What can you do without a teacher?

[shunka]

re: self-study

I have found over time that some of the disadvantages of self-study are the quality of the material at hand, the validity of the material at hand, and lack of safeguards often/usually provided by a qualified teacher. That said, after practicing a variety of martial arts and yoga with qualified, carefully vetted teachers, I went on to "beginning" self-study of Baduanjin QiGong ( Eight Pieces of Brocade ) using several well-thought of books and videos. In order to safely advance beyond a certain stage I sought out a qualified instructor.

 

re: self-teaching

I have found that for the average student, at worst the pitfalls of self-teaching are incredibly numerous (simply due to ignorance) and that at best the self-taught student is far more likely to waste much of their efforts in re-inventing the wheel .

 

for example, best case scenario:

self-taught practioner: "look everyone, I am a genius, I invented this rock to hit things with!"

public: "that's nice jimmy - the rest of us have been using a variety of specialized hammers for well over 3000 years...."

 

for example, worst case scenario:

this self-taught 'Sweat lodge' guru charged in deaths

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/03/arizona.sweat.lodge.charges/index.html?hpt=T2

 

Now, having said that both O-Sensei and Siddartha were self-taught.

 

your milage may vary

shunka

[ChiForce]

Have fun with this...heheheh...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratyekabuddha

 

Here...look under Samyaksambuddha and Pratyekabuddha...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhahood

Edited January 20, 2015 by ChiForce

[silent thunder]

of late, for me it's

 

learn from everyone

follow no one.

[woodcarver]

Have fun with this...heheheh...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratyekabuddha

 

Here...look under Samyaksambuddha and Pratyekabuddha...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhahood

That's interesting but what is the deal with all the categories?

[ChiForce]

That's interesting but what is the deal with all the categories?

Because there are different ways one is awakened to the Buddha mind or to the Tao???? And the liberation of the mind and to realize the Tao can take several life times too.

[woodcarver]

But if the... But if there's... Oh never mind

[ChiForce]

Self-taught is "I found this hollow stick with holes in the side. After using it to whack rabbits for a while, I discovered that it makes a noise if I blow on the top of it just right. Took a while but later I found it made different-sounding noises if I covered one of the side-holes with my finger."

 

Self-taught is NOT "I bought a 12-DVD 'Learn To Play The Recorder At Home' instruction set, complete with a Carnegie Hall Edition recorder, and I learned it all on my own by carefully following the step-by-step instructions."

Edited January 20, 2015 by ChiForce

[ChiForce]

 

Self-taught is "I found this hollow stick with holes in the side. After using it to whack rabbits for a while, I discovered that it makes a noise if I blow on the top of it just right. Took a while but later I found it made different-sounding noises if I covered one of the side-holes with my finger."

 

Self-taught is NOT "I bought a 12-DVD 'Learn To Play The Recorder At Home' instruction set, complete with a Carnegie Hall Edition recorder, and I learned it all on my own by carefully following the step-by-step instructions."

Ooopss...click it too quick. I just want to add that from someone who has been "self taught" or self realized. Once the chi begins to move and completing the MCO, it would know where it needs to go naturally. After that, I guess, you can continue to pursue in how to move your chi internally by reading up on techniques or seeking guidance from other teachers.

 

For me, the alchemy part of the self cultivation does not interest me much. I am more drawn to the spiritual mental aspects of my path. Here, I begin to seek various Buddhist teaching in helping me to advance further.

Edited January 20, 2015 by ChiForce

[PLB]

It is great if somebody can show you the best path and you find yourself walking on it.

The way it usually goes down is that you connect with teaching as best you can and work hard in the meantime.

Work, in this sense, is to always start where you are weak.

 

Cluster around the toughest things.

Accept the problem.

Listen to the answers.

[freeform]

I always found it pretty simple. Someone else mentioned this too - but what is it that you want to achieve? That's the most important question.

 

A good analogy is sport or athleticism... can you become strong and healthy and agile by learning from DVDs and books? Of course you can - you can do a LOT by yourself if you have strong discipline and good focus as well as the right tools. You could also do yourself some damage if you don't have these things.

 

However could you ever compete at the Olympic level? It's doubtful. I personally don't know of any Olympian who's never had an in-person coach (let alone a whole team of coaches).

 

If your aim is at the very high level attainments in the Taoist arts then you need a teacher - a good one - and usually more than one. And you still need all the other qualities of discipline, commitment, focus and the means to dedicate a lot (most) of your time to your art. If your aim is at the very top of the field, then doing things by yourself would usually just mean having to restart the process once you do get a teacher.

 

But again - not everyone wants to be an Olympic athlete when they work out. Health and happiness are excellent achievements as it is. And it IS possible to get that with the right tools and the right mind-set... although it would still be easier, quicker and more efficient with a good teacher.

Edited January 21, 2015 by freeform

[Spotless]

Around 43 years ago I started out with due dilligence on this journey and began with Yoga as I moved from devouring books to practice.

 

One of my first teachers and perhaps it was my first teacher said that if we got the basics down and practiced them everyday, that from that practice all else would arise - I found this to be true. The basics of posture, breathing and mindset. I had very few teachers after my practice was set out.

 

In large group settings I found great help in the wide variety of differing reactions and the tremendous intensity that can build and abide in these groups. And also in seeing and feeling so many pressures within my space. I also found lots of dogma in even the very best and was somewhat shocked to see how limiting some of the really good possible teachings had derailed into feeble fearful yet hearty detours.

 

The West is seeing a real rise in the number of Awakened individuals and many of them have become or are becoming teachers.

