Who I don't want to be my Teacher?

[ChiDragon]

The is one way to choose a teacher. Here are some of the things that is dead give away not to learn from this individual.

If someone claim that he teachs
1. Chi Kung and Kung Fu.
2. Karate and Kung Fu.
3. Tai Ji and Kung Fu.

Of course, this is only my opinion but I would use it as a guideline to choose my teacher.

Edited January 4, 2015 by ChiDragon

[thewhitetiger]

The is one way to choose a teacher. Here are some of the things that is dead give away not to learn from this individual.

 

If someone claim that he teachs

1. Chi Kung and Kung Fu.

2. Karate and Kung Fu.

3. Tai Ji and Kung Fu.

 

Of course, this is only my opinion but I would use it as a guideline to choose my teacher.

 

That is a bit Vague.

When you consider that these terms are widely used by authentic and non-authentic teachers.

 

*Edit* Well I would want to learn Tai chi from a Karate master myself...

EDIT of my EDIT *That should be WOULDN'T or Not.

 

 

What terminology would you accept from someone?

Edited December 29, 2014 by thewhitetiger

[ChiDragon]

Well I would want to learn Tai chi from a Karate master myself....

 

That is a bit Vague.

Likewise to you.

 

Why would you like to learn from a Karate master which he claims that he knows Tai Ji....???

 

Please clarify your question.

"What terminology would you accept from someone?"

Edited December 29, 2014 by ChiDragon

[thewhitetiger]

Wooops...That was supposed to be "NOT" want to learn.

 

What Labels, names, description would you accept from someone describing what they teach in a general term?

 

Why would you not want to learn from someone who teaches chi kung and Kung fu?

 

What are your requirements that satisfy what you are looking for in a Teacher?

[ChiDragon]

Wooops...That was supposed to be "NOT" want to learn.

1. What Labels, names, description would you accept from someone describing what they teach in a general term?

2. Why would you not want to learn from someone who teaches chi kung and Kung fu?

3. What are your requirements that satisfy what you are looking for in a Teacher?

 

That's better...!!!

Let me answer #1 for now because #2 and 3 are a little bit extensive. I need a little time for that.

1. It is not a matter of what general term to be used. The terms which are used is only a label to reveal what one really knows or don't know.

 

 

Note:

#3 may be answered follow by answering question #2.

[Daeluin]

What Labels, names, description would you accept from someone describing what they teach in a general term?

 

What does your heart tell you?

 

Why would you not want to learn from someone who teaches chi kung and Kung fu?

 

Casual qi-gong groups are great for exposing people to energy work, but I think it is wise to be cautious when exchanging energy with strangers.

 

If you are going to train seriously with someone, make sure you trust them fully, from the beginning. A real master is likely going to feel trustworthy.

 

If you are going to train, try to avoid tourism. Different schools will probably use fundamentally different approaches to the same material. One teacher might correct your posture minutely, while another prefers to let your energy inform you of the correct posture over time. Which is right? If you have questions like this, then you aren't trusting and won't fully benefit from the program. One can go from school to school trying to find the right one, and end up getting more confused by all the surface level things that don't add up. Masters tend to have reasons for their approach... what doesn't make sense may very well be a technique to heal the thinking mind. A good teacher leads to emptiness.

 

Masters and spiritual teachers can have a powerful influence on your subtle energies, and one shouldn't treat this lightly. Especially when one is at sensitive places on their path, outside influences can add confusion if one is unaware of them. On the other hand, sometimes diving right in is the way to go.

 

What are your requirements that satisfy what you are looking for in a Teacher?

 

I say follow your heart, and you'll know when you know.

 

Here's a thread about this.

[henro]

The is one way to choose a teacher. Here are some of the things that is dead give away not to learn from this individual.

 

If someone claim that he teachs

1. Chi Kung and Kung Fu.

2. Karate and Kung Fu.

3. Tai Ji and Kung Fu.

 

Of course, this is only my opinion but I would use it as a guideline to choose my teacher.

 

Those are three huge generalities!!!

 

In general, I would agree that karate and Kung fu are differently energetically, and in their core movements. it would be difficult to teach both.

 

Tai chi is kung fu, but for argument sake I'll assume you meant hard styles. In that case I have seen, and worked with several kung fu teachers who very effectively teach both tai chi and qi gong in addition to a hard style.

Edited December 29, 2014 by henro

[ChiDragon]

The is one way to choose a teacher. Here are some of the things that is dead give away not to learn from this individual.

If someone claim that he teachs

1. Chi Kung and Kung Fu.

2. Karate and Kung Fu.

3. Tai Ji and Kung Fu.

 

Those are three huge generalities!!!

 

In general, I would agree that karate and Kung fu are differently energetically, and in their core movements. it would be difficult to teach both.

