Owledge Posted January 17, 2015 I honestly believe that's why Obama didn't participate or send anyone to participate. Because it reinforces Us vs. Them. He knows better. I see him as an enlightened one in a very unenlightened circumstance, working one day at a time for betterment. But my eyes could always be 'off'. It's just something I've seen since his first week in office. (I know I've predictably just set the stage for the next 23 posts) The psychological marketing campaign was very successful. People really have difficulty getting rid of those mind tricks. They've been grabbed hard by their hopes. No person, not even someone willing but unable would do what Obama has done. At some point one has to realize that he disqualified himself as a decent person. He made his decisions about what path to follow. Saying he is doing the wicked, deceptive, inciting, deadly, evil things he is doing because he has no choice is massive denial. The US president has more power than ever before. Also, his opposition is actually his support in this political theater of divide-and-conquer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) So I'm confused.. what's Obama done wrong now? (well...the stage was set..and I'm honestly curious..) Edited January 17, 2015 by dustybeijing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 17, 2015 So I'm confused.. what's Obama done wrong now? (well...the stage was set..and I'm honestly curious..) Hang in there. All will be revealed in time. I have the feeling Obama is being invoked into this discussion. The question, I suppose, would be: Why didn't Obama or Kerry attend the European governments solidarity getting together in Europe against terrorism and supporting freedom of speech? It is, afterall, American political policy in the Middle East that Western Europe is following that has caused them to become a target for the Islamic terrorists. If the US would have kept its nose out of Afghanistan when the Soviet Union was there we wouldn't be having any of these problems and we could have been concentrating on attaining peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis. And all those trillions of dollars would not have been spent on military equipment and all those Americans would not have been killed or maimed. But it seems America enjoys causing problems around the world so that we can spend trillions of dollars supporting our weapons of mass destruction sales to our and others' military. And, if you don't believe Bush Senior didn't create the reason for the US to invade Iraq you are believing the lies my government has been telling us. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Spot on MH, that's an accurate summary IMO. The trouble is with the military-industrial lobby is its power, money and influence. Keeping the war-pot boiling in their interests. The poor taxpayers pick up the bills and some in the military pay a far higher price. The UK simply follows US policy as seen at the Obama/Cameron 'love in' in Washington this past week. I really don't see why we should be interfering in the affairs of other nations overseas, let them sort out their own differences , fight amongst themselves and then negotiate and trade with whoever comes out on top. I reckon had we done so then we'd have had very little trouble at all from any 'terrorists'. Our actions have served to stir them up against us. Edited January 17, 2015 by GrandmasterP 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted January 17, 2015 I honestly believe that's why Obama didn't participate or send anyone to participate. Because it reinforces Us vs. Them. He knows better. I see him as an enlightened one in a very unenlightened circumstance, working one day at a time for betterment. But my eyes could always be 'off'. It's just something I've seen since his first week in office. (I know I've predictably just set the stage for the next 23 posts) No because he is a Muslim and because he said this?? http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/09/25/obama-denounces-anti-islam-film-during-u-n-speech-an-insult-not-only-to-muslims-but-to-america-as-well/ That's funny...Obama is enlightened...hahahaha This is the man who thinks Russia produces nothing. Yet, the country is selling 60 heavy space rocket engines to an US private space travel company worth over $1b. This is the man who literally started or make the Ukrainian crisis worst with the Russian sanctions. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted January 17, 2015 So I'm confused.. what's Obama done wrong now? (well...the stage was set..and I'm honestly curious..) Reading up on world events and politics lately??? Ukraine. NSA. Russian sanctions. B52 flyover at the Diayuo Islands and pissed off the Chinese so much that they sent fighter jets to intercept all US planes flying over there. And his administration could no longer push the issues further with more B52 flyovers unless America wants war with China. Pivot to Asia....hasn't accomplished much but Putin managed to partner with the Chinese gvot for major gas pipeline projects for the Far East and West of China and Russia. Putin achieved this in the time spend of 6 months and Obama couldn't even do much with China during the 6 years of his presidency. Peace talks with Israel and the Palestinian Authority...major flop. The Israeli govt called his policy diplomatic terrorism....there is some truths to it because the Palestinian Authority is engaging in diplomatic war against Israel. Oh....Syria and the famous Red Line. And the whole silliness about arming the moderate Syrian rebels (who are these mysterious Jedi fighters)...of who somehow fighting FOR the IS and AGAINST the Assad regime. He