Just started reading Tao, The Pathless Path

[satsujin]

Hello TaoBums and other users,

 

I am 36 year old epileptic man. Still unemployed and dependent on my parents. The few times I held a job I started becoming unconscious at work. Got to the point where even my father refused to hire me. My doctors claim stress is the trigger to my seizures. I have also had a few psychotic episodes. In a few months, they are going to assign me to an assisted living facility somewhere in India. Not sure about the details. I will become a trust fund baby when they pass away but they don't believe I can survive on my own. I never thought of myself as disabled, I am not sure if I should fight against this path or accept it until it is no longer an option.

 

I am currently reading The Empty Boat and The Pathless Path by Osho. Only a little way in but makes for interesting reading. Hope I can ask question about my doubts and get clarifications through this forum,

 

Regards,

Anoop Alex

 

[soaring crane]

Hello satsujin, and welcome to the forums!

 

Glad you found your way to us. Thank you for the very personal and honest introduction.

 

Please take the time to read the two posts pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum terms and rules. This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

SC and the TTB team

[GrandmasterP]

Welcome to TTB satsujin.

There's an Osho book called 'When the shoe fits' which is based on Chuang Tzu (Taoist text).

It's a personal favourite and maybe you might like it too.

http://www.oshorajneesh.com/download/osho-books/Tao/When_the_Shoe_Fits.pdf

Edited January 3, 2015 by GrandmasterP

[kio]

Hello TaoBums and other users,

 

I am 36 year old epileptic man. Still unemployed and dependent on my parents. The few times I held a job I started becoming unconscious at work. Got to the point where even my father refused to hire me. My doctors claim stress is the trigger to my seizures. I have also had a few psychotic episodes. In a few months, they are going to assign me to an assisted living facility somewhere in India. Not sure about the details. I will become a trust fund baby when they pass away but they don't believe I can survive on my own. I never thought of myself as disabled, I am not sure if I should fight against this path or accept it until it is no longer an option.

 

I am currently reading The Empty Boat and The Pathless Path by Osho. Only a little way in but makes for interesting reading. Hope I can ask question about my doubts and get clarifications through this forum,

 

Regards,

Anoop Alex

 

Hey satsujin,

Kool name

 

Did you know that most shamans go through episodes of epilepsy and psychotic breakdowns? (According to Mircea Eliade)

 

 

[soaring crane]

Welcome to TTB satsujin.

There's an Osho book called 'When the shoe fits' which is based on Chuang Tzu (Taoist text).

It's a personal favourite and maybe you might like it too.

http://www.oshorajneesh.com/download/osho-books/Tao/When_the_Shoe_Fits.pdf

 

Omergawd, that's sweet. Thanks, GMP :-)

[satsujin]

Thanks for the positive welcome folks. Looking forward to learning here.

 

@GMP Will check out the book, thanks. Find reading Osho to be really interesting.

 

@kio Always thought shamans got more of their experience through mind altering drugs.

[silent thunder]

Thanks for the positive welcome folks. Looking forward to learning here.

 

@GMP Will check out the book, thanks. Find reading Osho to be really interesting.

 

@kio Always thought shamans got more of their experience through mind altering drugs

Not at all... While mind altering plants/entheogens are commonly used, they are rarely the trigger that opens the initial door to the path. Most common among shamans is a very intense, often debilitating sickness at some point that awakens certain perceptive abilities and begins them on the path. The entheogen experience often comes later as their insight and potential teaching from another shaman will direct them on their use.

 

Welcome to the Bums mate.

[soaring crane]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Based on his spiritual energy and actions in life, I do not recommend reading Osho.

 

Best to you.

 

well, on another note, based on the no-nonsense, down-to-earth, no BS approach he took in his talks (which were recorded and later published as"Osho" books), I recommend reading them and ignoring the source and the predjudices against him.

[soaring crane]

My concerns are not the words. But the energy behind those words.

 

formed words = formless energies

 

 

Just my 2¢.

 

I understood that, RV. But I've read a lot of the Osho books over the years and haven't suffered for it. In fact, I'd say I've only profitted from the experience. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself, and all that rot :-)

 

I do believe a lot of the stories about him are exaggerated and even fiction, quite possibly done with his approval. But, honestly, it isn't important to me. And because I don't dwell on it, it has no effect.

