Conflicting Info

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

In the book in Reference here at the library, it claims that Heads is Yin and Tails is Yang, but the book i checked out for my own studying claims the reverse.

Intuition tells me that heads is Yang, as teh book i checked out says; but more to the point, intuition tells me to go with what intuition says!


So what better place to help clear my confusion that The Tao Bums?

[Daeluin]

Depends on your perspective.

Is it landing flat? Then one side is facing ☰, one side is facing ☷.

 

The heads and tails analogy is similar to a front and back perspective.

Is front yang or yin? Is back yang or yin?

 

The back is considered more yang in terms of the governing vessel and the cutanious regions.

But others have found plenty of conviction for the reverse interpretation.

 

I've heard if you hang upside-down in a closet for a couple days, you will recalibrate what up and down mean, and your vision will flip. And then if you stop hanging upside-down you can walk around looking up at the ground and down at the sky until it recalibrates again.

 

Is the head lifted up to the sky or buried in the sand?

 

I dunno how to answer this question in its absolute terms, but if there's a specific reason you need to differentiate the yin and yang on a coin, a focused perspective might yield a more clear interpretation.

[mYTHmAKER]

Looks like a job for Taomaster

 

On a human the front is yin the back yang

Edited January 12, 2015 by mYTHmAKER

[joeblast]

Looks like a job for Toaster

just dont burn it

 

which angle is one's mind viewing the toast from?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

On a human the front is yin the back yang

 

 

hmmm, i dunno, im pretty certain my yang is dangling in my front!

 

 

Well as long as there's no genuinely certain, absolute, must-adhere-to rule that heads is either yin or yang... i think the dao guides me as i need be!

[mYTHmAKER]

 

 

hmmm, i dunno, im pretty certain my yang is dangling in my front!

 

 

Well as long as there's no genuinely certain, absolute, must-adhere-to rule that heads is either yin or yang... i think the dao guides me as i need be!

Think of a turtle the underside - front - is soft -yin. The back - shell - is hard strong yang.

[mYTHmAKER]

just dont burn it

 

which angle is one's mind viewing the toast from?

speaking of burnt toast LOL

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Flolfolil

[dawei]

Depends on your perspective.

Is it landing flat? Then one side is facing ☰, one side is facing ☷.

 

The heads and tails analogy is similar to a front and back perspective.

Is front yang or yin? Is back yang or yin?

 

The back is considered more yang in terms of the governing vessel and the cutanious regions.

But others have found plenty of conviction for the reverse interpretation.

 

I've heard if you hang upside-down in a closet for a couple days, you will recalibrate what up and down mean, and your vision will flip. And then if you stop hanging upside-down you can walk around looking up at the ground and down at the sky until it recalibrates again.

 

Is the head lifted up to the sky or buried in the sand?

 

I dunno how to answer this question in its absolute terms, but if there's a specific reason you need to differentiate the yin and yang on a coin, a focused perspective might yield a more clear interpretation.

 

I posted almost the same thing here

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/35969-how-do-we-know-whats-yin-and-whats-yang-really/?p=601827

 

Yes, south is an illusion but so is Up. Ancient chinese assigned South as Up. We assign South as Down. It is just relative perspective; both are correct in their frame of reference.

 

I recall the psychology test concerning how images are formed on our retina as upside-down.

 

"In one psychological study, participants were asked to wear inverting lenses - lenses that invert the image BEFORE they get to your eye, so that when your eye inverts it, it's right-side-up. At first, everything appearedupside-down to the participants. But, after a few days, people began to report that everything appeared right-side-up! As a second part of the study, the people were asked to take the glasses off. Because they were now used to the lenses, their NORMAL vision appeared upside-down!! Within a day, though, their vision returned to normal. "

[mYTHmAKER]

The ultimate illusion:
Being
right
side
up.

Figures affixed
feet down
to a ball
project
at varying degrees
of
upside downness,
and
right side upness,
none being parallel.

Without gravity
I might fall
from the Earth
into a sea
of dreams,
or float
head down
upside down
in the clouds,
or
perhaps
project
perpendicular
from the Earth
for all to see
as they pass by
in their gravity suits
of skin,
body fluids,
and bone.

Life was
easy
when
Earth
was flat;
we were all
right side up,
save those
in hell
hanging
underneath
by their feet.

 

Space ships,
viewing earth,
always
look down,
never seeing
the sea
as being above,
or
mountains
as suspended.

Why does
right side up
and
upside down
seem the same?

Perhaps
we take turns
being upside down
while asleep,
dreaming
right side up
dreams.

Relativity
speaking
it’s the other guy,
on
the other side
of the world,
who’s
diametrically
opposed.

No matter,
gravity

is
the
glue
that
keeps
us
grounded.

We’ve
been
misinformed;
there
are
no
parallel
people.

[thelerner]

oh, taobums...

i don't think it matters as long as you pick a way and stick to it

here here. i think this captures the essence of the matter.

 

also

no more then ten angels per pin head

& the immovable objects wins

unless the unstoppable force gets a head start.

 

Actually I guess if its in reference to the Iching there is a correct answer.

Edited January 13, 2015 by thelerner

[Daeluin]

I posted almost the same thing here

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/35969-how-do-we-know-whats-yin-and-whats-yang-really/?p=601827

 

I remembered that and thought about referencing it, but went with my memory of my 5th grade teacher's description, including closet ingredient.... naturally it wouldn't work without the closet.

