Looking for seekers / discussing my path (chill rant)

[Yae]

Hey peeps, I'm wondering if there's anyone here who feels the way I do.

 

I've heard of the term "spiritual seeker" but haven't really gotten in touch with others or haven't noticed.

 

Everything feels unfulfilling. Often nice, or well meaning, but unfilfilling. For the longest time I've just wanted to figure s*** out, you know? What is going on?

 

I'm into the Michael Teachings, LSS it talks about soul ages. I read this link and was like hell yeah that's me! It describes old souls as disenchanted with the material world and looking for something more, and basically spending all of the small amount of energy they have on spiritual goals.

 

http://www.michaelteachings.com/old_soul.html

 

"Looking for something more" brought me through interests in lucid dreaming, astral travel, third eye, drugs (but they always made me feel crappy and I'm an idealist so I figured they're probably not a good honest approach to truth seeking/spirituality... maybe ayahuasca.. maybe), then found Drew Hempel's posts about SFQ & Chunyi Lin. Chunyi mentioned at the Lv 3 class that he's been to many worlds and seen many things in his meditations. And I really don't think he meant fast-fading imaginings. I was like yyyeeeeeessssss.

 

But I still can't tell if my falling off the practice wagon after 100 days then finding Wu Liu Pai/Yu Xian Pai posts by opendao, alchemist, Antares, and others was due to my escapist tendencies or a valid step on the path. Probably both.

 

But those ("true", with complete xing and ming methods) Neidan practices have a stage in cultivation, the second to last one, I think it's call Spirit Immortal, where you birth your yang spirit body, or maybe already did in the last stage, I forget, but you begin journeying across the universe or something, doing spiritual deeds or something (and potentially creating many more bodies to learn and do exponentially more), and this is the stage when "all the truths of the universe are revealed to you". That's not a direct quote from anything.

 

It seems like Chunyi Lin has experienced things I would love to, and it seems like he's even willing to teach these things to his late-stage students. He also seems happy and fulfilled. Though I have been quite swayed by the Neidan students' words... And I've grown unsure of Master Lin's mastery when compared to the promise of a strong ancient lineage that seems to have qualms about his methods. I'm still waiting on a response concerning his experience with/knowledge of preheaven energy work.

 

Also I'm starting to wonder about my path. Am I destined to continue chasing greener pastures, grazing happily for a short while before moving somewhere else, in a fruitless cycle? I guess that's up to me, sort of.

 

But I guess what I would really want as a seeker would be a cultivation practice that is enjoyable and fulfilling in its own right, where I'm just like THIS, YES. I guess I still haven't accepted the idea of doing something that's not-so-fun and expecting it to lead to something incredible. But (true) Neidan does sound compelling because it's considered a science. I mean qigong has been thought of that way too, but (true) neidan sounds more like one to me. Mainly in the sense that there are all sorts of variables that have to be considered throughout the evolving practice and it's not a one-size-fits-all program.

 

It sounds like something my mind could actually sink its teeth into, hopefully. If so I think I could actually stay interested and enjoy it.

 

It seems like keeping up with different inspiring and interesting texts would be useful to keep a person going, and there's apparently a lot to read from these schools especially if I can pick up some Chinese. I also really want to get into a school so I can find out how many people have actually reached these high levels of attainment.

[thelerner]

Sounds like you're young, so its wise to look around, yet I find the time will come when one should 'marry' one art and be dedicated to it (and still occasionally flirt with others). You could do worse then SFQ.

[ChiForce]

FYI, the path or knowing your path and to receive affirmation or transmission of your path.....takes about a decade long!!!!! Think about what you could be experiencing growing up in the time spend of a decade and all the life feelings and emotions you must go through (school, works, relationships, childhood issues, pressures and conflicts from the society, and etc)...AND to transcend the duality aspect of these illusions. Sounds hard because it is hard......

[Yae]

FYI, the path or knowing your path and to receive affirmation or transmission of your path.....takes about a decade long!!!!! Think about what you could be experiencing growing up in the time spend of a decade and all the life feelings and emotions you must go through (school, works, relationships, childhood issues, pressures and conflicts from the society, and etc)...AND to transcend the duality aspect of these illusions. Sounds hard because it is hard......