is planning to arm a bunch of rebels with questionable loyalty and could potentially fighting FOR the IS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted January 17, 2015 The question, I suppose, would be: Why didn't Obama or Kerry attend the European governments solidarity getting together in Europe against terrorism and supporting freedom of speech? Well I don't know their reasons, but to be fair it was a mockery of free speech. https://storify.com/tometty/staunch-defenders-of-free-press-attend-solidarity In attendance: King Abdullah of Jordan, which last year sentenced a Palestinian journalist to 15 years in prison with hard labour Prime Minister of Davutoglu of Turkey, which imprisons more journalists than any other country in the world Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel, whose forces killed 7 journalists in Gaza last year Foreign Minister Lavrov of Russia, which last year jailed a journalist for "insulting a government servant" Foreign Minister Lamamra of Algeria, which has detained journalist Abdessami Abdelhai for 15 months without charge The PMs of Georgia and Bulgaria, both of whom have a record of attacking & beating journalists Prime Minister Samaras of Greece, where riot police beat & injured two journalists at a protest in June last year Sec-Gen of NATO, who are yet to be held to account for deliberately bombing and killing 16 Serbian journos in '99 President Keita of Mali, where journalists are expelled for covering human rights abuses Sheikh Mohamed Ben Hamad Ben Khalifa Al Thani of Qatar, which jailed a man for 15 ys for writing the Jasmine poem Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, who had several journalists jailed for insulting him in 2013 Prime Minister Cerar of Slovenia, which sentenced a blogger to six months in prison for "defamation" in 2013 just as a selection. It is, afterall, American political policy in the Middle East that Western Europe is following that has caused them to become a target for the Islamic terrorists. France opposed the war in Iraq, as I recall, and weren't forced into Afghanistan.. can't blame America for everything! If the US would have kept its nose out of Afghanistan when the Soviet Union was there we wouldn't be having any of these problems and we could have been concentrating on attaining peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis. And all those trillions of dollars would not have been spent on military equipment and all those Americans would not have been killed or maimed. But it seems America enjoys causing problems around the world so that we can spend trillions of dollars supporting our weapons of mass destruction sales to our and others' military. Well, no argument there. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted January 17, 2015 I really don't see why we should be interfering in the affairs of other nations overseas, let them sort out their own differences , fight amongst themselves and then negotiate and trade with whoever comes out on top. They call it 'initiative', GMP. They tried your suggestion in the past, and found that what was left at the end of any conflict was usually crumbs, or that other covert supporters of one or the other group (or country) usually would have dried up all the valuable resources long before the conflict is over. So now, no more waiting games - get in there and start yanking first is the new creed... and deal with the events as they unfold. After all, the aides and the advisors to the heads of the G7 or G8 are all paid top dollar for continually stirring things around so that nobody can determine anything for sure and this on-going confusion only helps their cause. A confused group of people is much easier to manipulate, it seems. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Reading up on world events and politics lately??? As little as possible. That's why I asked. edit: and I was asking in reference to the situation in France, not some nonsense about Israel-Palestine talks not working out. Are you honestly blaming Obama for it this time?? Edited January 17, 2015 by dustybeijing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) France opposed the war in Iraq, as I recall, and weren't forced into Afghanistan.. can't blame America for everything! True. However, getting involved in Afghanistan was France's way to make up with the US for being so verbal about being opposed to the war in Iraq. And France and Britain should be doing much more in Africa than they have been recently. There are many areas there that are now controlled by extremists. But no one wants to talk about Africa. And I will grant you that "free speech" and "freedom of the press" has been and still is becoming more limited. And I agree that there are places where the situation is much worse than in other places. What's to be done? I don't know. But at least being aware helps so that we understand each time we lose another piece of our freedom. Edited January 17, 2015 by Marblehead 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 17, 2015 Are you honestly blaming Obama for it this time?? I wouldn't blame him, no, but I would suggest that he hasn't helped at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) As little as possible. That's why I asked. edit: and I was asking in reference to the situation in France, not some nonsense about Israel-Palestine talks not working out. Are you honestly blaming Obama for it this time?? Let's see...4 Jews were killed and the Israeli PM went to pay respects for the victims and to remind the world that terrorism in Israel committed by the Palestinians is no different than terrorism committed by radical Muslims in France. President