 

The inverting lenses sound a bit easier to try - I never did attempt hanging upside down for that long. On the other hand, prolly best to leave well enough alone. I'll just let my eyes perceive up and down as they wish, or better yet go beyond the use of eyes at all. Heck for that matter if one is perceptive enough what is the point in coin tossing? It's the same coin...

 

“An item,” he said softly, his eyes on the disc, “that passes without provenance, pursued by many who thirst for its cold kiss, on which life and all that lay within life is often gambled. Alone, a beggar’s crown. In great numbers, a king’s folly. Weighted with ruin, yet blood washes from it beneath the lightest rain, and to the next no hint of its cost. It is as it is, says Kruppe, worthless but for those who insist otherwise.” - Stephen Erikson

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

here here. i think this captures the essence of the matter.

 

also

no more then ten angels per pin head

& the immovable objects wins

unless the unstoppable force gets a head start.

 

Actually I guess if its in reference to the Iching there is a correct answer.

 

 

 

okay so then the correct answer is important.

 

 

I've got to know the correct answer

 

and i've been thinking it over a lot. So i feel that there is a correct way to toss the coins. One book says heads is yin and tails is yang.

They assign the 2 and the 3 to each face differently.

I would guess that the correct answer is that Heads = 2 and Tails = 3, and that heads is yin, tails yang.

[ChiDragon]

The key to get the correct answer is from the right source. It seems no one knows how to get to the right source. Unfortunately, the source may be right up front for grabs but many chances had gone by unknowingly.

[Shidifen]

I always count heads as yang and tails as yin. Yang is associated with odd numbers and yin with even, so heads are worth 3 and tails are worth 2 (the Dao is supposedly 1, so yang isn’t). There’s a little bit of Yijing/yin-yang theory to back it up.

 

According to section 9 of the Shuo Gua of the Yijing, “Qian [Pure Yang] works like the head, Kun [Pure Yin] like the stomach, Zhen [Quake] like the foot, Sun [Compliance] like the thigh, Kan [Water Hole] like the ear, Li [Cohesion] like the eye, Gen [Restraint] like the hand, and Dui [Joy] like the mouth.” (Richard Lynn)

 

In Richard Wilhelm's translation, Cary Baynes writes it as "The Creative manifests itself in the head, the Receptive in the belly, the Arousing in the foot, the Gentle in the thighs, the Abysmal in the ear, the Clinging (brightness) in the eye, Keeping Still in the hand, the Joyous in the mouth.”

 

According to Wallace Sherrill, in Taoistic practice, “the mind (pineal gland) is Ch’ien, the stomach and lower regions are K'un.” (Heritage of Change)

 

Qian is pure yang and Kun is pure yin.

 

Tung Chung-Shu (Dong Zhongshu), a philosopher of the Han Dynasty, wrote, “Therefore, in the body of man, his head rises up and is round, like Heaven's form. His hair is like the stars and constellations. His ears and eyes, keen in their senses, are like the sun and the moon. The breathing of his nostrils and mouth is like the wind. The penetrating wisdom of his mind is like the divine intelligence (of Heaven). His abdomen and womb, now full now empty, are like the myriad things. The myriad things are nearest the earth. The portion of the body below the waist corresponds to earth. (Ch’u Chai, Winberg Chai, The Humanist Way in Ancient China)

 

So in these examples, heads are associated with the creative, heaven, yang; and the stomach and parts below the waist (the tail…) are earth, receptive, yin.

 

In Wilhelm’s I Ching, he advises counting the inscribed side as yin. I think in numismatics the inscribed side of a coin is the side which has the country of origin written on it. In the U.S. that just happens to be the non-head side, but Australian coins have it inscribed on the head side.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Shidifen

[tara]

Keep it simple. Just decide for yourself and stick to it (see post No.8). That is what my teacher says, too. 

[Wu Ming Jen]

What can be protected like the front of the body is considered yin, what is not protected like the back is considered yang. outside arms yang,inside arms yin ( you can fold your arms as example).  For the  I ching 3 heads is yang, 3 tails is yin a bit confusing. I have tried it the opposite way with 3 heads being yin but went back to 3 heads yang.  

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i dont think any of this has cleared much of anything up...! 

But i will keep an eye on the thread anyways n_n

Thanks for all the help, everyone!

[gendao]

Again, everyone is completely missing the macropoint here...lol.

Conflicting Info

In the book in Reference here at the library, it claims that Heads is Yin and Tails is Yang, but the book i checked out for my own studying claims the reverse.

Intuition tells me that heads is Yang, as teh book i checked out says; but more to the point, intuition tells me to go with what intuition says!


So what better place to help clear my confusion that The Tao Bums?

Your manifest experience/"intuition" is telling you that you are deeply conflicted inside.  When you are conflicted internally, you will Freudian-project those same conflicts externally as well.

Edited February 22, 2015 by gendao

[Taomeow]

Think of a turtle the underside - front - is soft -yin. The back - shell - is hard strong yang.

 

I asked my taoist teacher why humans have it backward.  He said, not backward, just natural -- we don't walk the way we used to anymore, but we used to walk on all four.  The back was exposed to the sun -- yang, the belly, to the earth -- yin.  I trust him to remember those good old times, he's an immortal.  

 

As for the coins used in divination, the way to go about determining which side is which is by looking to taoist numerology.  Odd numbers are yang, even numbers are yin.  For a coin, its face is its number 1 side  -- when we use coins for their primary purpose, monetary transactions, we look at their faces first, to see their monetary value.  A coin's flip side is its side number 2 -- if you want to know more about the coin than its monetary value, you flip it and look at its second side. 

Edited February 23, 2015 by Taomeow