 

Tai chi is kung fu, but for argument sake I'll assume you meant hard styles. In that case I have seen, and worked with several kung fu teachers who very effectively teach both tai chi and qi gong in addition to a hard style.

 

These three huge generalities seem to be mundane. However, there is a divine secret behind them which is not easily to be recognized by the reader. Hence, one must not look at it grossly and come to a hasty conclusion. They must be examined scrupulously to find its reconditeness. It seems to me you already had done so. However, there was a slight misunderstanding, on your part, about Tai Ji was being Kung Fu. I grant you that Tai Ji may be considered to be a form of Kung Fu. Unfortunately, most people seem to be looking at it this way by ignoring the major difference of the two.

 

BTW That was my intention to point out the subtlety of the fine art in the next post.

Edited December 29, 2014 by ChiDragon

[thewhitetiger]

When it comes to discussion on a Forum I like to keep things rather simple.

[ChiDragon]

When it comes to discussion on a Forum I like to keep things rather simple.

It won't be simple if one ask complicated questions.....!!!

BTW Do you still wish for me to continue to answer the final question....???

 

"Why would you not want to learn from someone who teaches chi kung and Kung fu?"

[thewhitetiger]

In truth, no. It is really has nothing to do with me.

[henro]

It won't be simple if one ask complicated questions.....!!!

BTW Do you still wish for me to continue to answer the final question....???

 

"Why would you not want to learn from someone who teaches chi kung and Kung fu?"

 

I would like you to answer the question. I believe you do a disservice to many by posting such things without explanation, especially to the inexperienced person looking for advice. The layperson looking for information regarding tai ji, gong fu, or qigong may be led astray or miss excellent opportunities to find a practice by blindly following your advice.

[ChiDragon]

henro,
I thought you might be interested. I'll fulfill your request after I come back from my Tai Ji Class.

Perhaps, I was contemplating to start a new thread, with more emphasis, to distinguish the difference between Tai Ji and Kung Fu in general.

BTW thank you for the opportunity for given me a chance to express myself on the subject matter.

Edited December 30, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Brian]

This,guy probably has a different viewpoint (he happens to be NQA's QiTalk speaker this month on "The Dao of Qigong" so I borrowed his bio):

 

Zhou Xuan Yun

 

Daoist monk Zhou Xuan Yun grew up in a temple on Wudang Mountain, China where he was a student and later an instructor of Taiji and Kung Fu. He belongs to the Orthodox Unity sect of Daoism, and is trained in ritual arts, chanting, divination, and internal alchemy. At the age of 20, Xuan Yun left Wudang Mountain to live as a wandering monk and traveled alone around China for four years. Now based in the United States, Xuan Yun offers regular classes in the Boston area and travels to teach workshops on the traditional Wudang martial arts, Qi Gong, and Daoist philosophy. He is the author of a series of DVDs including Wudang Tai Chi, Wudang Kung Fu, Wudang Sword, and Qigong for Healthy Living.

 

[thewhitetiger]

My viewpoint is the opposite as well.

Considering that White Tiger, Hsing Yi, Baqua, and other Southern internal systems have qigong integrated right into them As are most Taoist Arts. With 7000 forms of Qigong, 5 families of Tai chi and their multiple branches as well 1000 Form of Kung Fu (Internal and external) His statements baffle me...

As Ken Cohen (who is a Lineage holder, Taoist Initiate and Scholar), Grandmaster Feng Zhiqiang, Joel Rizzo, Tom Rizzo Bruce frantzis, Garry Hearfield, Terry Dunn, and many many more are Chi Kung, Tai Chi and Kung Fu Teachers I find it very Arrogant to dismiss them so out of hand.

That is why I had no interest to hear what he had to say. It is his personal Bias, or he is such a stickler for precise wording that it borders on Aspergers Syndrome territory. This all comes down to the views of an individual who may state his opinion, yet it has no bearing on my own experiences and personal views. I found it quite strange that he took such a simple question and decided it was "Complicated".

No He chose it to be complicated. Wide generalizations are made yet simple view cannot be stated.

Edited December 30, 2014 by thewhitetiger

[Daeluin]

I know a teacher of advanced martial arts and kung fu, who's only entry level class (open to outsiders) is cultivation oriented. The first hour or so of class is silent while the students do repetitive silk-reeling qi-gong exercises. During the first class a new student will join the others, attempt to follow along as the Sifu verbally explains the movements. Otherwise the classes are mostly silent. After one has learned and polished their tai chi form (9 months to a year), the dedicated students have the option of taking private lessons with the Sifu.

 

In this way the school attracts people who might not be very martial oriented or highly disciplined from the beginning, but those who continue learning over the years exhibit qualities of patience, compassion, and humility.