Abbas, the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, was also there during the march. The middle east conflict is being played out in France..... The rise of anti Jews sentiments in France have much to do with what is happening in the middle east...radical Muslims finding reasons to hate and to kill Jews. Also, the present of the Israeli PM during the March struck a nerve with many major Muslim countries...like Turkey. The Turkey PM got upset over this too. The same Turkey who supports the IS secretly and the same country which stood idled when Kobane was overtaken by the IS. For a while, Turkey refused to allow Kurds to return to Kobane and to fight the IS. He accused Israel for being a terrorist state over the war in Gaza. Edited January 17, 2015 by ChiForce 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Well I don't know their reasons, but to be fair it was a mockery of free speech. https://storify.com/tometty/staunch-defenders-of-free-press-attend-solidarity In attendance: King Abdullah of Jordan, which last year sentenced a Palestinian journalist to 15 years in prison with hard labour Prime Minister of Davutoglu of Turkey, which imprisons more journalists than any other country in the world Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel, whose forces killed 7 journalists in Gaza last year Foreign Minister Lavrov of Russia, which last year jailed a journalist for "insulting a government servant" Foreign Minister Lamamra of Algeria, which has detained journalist Abdessami Abdelhai for 15 months without charge The PMs of Georgia and Bulgaria, both of whom have a record of attacking & beating journalists Prime Minister Samaras of Greece, where riot police beat & injured two journalists at a protest in June last year Sec-Gen of NATO, who are yet to be held to account for deliberately bombing and killing 16 Serbian journos in '99 President Keita of Mali, where journalists are expelled for covering human rights abuses Sheikh Mohamed Ben Hamad Ben Khalifa Al Thani of Qatar, which jailed a man for 15 ys for writing the Jasmine poem Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, who had several journalists jailed for insulting him in 2013 Prime Minister Cerar of Slovenia, which sentenced a blogger to six months in prison for "defamation" in 2013 just as a selection. I want to point out that contrary to what the propaganda organs have been spreading by using media manipulation methods, those politicians, because they know how much they are hated for what they did, did not march with the millions of people and thus didn't actually participate in the rally. They took a stroll with a bunch of officials outside of the event, in a special setup on a closed street, with high security measures, very likely also before or after the real event. German source: https://propagandaschau.wordpress.com/2015/01/13/lugenpresse-ard-und-zdf-tauschen-und-belugen-die-zuschauer-uber-massendemo-in-paris/ This is basically on the same level as when a dictator pays people for applauding when he marches for the cameras. Edited January 17, 2015 by Owledge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted January 17, 2015 I want to point out that contrary to what the propaganda organs have been spreading by using media manipulation methods, those politicians, because they know how much they are hated for what they did, did not march with the masses. They took a stroll with a bunch of officials outside of the event, in a special setup on a closed street, with high security measures. And many of these middle east leaders and Kings have been courting France to recognize the Palestinian Statehood. There is a wider networks of players here who need the French supports. And this terrorist act is counter productive in their diplomatic war against Israel. That's why they have to be there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted January 17, 2015 German source: https://propagandaschau.wordpress.com/2015/01/13/lugenpresse-ard-und-zdf-tauschen-und-belugen-die-zuschauer-uber-massendemo-in-paris/ This is basically on the same level as when a dictator pays people for applauding when he marches for the cameras. oh, mein Gott, die Lügenpresse! http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/bild-von-kundgebung-in-paris-ein-gestelltes-foto-darf-geschichte-schreiben-1.2302160 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted January 17, 2015 True. However, getting involved in Afghanistan was France's way to make up with the US for being so verbal about being opposed to the war in Iraq. And France and Britain should be doing much more in Africa than they have been recently. There are many areas there that are now controlled by extremists. But no one wants to talk about Africa. And I will grant you that "free speech" and "freedom of the press" has been and still is becoming more limited. And I agree that there are places where the situation is much worse than in other places. What's to be done? I don't know. But at least being aware helps so that we understand each time we lose another piece of our freedom. No. France considers that ISIS (and AQ) needs to be "wiped out" but that the USA was wrong to invade Iraq in the first place and the French continue to refuse to step foot in the place (at the moment). However, although they are not putting boots on the ground, they are dropping munitions and prior to the incidents in Paris they had already dispatched the "Charlie" (de Gaulle) to ensure that they could fly these interdictions from French territory. Furthermore, regarding Africa: despite wordwide howls of protest (at the time) the French hit AQ in Mali hard and fast and there are still some 3,500 French and Foreign regulars and