Can we not love our brother as ourselves?

[manitou]

A couple weeks ago the Egyptian president made that suggestion. Maybe it will happen before he has to kill too many more Muslims.

 

Beware of this one. It isn't possible to see into the mind of those who are getting involved in this.

Just considering the possible working of the Dao.

[3bob]

The way some people "update" via private or group work arounds is one thing but the original and 3 main Abrahamic doctrines can not be updated without being chopped up in the sense of being largely and in some ways essentially rewritten since they were and remain written in non-flexible, non-updatable stone. Sure - there are many groups that make their own interpretations and updates but they do not follow original doctrine and should not pretend that they are under the umbrella of the original or use names that imply such. For instance there is no such thing as an Abrahamic faith claiming to be based on original doctrine that can allow even a fraction of the modern day work arounds or updates and still stay true to non-flexible doctrine craved in stone.

Edited January 11, 2015 by 3bob

[shunka]

Salmon Rushdie made a statement Jan 7:
---------------------------------
In the linked statement, Rushdie said that “[r]eligion, a medieval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms.”

“This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today,” he continued.

“I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity.”

“‘Respect for religion’” has become a code phrase meaning “‘fear of religion,’” Rushdie concluded. “Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.”
---------------------------------


Tonight , Salmon Rushdie appeared on Bill Maher's show:
---------------------------------
Rushdie also elaborated on his statement earlier this week that Islam has seen a“mutation” caused by religious extremism.

“This has been a mutation that a lot of work has been put into. A lot of governments — from the Sunni side, the Saudi government; on the Shia side, the Iranian government — have been putting fortunes of money into making sure that extremist mullahs are preaching in mosques around the world,” Rushdie said. “And in building and developing schools in which people of a whole generation is being educated in extremism, and trying to prevent other forms of education.”
---------------------------------
yhs

shunka

[soaring crane]

 

Rushdie also elaborated on his statement earlier this week that Islam has seen a“mutation” caused by religious extremism.

 

“This has been a mutation that a lot of work has been put into. A lot of governments — from the Sunni side, the Saudi government; on the Shia side, the Iranian government — have been putting fortunes of money into making sure that extremist mullahs are preaching in mosques around the world,” Rushdie said. “And in building and developing schools in which people of a whole generation is being educated in extremism, and trying to prevent other forms of education.”

---------------------------------

yhs

shunka

 

Thanks for the heads up. Starts at about 3:50

 

 

 

[C T]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/paris-attacks-these-troubled-men-who-project-their-selfhatred-on-others-9970229.html

[Marblehead]

A couple weeks ago the Egyptian president made that suggestion. Maybe it will happen before he has to kill too many more Muslims.

And then, ironically, in the news this morning, the Egyptian courts have brought charges against an Egyptian who declared himself an Atheist and talking negatively about Islam.

 

Egypt still has work to do. (And no, they really don't have freedom of speech yet.)

[Marblehead]

... and still stay true to non-flexible doctrine craved in stone.

But they are written on paper; written by man; therefore man can change the words if he so desires.

[3bob]

fanatically blind disrespect of religion is no better than fanatically blind respect of religion.

[Marblehead]

fanatically blind disrespect of religion is no better than fanatically blind respect of religion.

That is why I periodically point out that I criticize the "institutions", not the religions themselves.

[C T]

And then, ironically, in the news this morning, the Egyptian courts have brought charges against an Egyptian who declared himself an Atheist and talking negatively about Islam.

 

Egypt still has work to do. (And no, they really don't have freedom of speech yet.)

Oh, i think everyone has freedom of speech. Just that the price one pays for that privilege differs somewhat depending where one is.

[Marblehead]

Oh, i think everyone has freedom of speech. Just that the price one pays for that privilege differs somewhat depending where one is.

Hehehe. That sounds like a contradiction. If you gotta pay, it ain't free. There ain't no free lunches.

 

Even here in the US there are certain words one should not use else the CIA, FBI & NSA will be at your front door in no time.

[manitou]

As one very wise Bum pointed out to me, if you're going to hit a hornet's nest with a stupid stick, don't be surprised at the results.

 

Surprisingly enough, this new cover of Mohammed crying with his 'I Am Charlie' sign is very deep and true. I doubt though, that the writers of that cartoon are truly within the I Am consciousness when they wrote that - the mean-spiritedness of the magazine overall in the past would seemingly attest to that. But perhaps something deep within the cartoonist came to the fore; or maybe he truly understands the I Am consciousness. If he did, however, I doubt that he'd work at the magazine.

 

We are all one another, and we must take each other as we are, not 'as we ought to be'. If radical Muslims have no stomach for satire about Mohammed, then we shouldn't be surprised and demand that they be Tolerant, when in fact they are unable to do so. To me, that is hitting the hornet's nest with a stupid stick.

 

But as I said previously, this is the working of the Dao. It's just that things must be inflated before they can be deflated, as per the TTC (Yutang). The scab has been ripped off, as the scab of racial tension has been ripped off in this country.