[dawei]

My viewpoint is the opposite as well.

Considering that White Tiger, Hsing Yi, Baqua, and other Southern internal systems have qigong integrated right into them As are most Taoist Arts. With 7000 forms of Qigong, 5 families of Tai chi and their multiple branches as well 1000 Form of Kung Fu (Internal and external) His statements baffle me...

As Ken Cohen (who is a Lineage holder, Taoist Initiate and Scholar), Grandmaster Feng Zhiqiang, Joel Rizzo, Tom Rizzo Bruce frantzis, Garry Hearfield, Terry Dunn, and many many more are Chi Kung, Tai Chi and Kung Fu Teachers I find it very Arrogant to dismiss them so out of hand.

That is why I had no interest to hear what he had to say. It is his personal Bias, or he is such a stickler for precise wording that it borders on Aspergers Syndrome territory. This all comes down to the views of an individual who may state his opinion, yet it has no bearing on my own experiences and personal views. I found it quite strange that he took such a simple question and decided it was "Complicated".

No He chose it to be complicated. Wide generalizations are made yet simple view cannot be stated.

 

The claim is almost outrageous... so be it.

[ChiDragon]

I would like you to answer the question. I believe you do a disservice to many by posting such things without explanation, especially to the inexperienced person looking for advice. The layperson looking for information regarding tai ji, gong fu, or qigong may be led astray or miss excellent opportunities to find a practice by blindly following your advice.

I will make it very brief here about Tai Ji and Kung Fu.

 

Tai Ji takes a long time to bring it to perfection. It is a from of Chi Kung as well as Neigong. The primary reason for people to practice Tai Ji is for health. At the beginning of the practice, there are alots of hard work in breathing and movements for building up the body inner strength. After few years of practice, then it may be applied to have the function as Kung Fu.

 

In general, people practice Kung Fu is for self defense. Of course, it may not exclude health for some. Kung Fu is not as refine as Tai Ji. Sometimes, it is very vigorous and pretty aggressive. It consumes lots of body energy during practice. Thus it cannot be classified as Neigung(內功) as Tai Ji. It would be more appropriate to classify it as Weigong(外功).

 

These two techniques are almost the opposite of each other. It is difficult to practice them at the same time. If a person wants to practice both, then, Tai Ji should be practiced first. However, after a person have brought Tai Ji to its perfection, then, there is no need to learn Kung Fu or doesn't want to learn it at all. Needless to say, one may not have perfected the prowess of Tai Ji, yet, if one claims one knows Kung Fu and Tai Ji.

Edited December 31, 2014 by ChiDragon

[thewhitetiger]

This is where something interesting can take place. I agree.

If someone focuses on one area of training for the rest of their lives, I feel that is an excellent path.

Yet it is arrogant to tell someone

"Here are some of the things that is dead give away not to learn from this individual." Is so patronizing and Arrogant.

It is fundelmentalist and limiting.

You do not know how one can compliment another.

You can not know the training practices of all Internal Systems.

You can not know the benefits of training different methods of intention.

 

I understand and agree with your View...not the Absolute attitude you wield around with it.

I was told there are 4 levels to mastery.

1. The Great Expert, someone who trains for a time and starts to feel very self important

2. The Big Potato, After learning a little more elements, and deeper mysteries of an art.

3. The Banana head, After coming to realize that the human lifespan is limited and knowledge is limitless, you feel silly for being so self important

4. Nothing special. Beauty if found in the ordinary, mystery in the everyday

 

I feel I am at Banana Head myself.

 

What stage are you at?

[henro]

I will make it very brief here about Tai Ji and Kung Fu.

 

Tai Ji takes a long time to bring it to perfection. It is a from of Chi Kung as well as Neigong. The primary reason for people to practice Tai Ji is for health. At the beginning of the practice, there are alots of hard work in breathing and movements for building up the body inner strength. After few years of practice, then it may be applied to have the function as Kung Fu.

 

In general, people practice Kung Fu is for self defense. Of course, it may not exclude health for some. Kung Fu is not as refine as Tai Ji. Sometimes, it is very vigorous and pretty aggressive. It consumes lots of body energy during practice. Thus it cannot be classified as Neigung(內功) as Tai Ji. It would be more appropriate to classify it as Weigong(外功).

 

These two techniques are almost the opposite of each other. It is difficult to practice them at the same time. If a person wants to practice both, then, Tai Ji should be practiced first. However, after a person have brought Tai Ji to its perfection, then, there is no need to learn Kung Fu or doesn't want to learn it at all. Needless to say, one may not have perfected the prowess of Tai Ji, yet, if one claims one knows Kung Fu and Tai Ji.