 

I do stand by the old soul thing, I think I've processed a lot of that^ (ooh still wiggling through the pressure from society and work a bit though) and am wanting to move on ahead to this spiritual cultivation now. I was actually just complaining yesterday telling my mom it will take at least 10 good years if I'm going to be a master of the universe, "complaining" because after that I want to move to Hawaii and put a nice garden of eden-ish fruit farm together so I can finally have a diet that doesn't make me feel terrible and doesn't harm anything. Plants have feelings too (see youtube "mythbusters plants have feelings"). But cucumbers do not, and apparently just may contain all the things leafy greens are for. And maybe I'll open a branch school there if everything goes well. Woohoo, I am jealous of that fantastical potential reality.

 

But the fruit party is on the backburner for a reason. First I need truth. And for that I need discipline. That deserves all of my energy I think. I'm good without the last stage of (true) Neidan cultivation for now (Celestial Immortal). Lol like Spiritual Immortality is no big deal.

[gendao]

Hey peeps, I'm wondering if there's anyone here who feels the way I do.

 

I've heard of the term "spiritual seeker" but haven't really gotten in touch with others or haven't noticed.

 

Everything feels unfulfilling. Often nice, or well meaning, but unfilfilling. For the longest time I've just wanted to figure s*** out, you know? What is going on?

"Looking for something more" brought me through interests in lucid dreaming, astral travel, third eye, drugs (but they always made me feel crappy and I'm an idealist so I figured they're probably not a good honest approach to truth seeking/spirituality... maybe ayahuasca.. maybe), then found Drew Hempel's posts about SFQ & Chunyi Lin. Chunyi mentioned at the Lv 3 class that he's been to many worlds and seen many things in his meditations. And I really don't think he meant fast-fading imaginings. I was like yyyeeeeeessssss.

 

But I still can't tell if my falling off the practice wagon after 100 days then finding Wu Liu Pai/Yu Xian Pai posts by opendao, alchemist, Antares, and others was due to my escapist tendencies or a valid step on the path. Probably both.

 

But those ("true", with complete xing and ming methods) Neidan practices have a stage in cultivation, the second to last one, I think it's call Spirit Immortal, where you birth your yang spirit body, or maybe already did in the last stage, I forget, but you begin journeying across the universe or something, doing spiritual deeds or something (and potentially creating many more bodies to learn and do exponentially more), and this is the stage when "all the truths of the universe are revealed to you". That's not a direct quote from anything.

 

It seems like Chunyi Lin has experienced things I would love to, and it seems like he's even willing to teach these things to his late-stage students. He also seems happy and fulfilled. Though I have been quite swayed by the Neidan students' words... And I've grown unsure of Master Lin's mastery when compared to the promise of a strong ancient lineage that seems to have qualms about his methods. I'm still waiting on a response concerning his experience with/knowledge of preheaven energy work.

 

Also I'm starting to wonder about my path. Am I destined to continue chasing greener pastures, grazing happily for a short while before moving somewhere else, in a fruitless cycle? I guess that's up to me, sort of.

 

But I guess what I would really want as a seeker would be a cultivation practice that is enjoyable and fulfilling in its own right, where I'm just like THIS, YES. I guess I still haven't accepted the idea of doing something that's not-so-fun and expecting it to lead to something incredible. But (true) Neidan does sound compelling because it's considered a science. I mean qigong has been thought of that way too, but (true) neidan sounds more like one to me. Mainly in the sense that there are all sorts of variables that have to be considered throughout the evolving practice and it's not a one-size-fits-all program.

 

It sounds like something my mind could actually sink its teeth into, hopefully. If so I think I could actually stay interested and enjoy it.

 

It seems like keeping up with different inspiring and interesting texts would be useful to keep a person going, and there's apparently a lot to read from these schools especially if I can pick up some Chinese. I also really want to get into a school so I can find out how many people have actually reached these high levels of attainment.

What I've just realized recently is that no matter how many "outer" schools we try out along our path, our metapath is generally an inner, personal "school" all of our own - for seeking the Divine. To my chagrin, I've already belonged to my own particular private "school" my entire life, without even knowing it (until recently).

