Primordial Spirit: Heart or Head?

[C T]

"Is not"...

I hope you are clear that you express your own limited personal understanding with that...

and that you don't arrogate to be the mouthpiece of buddhist dharma.

Its not my understanding, it is what is written in the relevant texts.

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Jeff]

The third eye region seems to be a pretty overcrowded place to reside in then...

 

What we are (and are not) is not limited to the local body mind.

 

Best wishes.

[ralis]

Ok, to stay on topic,

what do the relevant Dzogchen texts say about the third eye,

as third eye practice is essential in the highest Dzogchen diszipline?

 

The Dzogchen practices do work with the third eye etc. E.g., Om-third eye center, Ah-throat center and Hum-heart center. Om Ah Hum sounds will awaken each center. I can look up more info and post later.

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[ralis]

What we are (and are not) is not limited to the local body mind.

 

Best wishes.

 

That is easier said than being able to experience it directly, which is the reason these discussions are taking place. A discourse such as this is not new, but dates back time immemorial.

Edited January 4, 2015 by ralis

[ralis]

That would be great.

 

Some of the Dzogchen teachers feel that focusing on the upper centers and in this case the third eye, may cause agitation and sleepless nights. However, it is up to the individual as how best to proceed.

Edited January 4, 2015 by ralis

[ralis]

As far as I can tell, all experience must have an energetic basis. Otherwise, perception/experience would be impossible.

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[ralis]

An abstraction cannot flow through a channel from the heart to the eyes.

 

If I understand you correctly, tathagatagarbha is an idea as opposed to a real force. If Buddhists posited it as concrete, that would undermine a much relied on philosophical underpinning.

Edited January 4, 2015 by ralis

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[ralis]

I was just thinking gravity, electro magnetic forces, space and time are important considerations.

[ralis]

I see Brian is here and possibly he has more to add to my last post. I don't claim to be a physicist because I am not.

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[3bob]

no need to pin down that which can not be pinned down, although kicking around some maps and ideas has its place it is also like the following story:

 

"A number of blind men came to an elephant. Somebody told them that it was an elephant. The blind men asked, ‘What is the elephant like?’ and they began to touch its body. One of them said: 'It is like a pillar.' This blind man had only touched its leg. Another man said, ‘The elephant is like a husking basket.’ This person had only touched its ears. Similarly, he who touched its trunk or its belly talked of it differently. In the same way, he who has seen the Lord in a particular way limits the Lord to that alone and thinks that He is nothing else"

Edited January 4, 2015 by 3bob

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[C T]

Ok, to stay on topic,

what do the relevant texts say about the eyebrow region / the third eye,

as this is essential in the highest Dzogchen diszipline but not in the lower ones?

The relevant texts also say not to openly discuss the higher Dzogchen practices because it achieves nothing, not only that, but it could cause unnecessary harm if these practices are attempted solo, without the proper guidance and grounding. Proper guidance from a qualified teacher ensures maximum benefit with minimal chance of mishap.

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[C T]

Strange! The instructions in The Secret Of The Golden Flower are pretty similar to the teachings I was talking about,

and The Secret Of The Golden Flower it is in fact a manual which was especially written for lay people who want to achieve enlightenment on their own, not for students of a school who followed a master...

You asked about Dzogchen texts - The Secret of the Golden Flower is a Taoist manual.

[ralis]

The relevant texts also say not to openly discuss the higher Dzogchen practices because it achieves nothing, not only that, but it could cause unnecessary harm if these practices are attempted solo, without the proper guidance and grounding. Proper guidance from a qualified teacher ensures maximum benefit with minimal chance of mishap.

 

Why the authoritarian imposition? I think the so called warnings were inserted by ones who preferred power over sharing. That is the nature of any hierarchy.

[ralis]

You asked about Dzogchen texts - The Secret of the Golden Flower is a Taoist manual.

 

The OP is a very brief overview of cross cultural ideology which includes many definitions.

[voidisyinyang]

On the issue of primordial spirit being circulated through the body - this is a good point - but keep in mind that as the practice advances then the circulation of energy is not just limited to the internal body - the "body" becomes extended.

 

So for example as I quoted recently in Taoist Yoga near the end - the author says to actually suck in the demonic spirits from outside the body - to suck them into the body and thereby transform and purify the demonic spirits into the primordial spirit.

 

Also at the end of the training - what happens is that the physical body is destroyed but since the golden immortal body is based on the prenatal spirit-vitality or yuan qi - then the qi as energy actually scatters across the whole universe. But then the qi energy can when it chooses condense again into a physical body - then yang shen body.

 

So before that stage then multiple "yang shen" bodies are already formed - that go out and heal people etc.

 

So it begs the question whose bodies are they - or - what is the "original" physical body? I mean - the original one gets destroyed but it can be reformed and also can be transformed etc.

 

So my point again is that the nondual reality is an eternal energy transformation experience - but yeah the training is to continue intensifying the energy to build up the golden immortal body that is actually not a physical body but an energy body that can take physical form.

 

Taoist Yoga calls it the "fa shen" body - as the essential nature body of the universe which then can create multiple yang shen bodies when it is not in its universal primordial spirit or yang chi-spirit formless that again fills the whole universe as the truth of reality.

[C T]

Why the authoritarian imposition? I think the so called warnings were inserted by ones who preferred power over sharing. That is the nature of any hierarchy.

nonsense

[ralis]

nonsense

 

Is that the best you can offer?

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM