What can you do without a teacher?

[Michael Sternbach]

What can you do without a teacher?

 

Whatever you like!

[windwalker]

Some nice thoughts reading the many replies. 

 

I work with others helping them to find and understand "taiji"

 

Some call me their teacher, but really I am only a fellow traveler helping them to get to a place they have an interest in.  They are their own teachers, many don't know this yet.

I am more of a guide sharing a part of the path I've traveled while still walking my own. 

 

I often tell them they have have it already, I just help them to clear the things that they've picked up and hold on to, we must sweep the path each day to keep it clear. 

Edited February 22, 2015 by morninglight

[windwalker]

I don't have a teacher but have done ok up to this point. Bits of help from my Kung Fu teacher, friends, family, this forum, being in a band...I learn a lot from these as it is!

 

I now wish to learn some qi gong/lower dan tien exercises as I understand this is good for depression.

 

I seem to be slipping again, due to some changes in life and feel that I could benefit from some daily morning exercises.

 

Does anybody here have a good youtube channel for basics? Anything I've found seems either too advanced or I'm unsure how genuine the info is...

You might try this 

 

 

looks easy but is not.  

[Gerard]

Title says it all really.

 

Pretty much NOTHING.

 

Knowing how badly "screwed up" is this world (natural environment) and our minds as a result, and knowing how incredibly complex systems are, i.e. Internal Martial Arts, Vipassana, you have no chance of success without the constant monitoring and feedback on your progress for at least 4 years of solid practice. After than you can (and should) walk the path alone.

 

Two things:

 

1. Make sure you find a GOOD TEACHER. Not easy.

2. You are a WORTHWHILE STUDENT. Difficult.

 

Two other factors that should be also considered.

[the1gza]

Well you'll really never know now until you actually set out on the path. There was a time, when this stuff was first contrived, where people had no choice but to learn on their own. There had to be an "originator" of these systems, but the way they learned these things is often way too hard for people to accept as possible. Due to the fact that people are terribly inept at creativity, and are also nestled into a framework of toiling for even small gains, it is nigh impossible for MOST people to learn on their own. However, this is not something that is innate, but rather a learned and inherited way of interaction that folks just accept.

 

If you want to learn on your own, or learn independent of the need for "physical" teachers, you are gonna have to take a chance and go about trying something out that you may not understand fully. Moreover, you might have to start pushing the boundaries on what you think you need so that you can attain what you actually need. You can lucid dream and gain a teacher for everything, but will you accept that you have gotten a teacher who is as "useful" as one in this reality experience? That's up to you to decide, and if you chose to act the same way with physical teacher, your results would be the same. So you can learn anything independent a physical teacher, but if you are going that route, you gotta be willing to use methods that are not generally accepted as "legit" by others.

[RiverSnake]

Funny thing....the OP never came back to the thread or forum after he posted this. Ironic given the very nature of this topic. Asked for advice then didn't hang around to pick it up. 

Edited July 2, 2015 by OldChi

[ChiForce]

Funny thing....the OP never came back to the thread or forum after he posted this. Ironic given the very nature of this topic. Asked for advice then didn't hang around to pick it up. 

The thing is that a lot of times, newbies would ask a simple question and getting overwhelmed with profound answers.  Something he or she isn't ready to understand at all. 

[GreytoWhite]

Some things just have to be felt and a teacher is required. Some things you can do on your own. Qigong you may be able to learn through diligent study and practice. Martial neigong - not so much, someone has to give you instruction to "get it."

[the1gza]

This discussion really wasn't profound at all. I think the OP was trying to find something very specific with this question, despite the fact that the question is somewhat vague. However, this is a question that is impossible for us to answer for them unless we knew them very well, knew their goals, and were potentially their teacher. So when that type of questioned is ask to people who are not in that position, they get answers that really didn't tell them anything.

 

Being a person who has asked questions like this myself, I can say that a at least some people ask this question looking for an exact list of what is in column A and what is in column B. Now, in my opinion, it's ridiculous to expect that such an answer can be given to us without having someone who has the above knowledge about you. Nevertheless, when the questions don't come with that specific type of answer, then it's easy to leave the topic. 

[ChiForce]

This discussion really wasn't profound at all. I think the OP was trying to find something very specific with this question, despite the fact that the question is somewhat vague. However, this is a question that is impossible for us to answer for them unless we knew them very well, knew their goals, and were potentially their teacher. So when that type of questioned is ask to people who are not in that position, they get answers that really didn't tell them anything.

 

Being a person who has asked questions like this myself, I can say that a at least some people ask this question looking for an exact list of what is in column A and what is in column B. Now, in my opinion, it's ridiculous to expect that such an answer can be given to us without having someone who has the above knowledge about you. Nevertheless, when the questions don't come with that specific type of answer, then it's easy to leave the topic. 

Really?  What if I tell you that having a teacher does not mean this teacher has to be physical, a nirmanakaya being???  Hehehehehe..  As master Nan once said, even a blind cat can catch a dead mouse once in a while.     