[gendao]

Hello TaoBums and other users,

 

I am 36 year old epileptic man. Still unemployed and dependent on my parents. The few times I held a job I started becoming unconscious at work. Got to the point where even my father refused to hire me. My doctors claim stress is the trigger to my seizures. I have also had a few psychotic episodes. In a few months, they are going to assign me to an assisted living facility somewhere in India. Not sure about the details. I will become a trust fund baby when they pass away but they don't believe I can survive on my own. I never thought of myself as disabled, I am not sure if I should fight against this path or accept it until it is no longer an option.

 

I am currently reading The Empty Boat and The Pathless Path by Osho. Only a little way in but makes for interesting reading. Hope I can ask question about my doubts and get clarifications through this forum,

 

Regards,

Anoop Alex

Hmm, amongst other things, you may have chosen to incarnate in a "I cannot cope on my own" Victim role.

The only way to break out of these roles is for each to take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for themself...& nothing MORE & nothing LESS.

 

Of course, since much of your Victim programming would be SUBCONSCIOUS, you may need special therapies to deprogram yourself.

 

Good Luck!

Edited January 4, 2015 by gendao

[kio]

@kio Always thought shamans got more of their experience through mind altering drugs.

Nope

I agree with silent thunder.

[silent thunder]

truly at this point in my path

I see nearly everything around me and within me possesses entheogenic potential.

The most potent entheogen I've encountered, is the air I breath, coupled with the rate i am breathed at...

[satsujin]

@gendao I have often wondered(more recently than before) if I use the Victim mentality as a crutch to avoid taking responsibility in my life. Recently I had to admit to myself that I was lazy and this was not an easy thing to admit to oneself. This is true however because I dont need to work. I am happy to work when there is a need but in my current life the only time that need crops up is is helping my family with household chores. I live as an expatriate in country where my father won't let me work with him and finding other jobs is not easy since I only have a high school degree especially since the employer has to provide a work permit to stay in the country. I have finished 3/4 years of Computer Science degree at University of Toronto but had to stop and leave the country before completion because my seizure activity became serious at that time. I never accepted myself as a victim of my circumstances fully until my parents told me about 3 weeks ago that they didn't think I had the skills to live on my own in India. I lived by myself with the Don Bosco volunteer group in Kochi for 2 months on my own in India in mid-2014 but left when I got bored with it. Almost all paid jobs I've done resulted in resurgence of seizure activity. I have no money of my own so need to pay for my large amount of anticonvulsants, anti anxiety and antipsychotic pills somehow. I looked into freelance work online but that leads to the issue of deadlines and quotas which increases my stress. Also, the medications I've taken over the years severely affect my long term memory ability which affects my ability to work. Unlike Western families, Asian families tend to stick together even when the children are grown up. I am willing to consider any options you or others may suggest......however, I also ask would you work if you didn't need to especially in areas that you didn't enjoy?

 

@rainbowvein I suspect a lot of the bad mouthing Osho gets is from people who didn't get what they expected by him or from the govt. that felt threatened by him. My father knew Osho well as a good friend before he became famous and met him again for a couple days after his return to India from his US exile and said he still respected the man. Christoper Calder is also known to spread a lot of lies about him like being an addict, abusing women, praising hitler and letting power go to his head.

[gendao]

@gendao I have often wondered(more recently than before) if I use the Victim mentality as a crutch to avoid taking responsibility in my life. Recently I had to admit to myself that I was lazy and this was not an easy thing to admit to oneself. This is true however because I dont need to work. I am happy to work when there is a need but in my current life the only time that need crops up is is helping my family with household chores. I live as an expatriate in country where my father won't let me work with him and finding other jobs is not easy since I only have a high school degree especially since the employer has to provide a work permit to stay in the country. I have finished 3/4 years of Computer Science degree at University of Toronto but had to stop and leave the country before completion because my seizure activity became serious at that time. I never accepted myself as a victim of my circumstances fully until my parents told me about 3 weeks ago that they didn't think I had the skills to live on my own in India. I lived by myself with the Don Bosco volunteer group in Kochi for 2 months on my own in India in mid-2014 but left when I got bored with it. Almost all paid jobs I've done resulted in resurgence of seizure activity. I have no money of my own so need to pay for my large amount of anticonvulsants, anti anxiety and antipsychotic pills somehow. I looked into freelance work online but that leads to the issue of deadlines and quotas which increases my stress. Also, the medications I've taken over the years severely affect my long term memory ability which affects my ability to work. Unlike Western families, Asian families tend to stick together even when the children are grown up. I am willing to consider any options you or others may suggest......however, I also ask would you work if you didn't need to especially in areas that you didn't enjoy?