 

And each person has a different tendency/avenue for how they prefer/hope to witness/experience their greater Divinity...

 

Yours seems to be through finding (holistic) fulfillment - filling your emptiness and feeling full & WHOLE (unity consciousness?). Otherwise, normally you feel "unfull" (or partial/incomplete?) and are thus always seeking more. Hence, subconsciously you may be attracted to practices that fill the dantian leading to expanded being, amongst others...

Edited January 18, 2015 by gendao

[Yae]

What I've just realized recently is that no matter how many "outer" schools we try out along our path, our metapath is generally an inner, personal "school" all of our own - for seeking the Divine. To my chagrin, I've already belonged to my own particular private "school" my entire life, without even knowing it (until recently).

 

And each person has a different tendency/avenue for how they prefer/hope to witness/experience their greater Divinity...

 

Yours seems to be through finding (holistic) fulfillment - filling your emptiness and feeling full & WHOLE (unity consciousness?). Otherwise, normally you feel "unfull" (or partial/incomplete?) and are thus always seeking more. Hence, subconsciously you may be attracted to practices that fill the dantian leading to expanded being, amongst others...

 

Cool, I hadn't thought of such pursuits as such a personal thing.

 

In that sense I do have a sort of tyrannical mindset, like "It's not personal it's the truth". and "this is the best way but I understand you younger souls aren't here yet, but you definitely will have to end up here eventually". Not that I think that, but I'm kind of acting on that.

 

I don't want 100% unity consciousness yet, unless the fragments can maintain their identities... But aren't the identities only made up of a story of how they worked out their imperfections on the way to remembering their true that is the peak of joy and serenity?

 

Merging of yin and yang. How could anyone not desire it at some point? Isn't it what we're always unconsicously reaching for in this universe of duality? But it's the end of the story, not the middle. And this is all babble without actually experiencing it, since written/spoken language is only the middleman between the heart/mind and the language of pure feeling. Even technological creation is the result of individual felt truths that gave way to reason and compounded into creations. Haha, now this is really babble.

[Bearded Dragon]

You're still in the "I want all the things!!!" stage. That's ok. The whole thing with working out what you need to be doing, as has been mentioned, takes a long time. You get to a stage where you realise that there isn't really anything to do or know. That's the same as what you said about "all the truths of the universe are revealed to you". It becomes really simple. You can't be told all this. You need to know it for yourself. It's really a hard pill to swallow when you are presented with the idea that knowledge is a matter of not knowing.

 

It sounds hard but it doesn't have to be. The thing about "merging yin and yang" can and should be done in everyday life. Matters of good and bad, should I or shouldn't I, comfort and embarrassment... you throw yourself into undesirable situations so that you learn how to maintain no fixed position. If something bothers you then just deal with it. Most people have so much to deal with but choose not to because of the allure of mystical experiences. It sounds nice. Nice has nothing to do with spirituality.

 

Example: I find it incredibly difficult in my job to have a week of setbacks and not be frustrated by it. I still see problems but what I need to see is a progression of actions that are not resulting in the desired outcome. If everything is broken down and seen as mere actions then you don't get the good/bad dualism. This is an INCREDIBLY EASY task that takes a long time to accomplish, thus making it seem incredibly difficult. Not that you don't see improvement quite early. You do but it's not easy to notice. All this stuff is basic common sense that anyone with any desire of self refinement can do regardless of whether they're doing meditation or some other practice.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Bearded Dragon

[Jetsun]

Most of the things you talk about are temoparary experiences and states brought about by spiritual practices, which are fine and enjoyable but ultimately unfulfilling and won't fully satisfy a genuine seekers longings. Only awakening can do that and most other longings are usually just substitute longings for the ultimate one which is to wake up to who you really are.

 

The bells are calling us home and we sense we have somewhere we should really be, but we look outward toward where the sound is travelling for our path rather than turn around and track it back to its source. So my suggestion is to try find out the place inside of you were the desire to seek comes from.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Jetsun

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Michael Sternbach]

It's so easy. You are the seed of whatever you're going to be when you will be fully realized (not that there would be such a thing, but let's assume there is, for the sake of the discussion). Now, some seeds need a lot of water, others less; some a lot of warmth, others less; some a soil rich in sodium, others one rich in potassium (I'm not a gardener, I'm making all this up as I go along, but you get the idea). Plus - your requirements can change over time!

