever action maximizes Knowledge — loving kindness is the automatic function of Awareness.”

 

~ Keith Dowman - Flight of the Garuda ~ 

 

On 15.2.2018 at 11:18 PM, Jeff said:

 

Excellent point and often misunderstood. Clarity and not caught up in perceived emotional sympathy.

 

And at the time it can seem like very tough love.  

 

On 16.2.2018 at 0:36 AM, Jeff said:

 

I think you have misunderstood my meaning. 

 

If someone is addicted to drugs, you don’t give them more drugs to temporarily ease their immediate suffering. You take the much harder and tougher path of helping them break the addiction. That person may hate you every moment of that process, but responding steadfastly and not getting caught up in the emotion is to me is the true meaning of compassion. It may appear “tough”, but it is an infinitely more loving compassion.

 

I love dogs too, but a dog is incapable of such compassion. A dog would lovingly give you the drugs and lick your face while it did it. 

 

This brings to mind a continuous debate I used to have with the psychiatrist I was collaborating with back in the 1990's. I was counselling a number of his patients based on astrology and Tarot, and also treating them with the Bach Flower Remedies. An issue arose because, in numerous cases of drug addiction we were dealing with, he was more of the "tough love" school of thought, aiming to deprive the patient of the stuff they were craving. Whereas my approach was one of non-resistance and self-acceptance, as a prerequisite for understanding oneself (and that's where the clarity part comes into play) and finding sensible ways to deal with those self-destructive behaviour patterns.

 

"Breaking the addiction" was not my primary concern, however, the outlined process generally led the patient to a more reasonable handling of whatever they were addicted to - in many cases eventually enabling them to let it go completely when ready.

 

The "tough love" approach, however, is essentially dualistic (or you might call it samsaric) and in fact often worsens the issue, especially in the long run. The path of acceptance is loving (non-dualistic) and leads to lasting insights. This is a fundamental teaching in many spiritual philosophies, including Daoism and, indeed, Dzogchen (at least as it was taught  by Dawa Gyaltsen).

 

I think that Ilumairen's comment on your "tough love" statement ties in rather well with the aforesaid:

 

7 hours ago, ilumairen said:

I don't believe the concept of tough love applies here. The very concept of it seems to be in contradiction to the naturally, and spontaneously, arising warmth found in the emptiness and clear light of our natural state. 

 

It is a looking to correct the actions of others, and prescribed action for oneself - under the guise of benefice. And still very caught up in the concepts it (the quoted passage) is pointing beyond. 

 

*edited to include "quoted passage" for the sake of clarity in expression. 

 

For it is indeed "the naturally, and spontaneously, arising warmth" that has the greatest potential to induce self-acceptance, clarity and self-determined change.

 

Would this be in line with what you mean, Ilumairen?

[Jeff]

Again, I think you misunderstand my meaning... The “drug addict” is the analogy for the person trapped in the illusion of mind. You help others to see clearly or you don’t...

 

Chapter 27 of the Tao Te Ching describes my meaning perfectly...

 

A good walker leaves no tracks;

A good speaker makes no slips;

A good reckoner needs no tally.

A good door needs no lock, Yet no one can open it.

Good binding requires no knots, Yet no one can loosen it.

Therefore the wise take care of everyone And abandon no one.

They take care of all things And abandon nothing.

This is called “following the light.”

What is a good person? The teacher of a bad person.

What is a bad person? A good person’s charge.

If the teacher is not respected, And the student not cared for,

Confusion will arise, however clever one is.

This is the crux of mystery.

 

The wise take care of everyone and abandon no one. This is called “following the light”... and is the crux of (the) mystery.

 

Or, as CT posted above...

 

The very essence of the Buddhist teachings, the Buddha Dharma, is to cut through fixation. Fixation and attachment are the roots of samsara; they bind us to samsara.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Jeff

[C T]

9 hours ago, manitou said:

LOL.  This cracks me up.  We, in our constant stream of metaphysical discussion, have to be among the most cognitive on the planet.  Shall we have a group purification of obscurative cognition?

 

Any insight gleaned from any of the posts here is an accumulation, and the odd disagreement could well indicate purification. 

There should be no expectation of immediately apparent results, but the seeds continue to be sown. We should not worry too much about the results, but instead simply focus on joyfully planting the seeds of Dharma. 

[Jeff]

Translated from Sanskrit into Chinese in the Tang Dynasty
by
The Tripiṭaka Master Prajñā from Kophen

Fascicle 40 (of 40)

At that time Samantabhadra Bodhisattva-Mahāsattva, having praised  Tathāgatas’ merit, said to the Bodhisattvas and the youth Sudhana: “Good men, if Buddhas [in worlds] in the ten directions expound Tathāgatas’ merit continuously for as many kalpas as there are dust particles in innumerable Buddha Lands, they still can never finish their narrations. If one wants to go through this Merit Door, one should train in the ten great vowed actions. What are these ten?

First, make obeisance to Buddhas.
Second, praise Tathāgatas.
Third, make expansive offerings.
Fourth, repent of karma, the cause of hindrances.
Fifth, express sympathetic joy over others’ merits.
Sixth, request Buddhas to turn the Dharma wheel.
Seventh, beseech Buddhas to abide in the world.
Eighth, always follow Buddhas to learn.
Ninth, forever support sentient beings.
Tenth, universally transfer all merits to others.”

http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra21.html

[C T]

 

As they draw near to the nature of things
The words of the learned become mute.
All phenomena, subtle by their very nature,
Are said to be beyond expression in words or thoughts.