irregulars mopping-up the remnants of AQ in North Africa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted January 17, 2015 I want to point out that contrary to what the propaganda organs have been spreading by using media manipulation methods, those politicians, because they know how much they are hated for what they did, did not march with the millions of people and thus didn't actually participate in the rally. They took a stroll with a bunch of officials outside of the event, in a special setup on a closed street, with high security measures, very likely also before or after the real event. No need for bold. You want to talk about propaganda? Media manipulation? http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/11/world/charlie-hebdo-paris-march/ I wasn't there, so I can't say who was... But I'm willing to bet that some of those people listed were there. At the very least, Cameron was there, no? http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/article1492815.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2014_12_06 Free speech my arse. I likely don't agree with the opinions of those who wish they could express themselves more freely about immigration etc, but I believe they should be allowed to say whatever the fuck they want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Let's see...4 Jews were killed and the Israeli PM went to pay respects for the victims and to remind the world that terrorism in Israel committed by the Palestinians is no different than terrorism committed by radical Muslims in France. President Abbas, the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, was also there during the march. The middle east conflict is being played out in France..... The rise of anti Jews sentiments in France have much to do with what is happening in the middle east...radical Muslims finding reasons to hate and to kill Jews. Are you Jewish? Cos it seems like... nobody who doesn't have a vested interest in all this would be quite so.. pro-Jew, anti-Muslim... Edited January 17, 2015 by dustybeijing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted January 17, 2015 Obama sees the Oneness of all, and therefore didn't want to solidify standing with the Western leaders in such a manner. Only time will tell as to his enlightenment. All I know is that I can see it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted January 17, 2015 Are you Jewish? Hahah...are you Muslim??? My dear friend, I have a precognitive dream about the new existential threat the Israelis are currently facing. You can say I am almost Jewish and how else I could have some Karmic affinity to the Jews. Hahaha......A Jew and not a Jew? A mere semantic. LOL..... Just remember that this is Tao Bum. Some of us have "special insights" about the world beyond your traditional worldview. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted January 17, 2015 Obama sees the Oneness of all, and therefore didn't want to solidify standing with the Western leaders in such a manner. Only time will tell as to his enlightenment. All I know is that I can see it. What??? Hehehehe..... I have visions about him but most of the time he didn't know I was there. I was just watching him. If he is enlightened, at least, I would have been talking to him, instead of watching him...making mistakes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 17, 2015 No. Yes. (To what I don't know.) France considers that ISIS (and AQ) needs to be "wiped out" but that the USA was wrong to invade Iraq in the first place and the French continue to refuse to step foot in the place (at the moment). However, although they are not putting boots on the ground, they are dropping munitions and prior to the incidents in Paris they had already dispatched the "Charlie" (de Gaulle) to ensure that they could fly these interdictions from French territory. Agree. Furthermore, regarding Africa: despite wordwide howls of protest (at the time) the French hit AQ in Mali hard and fast and there are still some 3,500 French and Foreign regulars and irregulars mopping-up the remnants of AQ in North Africa. And agree. So why the "No,"? You just added to and supplemented what I had said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted January 17, 2015 oh, mein Gott, die Lügenpresse! http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/bild-von-kundgebung-in-paris-ein-gestelltes-foto-darf-geschichte-schreiben-1.2302160 Good example of a propaganda apologist. When you can't cover up anymore, try to lead the movement. I already realized the intention of the commentary in the introduction. And then also providing an allegedly 'real' fake for contrast, while that's no more deception than what the media did with the march. The guy has the audacity to actually claim manipulate pictures are alright, because 'iconography matters' and the 'gesture is still sincere' (which it is not, and every sane person knows it). Another bootlicker from the liar press. Most of it is basically owned by the main political parties. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 17, 2015 Obama sees the Oneness of all, and therefore didn't want to solidify standing with the Western leaders in such a manner. Only time will tell as to his enlightenment. All I know is that I can see it. Yeah, but you have a very sound history of seeing things that really don't exist. There, I got back at you for the finger comment. Hehehe. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted January 17, 2015 Yeah, but you have a very sound history of seeing things that really don't exist. There, I got back at you for the finger comment. Hehehe. Hehehehe..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
