Generative force, relationship, and vasectomy

[BearlyTao]

I respect those who perform retention, to each their own. Personally it will be a partial practice at best, engaged and very much enjoying the pleasures of the flesh. I've heard mention of methods to enjoy without normal release of force but unfamiliar with names/techniques and I would a appreciate being pointed in the right direction. --Looking back I can affirm during a time of physical cultivation and circumstantial retention I felt quite an energy, though at the time knew nothing of generative force, looking back it makes perfect sense.

 

Also I'm curious to hear from retention practitioners what kinds of effects it has on intimate relationships.

 

 

Also I've had a vasectomy performed, (if the procedure was successfull) no new semen will be created, and there should be no viable semen in storage (4 month shelf life) by the middle of next month. I wonder how/if this procedure effect retention and other energy systems.

[joeblast]

what on earth gave you the impression that no new spermatozoa will be created? all that did was cut off an exit path. they are naturally reabsorbed.

 

all prior rules still apply with the exception of the pregnancy one.

 

if anything, going overboard has the potential to exceed the rate at which they can be reabsorbed and there could be blockage as a result.

Edited January 9, 2015 by joeblast

[松永道]

Interesting idea..

 

If the sperm doesn't leave the body does it still result in Jing/essence depletion? I wonder if there are any longevity/general health studies of men who have undergone vasectomies. If it really results in essence retention men with vasectomies should on average enjoy a longer life span and better health.

[joeblast]

Do people understand what a vasectomy really is to be asking these questions?

 

All it is, is a severing and cauterization of the vas deferens. So things like prostatic fluid and everything that comes from the seminal vesicles, all still there. So if one puts this into a context of essence conservation - there ostensibly are no differences between having had a vasectomy and not. It only prevents the spermatozoa from mixing with the rest of the fluids - that is all.

[BearlyTao]

But the spermatoza never leave the body, so a fraction of the equation is never lost. The question is the effects of that retained portion.

 

Edit-

Though it might be an unfamiliarity with the concepts of essence conservation on my part. Personally I see it as part of the 'package'. While perhaps not a great influence on conservation the body likely does use some resources to create the spermatoza.

Edited January 10, 2015 by BearlyTao

[松永道]

But the spermatoza never leave the body, so a fraction of the equation is never lost. The question is the effects of that retained portion.

Exactly. Fluid is lost but sperm isn't. Therefore sperm never needs to be regenerated. The body resources used to generate new sperm can be used for something else. The point of celibacy in cultivation is to conserve these generative resources and use them elsewhere. So what happens when these resources are forcibly conserved in the case of vasectomy?

Edited January 11, 2015 by 松永道

[soaring crane]

But the spermatoza never leave the body,

 

everything leaves the body. The sperm cells, which continue to be produced at the pre-op rate, are simply absorbed. They leave the body through different channels than nature intended, but they go nonetheless.

[joeblast]

"pre-op rate" = see what I have said about mindstate and efferent nerves

[soaring crane]

"pre-op rate" = see what I have said about mindstate and efferent nerves

 

whoopsie, I only saw your second post

[Aetherous]

I've heard one school of thought saying flat out that vasectomies are the absolute worst thing one can do on the spiritual path (the path that uses creative energy for spiritual progress). Not to freak you out, but it's good to have that perspective here as well, in case others are thinking of getting this procedure done. That school actually doesn't accept you as a student if you're vasectomied. This is just one idea.

 

Another school of thought wasn't really sure...one practitioner said that the internal practices seemed to work just as well after the procedure.

As for the health of vasectomied men, we don't hear warnings that their health diminishes from the procedure. So perhaps you won't notice a big difference.

[joeblast]

whoopsie, I only saw your second post

oh, that was just reinforcing what you wrote

 

 

 

 

imho sects that freak out about such a thing are misinformed and superstitious, dont understand what it is, perhaps - or its just the whole modification thing, in which case I'd wonder how they viewed a hormonal "solution" ...which I view with the same sort of...view...as those guys say about the other "modification"...

Edited January 11, 2015 by joeblast

[Aetherous]

imho sects that freak out about such a thing are misinformed and superstitious

 

Could be.