The mind is placed in the nature of the emptiness of all things.
In this samsara, thick with the mirages of appearances
That even the Tathagata’s hand cannot stop,
Who can let go of belief in existence and non-existence.

 

~ Gendun Chophel ~ 

[manitou]

1 hour ago, C T said:

 

Any insight gleaned from any of the posts here is an accumulation, and the odd disagreement could well indicate purification. 

There should be no expectation of immediately apparent results, but the seeds continue to be sown. We should not worry too much about the results, but instead simply focus on joyfully planting the seeds of Dharma. 

 

 

Agreed.  However, we do spend much time dancing around the unknowable mystery.

[cold]

1 minute ago, manitou said:

 

 

Agreed.  However, we do spend much time dancing around the unknowable mystery.

 

Odd that need to dance up to the edge of the unknown...

[C T]

5 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

Agreed.  However, we do spend much time dancing around the unknowable mystery.

 

maybe dancing 'in'? 

[Jeff]

Deleted - IPad misfire...  

Edited February 20, 2018 by Jeff

[Marblehead]

WoW!  Even Jeff is deleting posts.

 

[C T]

"Gradually I began to recognize how feeble and transitory the thoughts and emotions that had troubled me for years actually were, and how fixating on small problems had turned them into big ones. Just by sitting quietly and observing how rapidly, and in many ways illogically, my thoughts and emotions came and went, I began to recognize in a direct way that they weren't nearly as solid or real as they appeared to be. And once I began to let go of my belief in the story they seemed to tell, I began to see the 'author' behind them - the infinitely vast, infinitely open awareness that is the nature of mind.

 

Any attempt to capture the direct experience of the nature of mind in words is impossible. The best that can be said is that the experience is immeasurably peaceful, and, once stabilized through repeated experience, virtually unshakeable. It's an experience of absolute well-being that radiates through all physical, emotional, and mental states - even those that might be ordinarily labelled as unpleasant. This sense of well-being, regardless of the fluctuation of outer and inner experiences, is one of the clearest ways to understand what Buddhists mean by 'happiness'."

 

 

~ Mingyur Rinpoche ~ 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by C T

[Michael Sternbach]

On 20.2.2018 at 5:13 AM, Michael Sternbach said:

 

 

 

This brings to mind a continuous debate I used to have with the psychiatrist I was collaborating with back in the 1990's. I was counselling a number of his patients based on astrology and Tarot, and also treating them with the Bach Flower Remedies. An issue arose because, in numerous cases of drug addiction we were dealing with, he was more of the "tough love" school of thought, aiming to deprive the patient of the stuff they were craving. Whereas my approach was one of non-resistance and self-acceptance, as a prerequisite for understanding oneself (and that's where the clarity part comes into play) and finding sensible ways to deal with those self-destructive behaviour patterns.

 

"Breaking the addiction" was not my primary concern, however, the outlined process generally led the patient to a more reasonable handling of whatever they were addicted to - in many cases eventually enabling them to let it go completely when ready.

 

The "tough love" approach, however, is essentially dualistic (or you might call it samsaric) and in fact often worsens the issue, especially in the long run. The path of acceptance is loving (non-dualistic) and leads to lasting insights. This is a fundamental teaching in many spiritual philosophies, including Daoism and, indeed, Dzogchen (at least as it was taught  by Dawa Gyaltsen).

 

I think that Ilumairen's comment on your "tough love" statement ties in rather well with the aforesaid:

 

 

For it is indeed "the naturally, and spontaneously, arising warmth" that has the greatest potential to induce self-acceptance, clarity and self-determined change.

 

Would this be in line with what you mean, Ilumairen?

 

On 20.2.2018 at 1:14 PM, Jeff said:

Again, I think you misunderstand my meaning... The “drug addict” is the analogy for the person trapped in the illusion of mind. You help others to see clearly or you don’t...

 

Chapter 27 of the Tao Te Ching describes my meaning perfectly...

 

A good walker leaves no tracks;

A good speaker makes no slips;

A good reckoner needs no tally.

A good door needs no lock, Yet no one can open it.

Good binding requires no knots, Yet no one can loosen it.

Therefore the wise take care of everyone And abandon no one.

They take care of all things And abandon nothing.

This is called “following the light.”

What is a good person? The teacher of a bad person.

What is a bad person? A good person’s charge.

If the teacher is not respected, And the student not cared for,

Confusion will arise, however clever one is.

This is the crux of mystery.

 

The wise take care of everyone and abandon no one. This is called “following the light”... and is the crux of (the) mystery.

 

Or, as CT posted above...

 

The very essence of the Buddhist teachings, the Buddha Dharma, is to cut through fixation. Fixation and attachment are the roots of samsara; they bind us to samsara.

 

Of course, the principles I was talking about in above post are not limited to cases of drug addiction in a narrower sense in their application. The addiction could be to anything at all, including "attachments" in general, as the term is used in Buddhist parlance.

 

It would still be much better to gently guide the sufferer or seeker to self-discovery rather than trying to change their inclinations in a forceful manner, as concepts like "cutting through fixation" and "tough love" suggest.