LOL, you "don't need" to work? I'm sure your parents would beg to differ!!

 

As a 36-yo man, you need to be supporting and healing yourself, financially and in all other ways!!! Not completely relying upon others!

 

The fact that you don't even see the need to do this...and have been relatively comfortable living completely dependent upon others...to even be SHOCKED that your parents believe you can't live unassisted...is definitely symptomatic of an unresponsible "victim" obliviously in denial!

Your seizures may be a subconscious reaction to attaining self-sufficiency to keep you an incapacitated, dependent victim. The question is, what subconscious beliefs or painful blockages are putting and keeping you in that role??

Edited January 5, 2015 by gendao

[silent thunder]

yikes gendao.

 

you have no idea what another's experience really is...

that's some heavy surety on the part of someone, who's read but a few lines of words in another's life.

[satsujin]

LOL, you "don't need" to work? I'm sure your parents would beg to differ!!

 

As a 36-yo man, you need to be supporting and healing yourself, financially and in all other ways!!! Not completely relying upon others!

 

The fact that you don't even see the need to do this...and have been relatively comfortable living completely dependent upon others...to even be SHOCKED that your parents believe you can't live unassisted...is definitely symptomatic of an unresponsible "victim" obliviously in denial!

 

Then what is the path you suggest I take? I have no money, I can't drive, there is no public transport except expensive cabs where I live, I am prone to seizures and I only have computer programming skills. Where will I make money to support myself? I have already discussed this issue with my parents many times. They do not WISH me to work. Maybe after they pass away I can look into supporting myself since then it won't upset them. Chances are, however, by that time I will be in my 40s without any prior job experience.

[gendao]

Then what is the path you suggest I take? I have no money, I can't drive, there is no public transport except expensive cabs where I live, I am prone to seizures and I only have computer programming skills. Where will I make money to support myself? I have already discussed this issue with my parents many times. They do not WISH me to work. Maybe after they pass away I can look into supporting myself since then it won't upset them. Chances are, however, by that time I will be in my 40s without any prior job experience.

Are any of those the actual root of your problem...or the symptoms?

 

You need to do self-inquiry & genuine healing. If you sincerely desire healing and allow your Divine Nature through, then it will find a way to start on your road to real recovery. It could even start tomorrow, who knows?! Are there any local wise men, seers, intuitive healers, etc in your area? Maybe check out some bulletin boards? Just try to open your mind, suspend all your beliefs about why you can't...and allow the miracle of Nature to work its magic!

 

I mean, what have you got to lose and what else have you got to do right now, anyways???

Edited January 5, 2015 by gendao

[satsujin]

Are any of those the actual root of your problem...or the symptoms?

 

You need to do self-inquiry & genuine healing. If you sincerely desire healing and allow your Divine Nature through, then it will find a way to start on your road to real recovery. It could even start tomorrow, who knows?! Are there any local wise men, seers, intuitive healers, etc in your area? Maybe check out some bulletin boards? Just try to open your mind, suspend all your beliefs about why you can't...and allow the miracle of Nature to work its magic!

 

I mean, what have you got to lose and what else have you got to do right now, anyways???

 

If only it were as easy as that.....how do we know when it is our Divine Nature speaking and when it is our ego? I live in a xenophobic Muslim country. There are no wise men here but I have access to a plethora of books online and this site also of course. In any case, since my interest in Tao, my current goal is to learn more about myself. I'm not sure if that a goal with an end or more like an ongoing change of view in lifestyle choice.

Edited January 5, 2015 by satsujin

[gendao]

If only it were as easy as that.....how do we know when it is our Divine Nature speaking and when it is our ego? I live in a xenophobic Muslim country. There are no wise men here but I have access to a plethora of books online and this site also of course. In any case, since my interest in Tao, my current goal is to learn more about myself. I'm not sure if that a goal with an end or more like an ongoing change of view in lifestyle choice.