Batgap.com is a great place to see and hear over 250 such individuals from here in the West. They are from all walks of life and no misleading translations of their journey are needed to hear their voices and experience. This is one of the greatest archives of its type - it is the very format of a new archive for the West. The format is to interview recently awakened individuals and ask them what happened when it happened, in the days and weeks and years following the shift and then what led up to the shift if anything. In some cases those being interviewed are only a year or two into the shift and in other cases it has been several years and in some cases many years.

 

A great deal of what you will experience in terms of abilities that unfold and massive shifts that will take place are very poorly translate to us from the East - not by design but by simple omission of tiny markers and bits of crucial but in some ways embarrassing or odd bits of information that bring us to the human involved and not the end result - the exulted teacher.

 

100% of the most astounding shifts that have occurred to me were unrecognizable from the descriptions that I had read about from the East. In many cases looking back and sifting over what had crossed my eyes I could see nothing that gave even the faintest clue that would be helpful in assessing what was going on within me.

 

Today here in the West we can actively locate Awakened individuals that will help us stabilize in awakening and can help us knowingly every step of the way prior and afterward.

 

A great deal of our practice is misguided by very fine texts from the East and also by our Western traditions - to much of the Eastern translations focus on "perfect form" and a perfect picture of things in the extreme. In the West our tradition has a teacher born of a vigin wth no prior stain upon her soul and other such nonesensical extreme perfection pictures taken from previous religious traditions with the same basic birth glorifications.

 

The everyday rough road and daily oddities and devastating and wonderful changes are rarely given to us in raw form and until recently we could not easily find teachers that could see us in this. It takes a real teacher to see a diamond in a shit storm - and it is hard for one in a shit storm to see the forest through the trees in prose from the East and Virgin births from the West when one foot in front of the other is critical information.

 

In batgap.com you can find teachers and facilitators that are awakened all over the world. You can see them and see if they resonate with you. The diversity is great yet the stories and outcomes have a distinct connection to each other and as you look and listen you will find yourself at odds with them and yet yielding to another side you have not looked at - because it has never been presented before like this.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Spotless

[cheya]

Spotless,

Batgap! Buddha at the Gas Pump!

What an excellent resource!

Thank you!

Edited January 21, 2015 by cheya

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Title says it all really.

 

Anything you want; you can go far and experience many truths without a teacher - but without, you cannot gauge your progress well.

 

Furthermore, you can come upon many obstacles and dead-ends and stagnate without guidance or signs pointing the way.

[Jox]

of late, for me it's

 

learn from everyone

follow no one.

 

That is it ...

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Sunbeam]

I am a big proponent of teachers when it comes to things as complex as IMA. I believe there are naturals in every field and plenty of situations in life where you can get foundational knowledge and then go from there, but from my years in martial arts I have met almost no one with the ability to do without extensive practice under guidance from a teacher,or multiple teachers. It could be my traditional upbringing, but I feel really strongly about that. The principles are important and you might miss something if just experimenting on your own with no guidance. So my thought is, if you really want to learn... Find a good teacher.

[Sunbeam]

Also, a comment on 'awakened individuals'... As someone who has herself gone through a very intense spiritual awakening process for the past several years, I would still say it is important to recognize the difference between someone who has innate wisdom but no practicality or true spiritual depth because they haven't yet had the years in to grapple with things /gain important experience /go through some of life's major passages. It is better to look towards awakened elders who can guide people from a place of greater wisdom. I am on the path of learning and teaching myself, but I know who I am and where I'm at. There are a lot of people out there, however, who have a bit of good info but don't have humility or real education...and this is problematic to me, awakened or not. It's still important to attain an education, imo.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Sunbeam

[Daeluin]

Trust No One

 

Yes, one should not hand over their keys to anyone.

However, one will not get anywhere if they do not open to and trust the tao.

 

And the tao comes in the form of every interaction of every moment.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Daeluin

[Asmo]

Title says it all really.

 

What do you want to learn/achieve ?

[thelerner]

Don't trust everyone,

don't trust just anyone,

but there are good teachers out there, good schools, solid lineages..

get evaluations from those you respect who have walked the path,

then surrender and learn. Perhaps later with some solid experience

under your belt, re-evaluate. Continue or go on a little wiser.

 

A great teacher is an inspiration and creates one hell of a head start.

[C T]

What can you do if you refuse to be a novice student?

[joeblast]

find out how important fundamentals are after the fact

[Rara]

I don't have a teacher but have done ok up to this point. Bits of help from my Kung Fu teacher, friends, family, this forum, being in a band...I learn a lot from these as it is!

 

I now wish to learn some qi gong/lower dan tien exercises as I understand this is good for depression.

 

I seem to be slipping again, due to some changes in life and feel that I could benefit from some daily morning exercises.

 

Does anybody here have a good youtube channel for basics? Anything I've found seems either too advanced or I'm unsure how genuine the info is...

[effilang]

Everything. Nothing.

[Orion]

Before the modern era you either found a teacher or you simply didn't learn. Now we have the internet and people can learn anything they want, including learning it incorrectly. But who was it that said, all roads lead to Rome? It's hard for me to judge what is right and wrong in terms of a person's path, since my own is so riddled with mysteries. I just think you can really mess yourself up if you go into the deep end without proper guidance. Some people are excellent at listening to their inner guidance, while others intellectualize things so greatly that they can't tell the trees from the forest.

 

So while you might not need a teacher, it helps to have one. There's that transmission from teacher to student that is hard to describe. You pick things up just by being around them, if they're high level I mean. I think in today's world the major problem is misinformation, not ignorance. It's people thinking they know, when they don't, that are causing others to have a clouded view of lineage teachings. A lot of stuff has been watered down.

 

For sure, don't totally abdicate yourself to someone else. No one can really teach you how to be you. But at the same time, it's useful to have a good guide because there are so many illusions that you can walk into for years without even knowing it.