Infinity Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Wait a minute! What is being used when you are sleeping and having a dream? Not you conscious mind because during the dream you are not aware that you are dreaming. Â Yes, there is only one brain. There is the conscious aspect of it and the unconscious aspect of it. Â some people are aware in there dreams 'lucid dreams'. I can't talk now as my sons wants his paper dragon fixed :-) Â The only way to test this is try it and you may be surprised. Just try 50-70 words or so and consciously decide what is real with your reason and see what happens... Â MH what do the classics say? Muktukanada wrote the play of consciousness. Â What did Ramana say? and others? Â bye for now Edited January 10, 2015 by Infinity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infinity Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) some are going to be harder to unravel as you are conditioned. Â Maybe swap lists or talk, reason and argue out the difficult ones together. Â See what happens. As you become more aware you resolve the ones that were not resolved as the process unfolds! Â It is an interesting exercise... Edited January 10, 2015 by Infinity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 10, 2015 some people are aware in there dreams 'lucid dreams'. I can't talk now as my sons wants his paper dragon fixed :-) Â The only way to test this is try it and you may be surprised. Just try 50-70 words or so and consciously decide what is real with your reason and see what happens... Â MH what do the classics say? Muktukanada wrote the play of consciousness. Â What did Ramana say? and others? Â bye for now "Some people" doesn't count. If it is not "everyone" then it isn't true. Â Chuang Tzu said that he didn't know whether he was a butterfly dreaming he was Chuang Tzu or that he was Chuang Tzu dreaming he was a butterfly. But I will damn sure bet you that as soon as he tried flying he quickly realized that he was not a butterfly. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silent Answers Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) "Your illusions are different to mine. Your world is subjective! Thats why people argue about 'reality' thats why wars happen." Â We flip back and forth as necessary but my world is never fully subjective. Sure the language I'm using right now to talk with you might just be black shapes on a screen, but we know they are a necessity to enjoy this game on multiplayer mode. Â I've never debated with you that I know the secret of reality in it's entirety...and I'm really not looking for a war, as much as I am just killing time. Â I did, however, say that perspective is everything if you're relying on senses and words to sort out the unsortable of what is and isn't an illusion. Â There are things that make other things happen, and that's fun to know. We can label those to teach others and gain more insight. That's about as good as it gets. Â Walking the middle path is great, if thats what you're doing and enjoying so much. Edited January 10, 2015 by Silent Answers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infinity Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) "Your illusions are different to mine. Your world is subjective! Thats why people argue about 'reality' thats why wars happen."  We flip back and forth as necessary but my world is never fully subjective. Sure the language I'm using right now to talk with you might just be black shapes on a screen, but we know they are a necessity to enjoy this game on multiplayer mode.  I've never debated with you that I know the secret of reality in it's entirety...and I'm really not looking for a war, as much as I am just killing time.  I did, however, say that perspective is everything if you're relying on senses and words to sort out the unsortable of what is and isn't an illusion.  There are things that make other things happen, and that's fun to know. We can label those to teach others and gain more insight. That's about as good as it gets.  Walking the middle path is great, if thats what you're doing and enjoying so much.  Maybe when you put it in those two columns you consciously see in front of you in black and white what is illusion and what is real  Would you say Reality or Illusion is real obviously reality right?  Would you say Hate is real or Love?  Would you say unknowing is real or unknowing?  Would you say doubt is real or belief?  Put the answers below and you get a picture of reality? Or do you YOU decide for yourself... Edited January 10, 2015 by Infinity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infinity Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) I've never debated with you that I know the secret of reality in it's entirety...and I'm really not looking for a war, as much as I am just killing time. Â I am not either I am just passionate and honest. After I did TaoMaster challenge the next morning I was awake, simple as that! Â Honest to god and I could not for the life of me see why no one else could see its simplicity so I started shouting and pointing. Â Now I am more settled as it was very new and disorientating and I am attempting to figure out why? Â And this is where I am currently in my understanding. Â I will refine and simplify this as much as possible and if you agree fine if you don't fine as that is my world now everything is good and getting better and better. Edited January 10, 2015 by Infinity 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infinity Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) I did, however, say that perspective is everything if you're relying on senses and words to sort out the unsortable of what is and isn't an illusion. Â Exactly, perspective is what you think is real and what is unreal? When someone thinks something is real they hold on to it but are happy to let go of an illusion. Â All I can say reason which is which in your own list and see... Â What ever you may think I recon you have seen a change in me right? Is that true? And if there is nothing in it surely that is your perspective of what is real or not against mine and that is why we have not agreed! Â Anyway honestly do what you like but I am just trying to understand this as it seems pure gold to me. I have experienced what this list does, simple truth for me. Â There is no way I can express how my life has changed. My present is truly wonderful and time is collapsing around me as I stay in the now and I am starting