Maybe it is? First off, if you have computer programming skills...then you can actually work for anyone from anywhere in the world...for many jobs. So, you could already be making money as it is! Yet somehow, you've failed to see that??

 

And being in a "xenophobic Muslim country"...is just another symptom of your underlying belief (IMO).

 

You see, the conventional conscious mind thinks that "because A, A, A happened...as a result, I believe A."

Whereas the metaphysical mindfvck is that "A, A, A happened because I already subconsciously believed A beforehand to begin with - which then projected into my outside world as a result, not the cause."

 

So, applied to your situation...you've manifested and focused on every possible obstacle to becoming self-sufficient and self-responsible - probably because deep down, you subconsciously believe you are a disabled victim incapable of supporting yourself. So then you manifest a life to consistently support, maintain and "prove" that true.

 

Anyhow, as far as how to distinguish between our Divine Nature and our ego...that is a good question. I'm no expert in that area myself yet, so maybe another "wise azz" here can better address that?

Edited January 5, 2015 by gendao

[satsujin]

Maybe it is? First off, if you have computer programming skills...then you can actually work for anyone from anywhere in the world...for many jobs. So, you could already be making money as it is! Yet somehow, you've failed to see that??

The only way I could get job now is by online freelancing; not at a physical location. And programming has changed a lot since I learned it 10 years ago. I have tried learning new skills but I also have a memory problem which is a very common issue for many with epilepsy. I have looked at sites like ODesk and Elance without finding much opportunity but perhaps I should look harder.

 

And being in a "xenophobic Muslim country"...is just another symptom of your underlying belief (IMO).

I don't think you can safely assume that without having lived here. Sharjah in UAE.

 

So, applied to your situation...you've manifested and focused on every possible obstacle to becoming self-sufficient and self-responsible - probably because deep down, you subconsciously believe you are a disabled victim incapable of supporting yourself. So then you manifest a life to consistently support, maintain and "prove" that true.

 

Anyhow, as far as how to distinguish between our Divine Nature and our ego...that is a good question. I'm no expert in that area myself yet, so maybe another "wise azz" here can better address that?

I admit I can come up with a lot of reasons with why I shouldn't be working. Maybe they can all be reduced to "I don't want to." But it is true that I also don't need to. Should I force myself to work because of society's general views or should I learn to accept myself as I am?

Edited January 5, 2015 by satsujin

[gendao]

however, I also ask would you work if you didn't need to especially in areas that you didn't enjoy?

I don't think you can safely assume that without having lived here. Sharjah in UAE.

 

I admit I can come up with a lot of reasons with why I shouldn't be working. Maybe they can all be reduced to "I don't want to." But it is true that I also don't need to. Should I force myself to work because of society's general views or should I learn to accept myself as I am?

If you really wanted to find happy work, you would still find it wherever you're at or end up where you need to be for that.. Again, you are not finding it...because you are not looking for it.

 

It seems as if you suffer a false "either or" dilemma of EITHER working or ACCEPTING/BEING yourself. Hmmm, why are they "mutually-exclusive" in your mind?

 

Couldn't "work" also be both personally rewarding/fulfilling and financially supportive? Or do you believe you must always compromise one for the other? So, you must deny yourself to support yourself?

 

You also claim that you don't "need" to - because your parents are supporting you? Yet, you are not bothered that they are obviously getting fatigued from all that, hence considering sending you to an outside facility?

Edited January 5, 2015 by gendao

[satsujin]

It seems as if you suffer a false "either or" dilemma of EITHER working or ACCEPTING/BEING yourself. Hmmm, why are they "mutually-exclusive" in your mind?

Because I have had to admit to myself that I don't want to work unless I need to. That I what I am currently. I can force myself to work against my wishes but that would be going against my nature. And with no major beneficial purpose. It would certainly not be the path of least resistance. My guilt comes from wondering if I would work even if needed to or would I prefer to be a drifter. But such hypothetical thinking is only negative, I think. I won't worry about what might happen in my life until it does happen.

 

You also claim that you don't "need" to - because your parents are supporting you? Yet, you are not bothered that they are obviously getting fatigued from all that, hence considering sending you to an outside facility?

They don't say it is because they are getting fatigued. They say it is because they want me settled in before they pass away. Of course, they could just be saying that not to hurt my feelings. And my father will work whether I am at home or not so sending me away makes no difference there.