 

As I zoom out to space and look back at the earth, I see the workings of the Dao very clearly in all of this. Love for our brother, as ourself, must win out in the end. But it will take a whole lot of strife first.

[manitou]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/paris-attacks-these-troubled-men-who-project-their-selfhatred-on-others-9970229.html

I couldn't agree more with the article, as it pertains to angry young men. And I'm going to sound like a total socialist here.

 

We have a form of government called Capitalism that seems to worship capital. It seems to me that capitalism has gone about as far as it can possibly go - the disparity between the rich and poor is getting ridiculous in this country. The wealthy keep getting wealthier, the poor keep getting poorer. Perhaps it is time for the world to get together and start thinking about giving opportunities for these disenfranchised young men - how can any solution be otherwise? Perhaps it's time for the richest of us to understand that hoarding all this stuck energy (money) is the very cause of this situation? It is certainly as important, IMO, as the religion one is born into. If the angry young men weren't so disenfranchised, they wouldn't need to join these groups that will care for them and their families, only to be sent out to do harm to others that don't share their religious view.

 

What else do many of these young men have to identify with? Nothing, as far as I can see. Sure, the brothers who attacked the magazine were born in France - but does that mean they were not disenfranchised as well? Were they first generation French, but still had their hearts and minds with those back home? Do Muslims in general feel 'separate' from the French citizenry, particularly those who gravitate toward neighborhoods of other Muslims? My guess is that they do, and the anger if fostered within their community. Ever insult hurled their way only serves to enrage further and further.

 

Does free speech have to mean we have the right to insult anyone we want, and screw everyone else?

 

Actually, I think it will be really interesting to see what this new magazine cover will accomplish. As I said, the message is actually kind of wonderful. The I Am. We Are. And that includes all of us, not just us Westerners.

[Marblehead]

As I zoom out to space and look back at the earth, I see the workings of the Dao very clearly in all of this. Love for our brother, as ourself, must win out in the end. But it will take a whole lot of strife first.

Yes, but remember that what you are seeing is a misunderstanding of Tao and its Way. Man's way often goes against the Way of Tao and we are seeing one of those times in these events in Paris as well as other parts of the world.

[manitou]

.

 

Even here in the US there are certain words one should not use else the CIA, FBI & NSA will be at your front door in no time.

I'm surprised they haven't shut down the whole TTB structure because of this very thread.

[manitou]

Yes, but remember that what you are seeing is a misunderstanding of Tao and its Way. Man's way often goes against the Way of Tao and we are seeing one of those times in these events in Paris as well as other parts of the world.

 

 

What is to be deflated must first be inflated (Yutang)

Edited January 14, 2015 by manitou

[Marblehead]

I'm surprised they haven't shut down the whole TTB structure because of this very thread.

No surprise here. We are within the limits of free speech. There are no bigoted posts here, just common knowledge and opinions regarding that common knowledge.

[Marblehead]

What is to be deflated must first be inflated (Yutang)

Yes, but some things are self-inflating and therefore it is difficult to find the way to deflate it.

[Aetherous]

I'm surprised they haven't shut down the whole TTB structure because of this very thread.

 

Better to keep an eye on it, I'm sure.

[Aetherous]

As one very wise Bum pointed out to me, if you're going to hit a hornet's nest with a stupid stick, don't be surprised at the results.

 

"True Islamophobia is being so frightened of Muslims that you try to stifle free speech to appease them." - Ben Shapiro

 

Perhaps the trick is to use Raid.

 

Does free speech have to mean we have the right to insult anyone we want, and screw everyone else?

 

To be truly free, yes! Absolutely.

 

I think even in America, though, there are definitely legal limits to it (like defamation), as well as consequences within the law (such as being fired, or being ostracized from a group).

[C T]

Hehehe. That sounds like a contradiction. If you gotta pay, it ain't free. There ain't no free lunches.

 

Even here in the US there are certain words one should not use else the CIA, FBI & NSA will be at your front door in no time.

Sounds like a contradiction but its not

 

People still openly say the dumbest things for the dumbest reasons all the time. Some dont care about the cost. Once in a while, something right gets said, although initially it might meet with lots of criticisms and heckling, but in the end, the words became meaningful, and the price ends up justifiably paltry in hindsight.

[ChiDragon]

What is to be deflated must first be inflated (Yutang)

 

 

It seems to me that Yutang was quoting from Lao Zi.

Edited January 14, 2015 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

Does free speech have to mean we have the right to insult anyone we want, and screw everyone else?

 

To be truly free, yes! Absolutely.

 

 

I think even in America, though, there are definitely legal limits to it (like defamation), as well as consequences within the law (such as being fired, or being ostracized from a group).

 

It seems to me this is always falls into the dilemma of double standard.

[Marblehead]

 

It seems to me this is always falls into the dilemma of double standard.

I rather prefer viewing it as limits. And some have more limits than do others.

[Brian]

Water is free but there are often consequences associated with drinking from certain streams or puddles.