native american/daoist correlations

[peter falk]

see the gallery for a diagram i uploaded describing the plains indian sweatlodge as an externalization of daoist internal alchemy.

 

 

i don't have time right now to get more into it. i'll post an article or something with more info if i can later. this diagram though should genrate some healthy discussion.

[Yoda]

Interesting! If you've studied both traditions, do you have any book recommendations that bridge the two? Is Ken Cohen's native american practice book any good? I've been thinking of picking up a copy.

 

-Yoda

[Tenguzake]

I like Tom Brown Jr.'s Awakening Spirits. It contains his long form meditation that is the core of the Philosophy I class taught at the Tracker School. He equates the-spirit-that-moves-through-all-things with chi. There is a lot of material in the course that is not covered in the book, however. This is a very shamanic worldview with a lot of focus on learning to enter and communicate with the spirit world. The world of the force/energy/chi is a step to getting there.

 

Tenguzake

[peter falk]

i'm not familiar with ken cohen's book so i couldnt say.

 

daoism evolved from shamanism so there are a lot of prallels. the elements they work with are different, but they are really just symbols for the energy force. in the fusion mandala, the daoists have four elements situated around the outside with with the earth in the center. these four elements deal with the four directions and the 5th direction the center. the indians also use this mandala. the colors also show parellels.

 

the bagua too. ultimately there are 8 directions: the major directions are N, S, E, and W. the minor directions are NE, SE, SW, and NE. all are common to both ways.

 

now supposedly, many of the indians migrated here from asia, so in the remote past, both people (chinese and amer. indians) evolved their cultures from some common or very similar related culture. the Hopis have teachings very similar to tibet with chakras and everything in the same locations. different terminologies, very similar models.

 

the long form meditation i think deals with collective qi and shen. one thing you have to bear in mind with tom brown's stuf is that what he teaches you at the basic levels in his philosophy classes he discards or abandons in higher levels.

 

in his healing class he gets into what sounds a lot like daoist alchemy. i picked up on it, and so did a few other people at the class. but most didnt. i'm not sure tom understood it fully either. perhaps it's one of grandfathers coyote teachings he hasn't grasped yet. i dont know.

 

one thing that grandfather stresseed in his teachings was grounding, rooting with the earth. and being an earth based spirituality, it is very similar in this way to daoism. but tom seems to have a mostly external approach--through tracking, awareness, and most of his philosophy stuff that stresses healing and moving objects and so forth, he's working externally to take you on the journey. it's mostly up to the students to discover the internal for themselves. not dissing him. his shit works and anits powerful, just a different approach.

 

now we're speaking in the generalist of terms here. there are (were) over 500 different nations in north america 500 years ago all with unique traditions. we're looking at broad commonalities, especially as they've filtered and evolved into modern practices.

[MatthewQi]

Although this isn't a comparative book, I have found "Shamanic Experiece" by Kenneth Meadows very good.

 

To me, the similarity that jumped right out was the practice taught by Chia in Greater (if I recall correctly) and the Shamanic Journeying. Same thing!

 

What I have gotten out of Shamanism, apart from the universal experience, is the fluid connection with nature in general, and Trees. The use of crytals, etc...

 

It is very spiritual stuff but I needed to take off my Tao hat and experience if that makes any sense. There are just so many ways to experience Tao / Great Spirit.

 

Anyhow, goodstuff!

 

Inner Peace,

 

Matt

[Tenguzake]

the long form meditation i think deals with collective qi and shen.  one thing you have to bear in mind with tom brown's stuf is that what he teaches you at the basic levels in his philosophy classes he discards or abandons in higher levels.

 

...  but tom seems to have a mostly external approach--through tracking, awareness, and most of his philosophy stuff that stresses healing and moving objects and so forth, he's working externally to take you on the journey.  it's mostly up to the students to discover the internal for themselves.  not dissing him. his shit works and anits powerful, just a different approach.

 

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I'm signed up for Philosophy II in November. I've been told that there is more focus on energy in that class than in the first one. I don't know if the moving of objects comes in that class or a higher one, but I have heard those stories too. In any event I'm looking forward to it.