 

In general I would agree, but only when it pertains to the average weekend warrior. To practice both on a limited basis might be difficult. However, with the right systems, the two practices complement and inform each other in many ways.

 

Kung fu, with its stance training, and often cardio style workout with forms makes the practitioner stronger. The fighting aspects give the movements integrity, and the addition of weapons training helps with coordination, and strength. External styles can bring a greater and quicker level of understanding to your tai ji practice.

 

Tai ji's slow movements and intricacies can help inform the external styles forms and stances, bringing a greater degree of perfection to these forms. The flow of kung fu forms can be increased, and the internal alignments of tai ji will add to the power.

 

So while the training and practices are different, the two can be completely complementary. Great teachers who've spent their lives training both may be able to teach both, and can add a level of understanding that someone who has only trained one system cannot.

Edited December 31, 2014 by henro

[ChiDragon]

Kung fu, with its stance training, and often cardio style workout with forms makes the practitioner stronger. The fighting aspects give the movements integrity, and the addition of weapons training helps with coordination, and strength. External styles can bring a greater and quicker level of understanding to your tai ji practice.

 

Tai ji's slow movements and intricacies can help inform the external styles forms and stances, bringing a greater degree of perfection to these forms. The flow of kung fu forms can be increased, and the internal alignments of tai ji will add to the power.

 

The latter will do all what the former does more than one expected. That is why I said practice Tai Ji first. Hence there are unlimited features to be discovered in the practice of Tai Ji. Once one has learned this elegant art, one would be indulged in it. Unless, one has not been learned to appreciate it fully, then, one might goes into Kung Fu along the way. I wouldn't consider that was a proper approach.

 

 

@ thewhitetiger

Yet, it was arrogant. Perhaps offensive! Indeed! I was only emphasizing on the guideline how to choose a right teacher. It really jolted somebody, didn't it.....???

 

 

Edited December 31, 2014 by ChiDragon

[thewhitetiger]

@ thewhitetiger

Yet, it was arrogant. Perhaps offensive! Indeed! I was only emphasizing on the guideline how to choose a right teacher. It really jolted somebody, didn't it.....???

If I was jolted, it is because I am not interested in burying my emotions. I do try to work with Wuwei, yet I will also call someone on their BS. Which Sir you are quite full of.

I had taken notice how you communicate to others in other posts as well. It was why I knew I was no longer interested in your answer. You choose to try and provoke most people.

I believe you are thinking you may be trying to show others where they may need to work on themselves. Perhaps that is a great form of teaching. Yet...it is patronizing and even borders on sociopathic. Perhaps consider you do not need to teach people in such a heavy handed way...one that serves your ego so well.

I understand who I am dealing with now. I suspect that we will not have much to say in the future. Unless it is with consideration and respect.

[ChiDragon]

personally... I've never seen antagonism and condescension as desired qualities in a teacher.

 

perhaps, 'when the teacher is ready, then they can try to become a student' should be the saying.

Yes, there is a lot to be learned from the students, for one, to become a better teacher.

 

 

 

@thewhitetiger...

Your thoughts are well respected....

The things that were putted in a negative way are not always bad. If one always want to hear the patronizing comments from others all the time, then, there will be no room for a good advice crap from people.

 

 

Edited as shown in red.

Edited December 31, 2014 by ChiDragon

[thewhitetiger]

Yes, there is a lot to be learned from the students, for one, to become a better teacher.

 

 

 

@thewhitetiger...

Your thoughts are well respected....

The things that were putted in a negative way are not always bad. If one always want to hear the patronizing comments from others all the time, then, there will be no room for a good advice.

Yes I agree. Also...Don't take crap from people.

[henro]

The latter will do all what the former does more than one expected. That is why I said practice Tai Ji first. Hence there are unlimited features to be discovered in the practice of Tai Ji. Once one has learned this elegant art, one would be indulged in it. Unless, one has not been learned to appreciate it fully, then, one might goes into Kung Fu along the way. I wouldn't consider that was a proper approach.

 

 

@ thewhitetiger

Yet, it was arrogant. Perhaps offensive! Indeed! I was only emphasizing on the guideline how to choose a right teacher. It really jolted somebody, didn't it.....???

 

 

 

It's safe to say that practitioners of martial arts who start when they are young will have external arts first, then tai ji. This includes Yang Lu Chan. So are you saying they are all wrong to study gong fu first?

 

Further, you've now diverged away from your original proposition, that someone who teaches both tai ji and gong fu can't be a good teacher. Are you now saying as long as they practice tai ji first that its ok? Or if someone chooses to learn an external art, or god forbid cross train in multiple arts, they are incapable of appreciating tai ji?

 

And what about the thousands of people who practice Wudang arts which have elements of external gong fu, tai ji, bagua, zing yi, and qigong?

Edited December 31, 2014 by henro