to see my future. Edited January 10, 2015 by Infinity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 10, 2015 "Your illusions are different to mine. Your world is subjective! Thats why people argue about 'reality' thats why wars happen." Yeah, that sounds like something I would have said. It still stand true, I think. Â We flip back and forth as necessary but my world is never fully subjective. Sure the language I'm using right now to talk with you might just be black shapes on a screen, but we know they are a necessity to enjoy this game on multiplayer mode. When we speak it is all subjective. When we only observe without expectations, discriminations, or biases then we are living in the objective. As soon as we open out mouth we are back in subjective reality. Â I've never debated with you that I know the secret of reality in it's entirety...and I'm really not looking for a war, as much as I am just killing time. Make love, not war! The best way to kill time is to work it to death. Â I did, however, say that perspective is everything if you're relying on senses and words to sort out the unsortable of what is and isn't an illusion. If I disagreed with you on that point I apologize. Yes, to the individual, perspective is everything. And subjective is right next to it. But it doesn't necessarily mean it is so for anyone else. Â There are things that make other things happen, and that's fun to know. We can label those to teach others and gain more insight. That's about as good as it gets. Yep. Cause and effect is an important part of my living day to day. Learn and understand what works so that it might be repeated, and, learn and understand what doesn't work so we don't have to keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Â Walking the middle path is great, if thats what you're doing and enjoying so much. Hehehe. I'm not sure what I'm doing. But it's working well. I guess I should keep on truckin'. Â Avoiding excess is part of walking the middle path. I do that pretty well. Â But then, I have my understandings of what works for me so those are the things I prefer to talk about. You know, kinda' like me talking about Buddhism. That didn't work for me. Not much I can say about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infinity Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) OK guys  How about this.  The unconscious mind does exist... But its not unconscious!  In hypnosis terms you have to put the conscious (subjective) mind to sleep then suggest to the unconscious new patterns of behaviour!  And there definition of the unconscious and Dawgs is that is always aware of all things:  http://thetaobums.com/topic/30012-a-path-to-enlightenment/  So there is an unconscious mind but its name or definition is wrong!  Awakening is understanding you are the conscious mind (BIGGER ONE known to most as the unconscious mind)  The subjective mind or personality is created by all the conditioning we get as children and accept.  So when you sort the word game list. With my current understanding you are consciously choosing reality over subjectivity and heho you become awake as your BIGGER CONSCIOUS (unconscious)!  I think I can take a bow for that!  And Brian I sincerely hope that gets through your very astute rationalism, honest! (That is a compliment my friend!) :-)  Thanks MH for the slightly troubling question about the unconscious mind.  Those indian gurus talk about the witnessing consciousness don't they? Thats the Bigger conscious (unconscious) I would imagine.  All my best,  Me Edited January 10, 2015 by Infinity 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 10, 2015 OK guys  How about this. You know what? Life gets really complicated when we start thinking.  You did say some good things in that post though even though I still have to disagree with you regarding conscious and unconscious mind.  But still, "... consciously choosing reality over subjectivity ..."  You get one positive karma point for that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infinity Posted January 10, 2015 You know what? Life gets really complicated when we start thinking. Â in that case you should stop! :-) Â You get one positive karma point for that. Â Thanks :-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infinity Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Awakening or enlightenment is really resolving an identity crisis or removing a delusion. Â Â Once the subject is sorted in two columns of REALITY and ILLUSION Â Â You resolve the subject (definition) from the REALITY column and see the subjective mind as the illusion it is! Â Â Do you want to have ago now? :-) Â Â When you get HERE your going to want to share too I can guarantee! Â Â :-) Edited January 10, 2015 by Infinity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted January 10, 2015 Awakening or enlightenment is really resolving an identity crisis or removing a delusion. Â Â Once the subject is sorted in two columns of REALITY and ILLUSION Â Â You resolve the subject (definition) from the REALITY column and see the subjective mind as the illusion it is! Â Â Do you want to have ago now? :-) Â Â When you get HERE your going to want to share too I can guarantee! Â Â :-) Â Having the 'ago' in the 'now' is having the past in the present. Since all we perceive is the present moment even the past is coiled up in the now. But wanting to have it thus is not the point. Since wanting denotes the lack of something and if we have the present moment and the past instantly then we lack nothing since the future is only the dream of possible inter-realtions of the things in the now yet to come. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted January 10, 2015 It just keeps surfacing on my pond... Â we are all just walking each other home. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 10, 2015 OK guys How about this.  The unconscious mind does exist... But its not unconscious!  In hypnosis terms you have to put the conscious (subjective) mind to sleep then suggest to the unconscious new patterns of behaviour!  And there definition of the unconscious and Dawgs is that is always aware of all things:  http://thetaobums.com/topic/30012-a-path-to-enlightenment/  So there is an unconscious mind but its name or definition is wrong!  Awakening is understanding you are the conscious mind (BIGGER ONE known to most as the unconscious mind)  The subjective mind or personality is created by all the conditioning we get as children and accept.  