[Antares]

According to Jim, Wang Liping is a Taoist Immortal Master on a level equivalent with Mo Pai Level 35!

 

Who is Jim? WHat about reading traditional texts ?

 

Who is Wang Liping charging thousands of $$$?

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Yae]

2 cents: I read an article about Wang Liping where the writer visited his house and found he is rather poor economically. I don't think they make much on the seminars.

 

But I would like to see the (true) Neidan school masters who are supposedly amazingly youthful for their ages, to compare them to Wang Liping.

 

And Drew says (and I believe) that Chunyi Lin is balding partly because he's healing others constantly (sending yin spirits out of his head to heal ghosts). This also goes along with I think it was opendao's comment about qigong healers draining their yuan jing more rapidly. But supposedly when CL retires and gets to go do long cave meditations as he wants to, his hair will grow back. Sounds like preheaven practice if it's true. I think this is a practice Master Yuanming Zhang taught him since that's who he did cave meditations... I don't know specifics about him though. He also learned to alter the alcohol content in wine and send lethal amounts of electrical current through his body without being harmed, and more things. That's in CL's book Born A Healer.

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Antares]

2 cents: I read an article about Wang Liping where the writer visited his house and found he is rather poor economically. I don't think they make much on the seminars.

 

Few years ago I wanted to attend one of his seminars and I was answered that the cost was 3500$ for about 7 days seminar. Plus tickets expenses to China as he normally teaches in China. If you have spare 3500 $ for each seminar with WL then I do not mind. You can do whatever you like actually

 

But also I am concerned about the practice that he teaches. As far as I know he teaches dazuo in the very beginning and thus this condradicts Taoist tradition. Also I heard from WLP people who asked about him in China and the reply was that WL is qigong teacher and he does not teach Neidan. There are a lot of qigong teachers worldwide, and I personally have nothing against them but it' what I myself am not interested in. Regarding his book, this is novel akin to C.Castaneda books about his studying with Don Juan Matus. I do not accept such teachings seriously but you can have another opinion. I would prefer to learn traditional teaching which are described by traditional texts within traditional schools. Can you give the link to the texts which WL is reffering to? Let' begin from this issue at first

Edited January 23, 2015 by Antares

[Antares]

But I would like to see the (true) Neidan school masters who are supposedly amazingly youthful for their ages, to compare them to Wang Liping.

 

Do not expect to much. Normally term "youthfulness" concerns the internal energy state of a person but not necessarily his or her appearance. I heard only that high level masters can return their age back but they have another goals and they rather concern about spirit than about a body

[Antares]

But supposedly when CL retires and gets to go do long cave meditations as he wants to, his hair will grow back. Sounds like preheaven practice if it's true. I think this is a practice Master Yuanming Zhang taught him since that's who he did cave meditations... I don't know specifics about him though.

 

Once agian I will ask you about school and texts they reffer to. Here is the list of the authentic Taoist schools.

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32663-taoist-lists-or-history/

 

Also which traditional text describes methods when yin spirit are sent through the top of the head?

[Yae]

Once agian I will ask you about school and texts they reffer to. Here is the list of the authentic Taoist schools.

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32663-taoist-lists-or-history/

 

Also which traditional text describes methods when yin spirit are sent through the top of the head?

 

Ooh nice list thanks.

 

Lol I have no idea, sorry for talking about it without a concrete reference. Drew Hempel talks about it a lot.

 

But even for the yang spirit, is it not birthed from the head? I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere. It would take a while to find it again though.

 

Same with the Wang Liping story, it would take time to find, is it that important? I believe it was actually in his book.

 

I'm pretty confused about Wang Liping.

 

Buut I'm leaning more toward a true Neidan school. As you said it's traditional, tried-and-true.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Bluemind

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Normally term "youthfulness" concerns the internal energy state of a person but not necessarily his or her appearance. I heard only that high level masters can return their age back but they have another goals and they rather concern about spirit than about a body"

-----

 

Body is spirit, so I doubt that.