[soaring crane]

I've heard one school of thought saying flat out that vasectomies are the absolute worst thing one can do on the spiritual path

 

Well, did that school of thought simply say that, or could they support their claim with reasoning and well-researched evidence (and dd they have a better understanding of the procedure than has been displayed in this thread so far)? I suspect it's just a baseless, conformist view.

 

I'd say one of the absolute worst things one can do on a spiritual path is be affected by other people's biases and baseless fears.

[Aetherous]

Well, did that school of thought simply say that, or could they support their claim with reasoning and well-researched evidence (and dd they have a better understanding of the procedure than has been displayed in this thread so far)? I suspect it's just a baseless, conformist view.

 

I'd say one of the absolute worst things one can do on a spiritual path is be affected by other people's biases and baseless fears.

 

No well-researched evidence, they simply said it. I question the claims that theirs is a biased and baseless fear. They are, in fact, the teachers of that school...whereas we here don't even know what school is being referred to, and are not teachers of any legitimate school, much less one along the same lines.

[vonkrankenhaus]

What is the purpose or reason for vasectomy?

 

Is it "birth control"? Or is it something else?

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[soaring crane]

No well-researched evidence, they simply said it. I question the claims that theirs is a biased and baseless fear. They are, in fact, the teachers of that school...whereas we here don't even know what school is being referred to, and are not teachers of any legitimate school, much less one along the same lines.

 

well, I have to honestly say that I consider the way you mention "it's good to have that perspective here as well", and that perspective turns out to come from some nameless "school of thought" with no basis for the statement, rather irresponsible. That's what I mean with baseless fears. If you're going to implant the grain of doubt, the fear, that this procedure can be the "absolute worst thing" a person can do, in a thread started by a person who has had it done, then you should really be prepared to back it up with more than what you've offered thus far.

 

Does this school have access to statistics or something like that? Have they witnessed time and again men failing to progress on their spiritual path due solely, exclusively, to having had a vasectomy? I doubt it. It just sounds like run of the mill spiritualism dogma to me. As confirmation of the validity of their view, you only offer a defferential, "they're the teachers of that school", and that actually go a ways toward solidifying my opinion.

 

JB and I have already pointed out that the procedure doesn't actually change anything other than the route the sperm cells take out of the body. There's solid, empirical evidence of that fact. Nothing else changes, except the man can feel a lot more comfortable during sex, and the woman, too (meaning, the positives could well far outweigh any sketchy, unfounded fears or prohibitions, especially of the spiritual kind).

 

Sorry if this comes over as too confrontational but your original statement rings of programming, and that's one of the things that I've had a lot of personal experience with, and don't harmonize wíth.

[soaring crane]

What is the purpose or reason for vasectomy?

 

Is it "birth control"? Or is it something else?

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

That's the only purpose I can think of. Unless a person is unusually environmentally conscious and wants to reduce the number of condoms polluting the world?

[Aetherous]

well, I have to honestly say that I consider the way you mention "it's good to have that perspective here as well", and that perspective turns out to come from some nameless "school of thought" with no basis for the statement, rather irresponsible.

 

On the other hand, I felt that praising vasectomy as a totally harmless and good thing, without presenting this other opinion to the forum, would be rather irresponsible seeing as how it is an actual teaching out there.

 

I'm not in a position to support the view of this school, or say where it comes from. Just throwing it out there for the benefit of others...I didn't personally state it in a dogmatic way, as if it were the absolute truth. I said it's a school of thought, and offered the other school of thought as well.

[joeblast]

still seems like those guys are equating vasectomy with castration...there is no other context by with it could be considered "the absolute worst thing" to do

Edited January 12, 2015 by joeblast

[vonkrankenhaus]

Why would people be having sex if they didn't want children?

 

And why wouldn't they try some kind of less invasive thing first?

 

Every woman has an indicator on their body that shows pretty much exactly when they are ovulating - would it be of help if they could see and use that as a guide?

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[joeblast]

that's kinda like saying I dont think anyone drinks to get drunk

[Aetherous]

still seems like those guys are equating vasectomy with castration...there is no other context by with it could be considered "the absolute worst thing" to do

 

True, that would be worse. lol!