 

It seems to me that Tom's physical skills training and training in many martial arts, while not dealing directly with chi or enlightenment do produce results that make manipulation of chi and spiritual growth more likely and easier.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that Tom's stuff is powerful and effective. I've been using Chia's material on and off since the late 80's and I've also trained with other teachers and it wasn't until Philosophy I that I started seeing spirits. I've done some journeying meditations in the past but none of them have felt as real as do the Medicine Area and the Sacred Area accessed through the long form.

 

There are a couple of other books that come to mind relating to the connections between shamanism and daoism.

 

One is "Taoist Master Chuang" by Michael Saso. Master Chuang serves his community in Taiwan by presiding over a variety of birth, death, and seasonal rituals much as an aboriginal shaman would. The book focuses extensively on the spirits that the master is empowered to command. There is some discussion of sexual practices, but not much of alchemy.

 

The other is "Living Midnight" by Jan Fries. Fries' works is on the periphery of the western magickal community. I view him as a speculative shaman. In this book he uses the trigrams of the I Ching and the taoist immortals as starting places for shamanic journeying. He then connects these to NLP style anchors to give easy access to these visions much as mudra are used in certain sects of esoteric Buddhism. He has a section on inhaling colored vapors that is more alchemical in feel. I've only experimented with a couple of things from the book, but it is a fun read.

 

Be Genki,

 

Tenguzake

[peter falk]

Tenguzake,

 

you might wanna talk to malcolm about daoist alchemy. he did something with chia's stuff. we discussed it briefly at one of the classes. jsut tell him you heard thru the grapevine.....

[Tenguzake]

Peter,

 

Another question...

 

>>And: don't you think there to be "negative" lineages out there too that try to rape your soul? How to know?

 

Dark forces are real, and have their lineages/orgins. But they hate alchemists who have trained in the proper use of the life force to create harmony and balance. They run from the yuan chi that is cultivated, just like the Wicked Witch ran from water in the Wizard of Oz. Yuan chi dissolves them. Inner Alchemy is the strongest way to cultivate the Middle Path, in my book, and the safest for this reason. << http://www.healingdao.com/cgi-bin/tpost.pl?smessage=652

 

The above passage is Michael Winn's response to a question posted at healingdao.com. You have been through more of Tom's Philosophy training than I. Do you agree with Michael that inner alchemy defeats the effects of "the dark side/black shaman", etc. than other approaches? As you know Tom is a great orator and this is a drum that he beats loudly in his classes.

 

Thanks for any insight you can give me.

 

Tenguzake

[el_tortugo]

see the gallery for a diagram i uploaded describing the plains indian sweatlodge as an externalization of daoist internal alchemy.

 

 

i don't have time right now to get more into it.  i'll post an article or something with more info if i can later.  this diagram though should genrate some healthy discussion.

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Peter,

 

I have seen Tom Brown pop up in your posts and wonder what you have to say about his classes. Pretty good, which ones, where, and other such things.

 

I really enjoyed his first books about when he was a kid but haven't been able to find his latter ones.... which latter ones would you suggest?

[peter falk]

Way of the Scout was a really cool fuckin book. i think that was the one that put me ove rthe edge, so to speak, and got me making very serious life changes. of course, there were a number of classes to back me up for that.

 

the most amazing classes i took there wre the higher level philosphy courses, way of the coyote, search and resue, and scout philosophy.

 

i haven't been around the school much for a few years and it's changed a lot since then, like the move to florida, for example. but, my experiences there were really extraordinary. all kinds of things come to and happen to the open minded.

 

i recommend starting off with a couple of classes int he pine barrens since that place has all the magic of where it all started. you camp and attend classes right in the exact same place tom, rick, and grandfather had they're camps.

 

funny thing is i was conceived there on a warm semptember evening at bamber lake (about 6 miles from the primmitive camp) and tom was spying on my parents when it happened. hahahahaha! when i showed up at tracker school i guess it was just like going home.