So when you sort the word game list. With my current understanding you are consciously choosing reality over subjectivity and heho you become awake as your BIGGER CONSCIOUS (unconscious)!  I think I can take a bow for that!  And Brian I sincerely hope that gets through your very astute rationalism, honest! (That is a compliment my friend!) :-)  Thanks MH for the slightly troubling question about the unconscious mind.  Those indian gurus talk about the witnessing consciousness don't they? Thats the Bigger conscious (unconscious) I would imagine.  All my best,  Me  Maybe consider the word "subconscious". The mind is active, but it below/beyond one's conscious perception.  Best wishes. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 10, 2015 in that case you should stop! :-) Hehehe. I already stopped a long time ago. It's you I'm worried about. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted January 10, 2015 what is the opposite of egg?  Sledgehammer   TTB has a 'forum games' section now ??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted January 10, 2015 Not sure what all this means if I am honest. But if you do and it makes you happy thats all good. Everyone is a winner. Â Â Well ... okay then ... if you thay tho but thometimes I think thom people only think they are winning - it ith a thrange thociety we live in. Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Awakening or enlightenment is really resolving an identity crisis or removing a delusion. Once the subject is sorted in two columns of REALITY and ILLUSION You resolve the subject (definition) from the REALITY column and see the subjective mind as the illusion it is! Â Do you want to have ago now? :-) When you get HERE your going to want to share too I can guarantee! Â That's not a bad idea. Might be worthy of a thread in itself, ie having people say what they think is Reality vs Illusion. Â What I find is when you fake it, act enlightened when you're not, you get kinda goofy and its hard to live in the 'real' world. Cause playing the 'nothing truly exists' paradigm can be brutalizing. Unless you're truly egoless. Â Â <oh, and the opposite of an egg is Colonel Sanders. .so much the opposite, it blows your mind> Edited January 10, 2015 by thelerner 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted January 10, 2015 Ok just to add a note to the start of this.   There is no unconscious mind.   TaoMasters word game works because 'You' are consciously sorting out your reality from your illusions consciously one by one.   Place words you think are 'REAL' under the real column and the words that you think are false under the 'ILLUSIONS' under the second column.   What you will be doing is consciously sorting reality in front of your conscious mind and solving all your duality dilemmas!   I am more conscious now and this at my current level of awareness is how this game works. All there is is consciousness.   When you have them all sorted you see the reality of yourself.   I am that I am   All my best Peter S   REAL> | < illusion - would you agree? You decide Is love real or hate? Is confidence real or fear? Is....   Is this like; 'balance each thought with its opposite' ? In an attempt to 'cancel' the duality to be able to see beyond the duality ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infinity Posted January 10, 2015 Hi all, Jeff whom I love dearly has suggested I use the word subconscious and I know this is a must better idea. Â I will start another thread shortly... Â Thanks my friend :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted January 10, 2015 Wait a minute! What is being used when you are sleeping and having a dream? Not you conscious mind because during the dream you are not aware that you are dreaming. Â Yes, there is only one brain. There is the conscious aspect of it and the unconscious aspect of it. Â Â Not for me ... the other night, in a dream, I was telling the people in my dream that I had a dream and in that dream within the dream I urged myself to remember it was a dream, then, when telling the dream people in my dream that I remembered my dream within a dream was real I suddenly realised and told them 'this is a dream too' . Â But I do agree with you that the unconscious exists. Â I think we are conscious in a dream , some dreams, we react and respond to things in the dream, it is some type of consciousness - we are 'aware' of things happening to us (even if they are 'imagined'). Â My unconscious seems to function best when I am fully awake. It chugs away in there and spits out results into my consciousness. Â If I stop and refocus and shine the light of my consciousness 'in there' I can then consciously observe, to an extent, its workings and connections and how it spits out results ... but its awfully quantumly complex (to my consciousness) .... best just to shut the lid and ignore it and leave it up to its job (like an old Mk II Jaguar motor - how on earth did they get all that ... in there ? ! ). Â Â Â Â Â 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted January 10, 2015 Â I am not either I am just passionate and honest. After I did TaoMaster challenge the next morning I was awake, simple as that! Â Honest to god and I could not for the life of me see why no one else could see its simplicity so I started shouting and pointing. Â Â Yet, when I did the exercise with superpartners you seem confused about what I did and why . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted January 10, 2015 Maybe consider the word "subconscious". The mind is active, but it below/beyond one's conscious perception. Best wishes. Â For me subconscious is just below the surface. Â Unconscious is in the depths of the pond ... we cant see the object at all. Â Subconscious we can just make out the shape and form, we can see 'something'. Â Conscious, it has surfaced and is in the air, we can turn it around and examine it. Â Consciousness is like a light that shines on things an illuminates them. All unlit (in the psyche) is 'unconsciousness' or 'autonomous' .... 'self-operating'. However we can turn our awareness on it and bring it to consciousness. Â Harpur has a great passage on how dreaming has conscious elements to it in regard to action and reaction ... I might try and find it later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infinity Posted January 10, 2015 please see http://thetaobums.com/topic/37370-enlightenment-as-i-understand-it/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