 

In terms of retaining or re-attaining youthfulness in function and appearance - most sifus today have little idea how to actually do this, and their appearance shows this quite clearly. What their training does is that it is work that helps them stay in "somewhat" better condition than ordinary people (which is really what they are as well) - and even this is only obvious at all because most people today do little more than injure themselves by rote.

 

Is this retaining of youthfulness of interest to people today?

 

Much is possible, but would anyone actually do the things that would produce this result?

 

It is possible to freely change much, given a reason to do so. One could change the shape of one's head, change the color of the eyes, stop disease processes, change thinking, expression - many things.

 

Is this what people would like to do?

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Spotless]

Learn to do the practices - Qi Gong, Meditation - the true Yogas.

 

The unfolding will come with communion with your great vehicle and words will do little that is helpful.

 

The miraculous is more miraculous than anything you can imagine - the translations are so far from helpful that they hinder.

Teachers, true teachers cannot find words so look for the thread that is carried in their works - do not stumble on perfect comprehension. A true teacher knows that he/she knows nothing.

 

Learn to visualize - this is very good practice.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Spotless

[allinone]

Learn to do the practices - Qi Gong, Meditation - the true Yogas.

 

The unfolding will come with communion with your great vehicle and words will do little that is helpful.

 

The miraculous is more miraculous than anything you can imagine - the translations are so far from helpful that they hinder.

Teachers, true teachers cannot find words so look for the tread that is carried in their works - do not stumble on perfect comprehension. A true teacher knows that he/she knows nothing.

 

Learn to visualize - this is very good practice.

 

reading your posts, it feels like you have found your treasury pot and have forgotten what is to be a seeker. Instead of knowing nothing.

 

everything is impermanent, this state will disappear sooner or later.

Edited January 21, 2015 by allinone

[wilfred]

it gets personal before it aint personal...what went in feels the same on the way out. acceptance can be a lifelong journey, be gentle and good luck brother.

[allinone]

it gets personal before it aint personal...what went in feels the same on the way out. acceptance can be a lifelong journey, be gentle and good luck brother.

 

if you point at me, i want to get his(user: Spotless) opinion about if he knows that he is on a high horse or i am totally wrong. I was going straight to the point without beautiful talk. On the other hand you are right(i should have shut up), its unlikely he even see my post or willing to answer it(im a troll). From the intensity then i suspect that state will soon peak and the breakdown will occur but time has shown that we don't see much about persons who are lower than grass what makes my question even more pointless.

Edited January 21, 2015 by allinone

[allinone]

will accept my ban wholeheartedly!

[Spotless]

 

reading your posts, it feels like you have found your treasury pot and have forgotten what is to be a seeker. Instead of knowing nothing.

 

everything is impermanent, this state will disappear sooner or later.

-------

 

My post was very specific to the original post:

 

We seekers often spend a great deal of time reading and getting quit specific in all the details but it is our practice that makes us more prone to the accident of awakening. The great shifts are often hindered and walled off by our reading - we end up having to breach the wall of preconceptions we have concocted from our reading.

 

Our teachers try to find the best of the inadequate words they can cobble together in hopes that some may glean the fragments they need to move forward - it is inbetween the words that the message shines.

 

As the big shifts take place in each and every case you will find they are not as you expected - they are far beyond your expectations, far more subtle or far more powerful and alive. Many progressions gain strength in such new ways as to constantly jerk you from your ground and remind you that you know nothing.

 

The simple meditation and breathing and self remembering in the day - this is the practice that puts the turtle in first place most of the other stuff is the rabbit chase.

 

Along the way many high experiences will take place - it is amazing how quickly they are taken for granted as we continue unfolding.

The growth and what you seek is not in the noise of the text but in the heart beat behind it. The perseverance of that beat is in the practice - constantly breaking pattern until pattern is of no value - because it is essentially noise and drops aways to become a faint background static that is then a reality one can step into and out of but no longer an automated happening within a cage of patterns that fit our liking - the liking of the usurper of our lives - our mind.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Spotless