[Gerard]

Well you'll really never know now until you actually set out on the path. There was a time, when this stuff was first contrived, where people had no choice but to learn on their own. There had to be an "originator" of these systems, but the way they learned these things is often way too hard for people to accept as possible. Due to the fact that people are terribly inept at creativity

If you want to learn on your own, or learn independent of the need for "physical" teachers, you are gonna have to take a chance and go about trying something out that you may not understand fully. Moreover, you might have to start pushing the boundaries on...

 

Not in the XXI century or the XX one for that matter. The modern mind is too blocked.

 

The age of Water (Buddha, Laozi, etc.) is finished, we are under the Wood influence, which causes a lot of ego-based fire, lust and greed are the predominant forces in the human realm.

 

And you push the boundaries and you'll hit the wall as hard as you can possibly imagine without even you realising about it.

 

Not a TEACHER of a legit system (Bagua, Vipassana) NOT A CHANCE.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Gerard

[the1gza]

Really?  What if I tell you that having a teacher does not mean this teacher has to be physical, a nirmanakaya being???  Hehehehehe..  As master Nan once said, even a blind cat can catch a dead mouse once in a while.     

Well this is why I have stressed that the difference between "teacher" in a traditional sense and teacher in a holistic sense. I think it's only common sense that you use a teacher from another plane if you can, so I'm not knocking that at all. It's what I would prefer to do, but if you can get to a point where you have consistent ability to access "otherworldly" teachers, you're basically teaching yourself because what you are learning and who you are learning from is pretty much dictated by you. This is one of the reasons why I would stress that a "Seeker" who doesn't know much go about learning lucid dreaming. But lucid dreaming can be terribly ineffective to people who rely too much on a single-focus idea of reality.

 

Not in the XXI century or the XX one for that matter. The modern mind is too blocked.

 

The age of Water (Buddha, Laozi, etc.) is finished, we are under the Wood influence, which causes a lot of ego-based fire, lust and greed are the predominant forces in the human realm.

 

And you push the boundaries and you'll hit the wall as hard as you can possibly imagine without even you realising about it.

 

Not a TEACHER of a legit system (Bagua, Vipassana) NOT A CHANCE.

The problem here Gerard is that there are so many "legit" systems in the world that, based on modern knowledge, it's completely asinine to talk about which systems are "legit" or not. Moreover, for the modern practitioner, most of what that individual will get taught, at least with Eastern systems, is gonna be so small in comparison to what's actually there, that if they do manage some sort of "advanced" development, it's simply because of the quality of the practitioner rather than the practice itself. That's probably something that most people will not accept or do not want to accept, but considering that only what, 5% of the Tantra manuals in India have ever been translated or even located by modern people, let alone Westerners, and given the highly secretive nature of the East in general... just because something looks "legit" to us doesn't mean it's any more advanced than preschool. 

 

I've met a lot of people who work with dreaming, so I might be partial to DIY learning (which includes coming in contact with non-corporeal teachers), and considering what I have experienced from them and with myself, I can say that the need for corporeal teaching is extremely relative. Again, that's a debatable statement that some folks will never agree on, but what can be said is that despite however spiritual a person might be, they can still be narrow-minded zealots who will prioritize their experience as being "truth" over other possibilities. Some Chinese people will claim that all math, martial arts, and spiritual systems came from China, which is a ridiculous claim. Doesn't mean that their system is flawed because practitioners believe it, it just means they make wild and ridiculous claims based on their experience and/or what they been told. And some systems may been way better to approach with a corporeal teacher, I know Yoga certainly is. But the question is what one can do without one, not according to Taoist art systems, Yogic arts, or other known paths, but overall. 

[Gerard]

The problem here Gerard is that there are so many "legit" systems in the world that, based on modern knowledge, it's completely asinine to talk about which systems are "legit" or not. 

 

Some Chinese people will claim that all math, martial arts, and spiritual systems came from China, which is a ridiculous claim.

 

The Buddha and his teachings (The Dharma) is the highest system of all. End of discussion.

 

The problem is that to get to an arahant level following the Buddha (seated meditation in essence) you'll crash and burn as quickly as a moth meets its fate when falling trap to a spider web. Highly complex and thoroughly tested systems have been developed for spiritual practitioners seeking to end rebirth and overcome karma. Some are martial in nature and their purpose is far from enlightenment but because they are so deep and complex if you train according to their principles guided by an accomplished TEACHER, and if you have good karma, you are likely to develop yourself to a very high level; others were progressively refined by Buddhist monastics, i.e. Satipatthana Vipassana. Training this system on your own is almost impossible, you'll quickly fall prey to the tricky, cunning and merciless nature of the MIND. Being a Buddhist monastic is not a guarantee of success either but at least you'll have removed most of the conditions in which the mind thrives (society).

 

The martial arts I referred to are Bagua, Taijiquan and Xingyi. If you traing to learn any of these on your own you'll follow the path once again.

 

So what are your chances of learning on your own?

 

NIL, ZILCH, ZERO, NADA.

 

 

Note: Bagua, Taiji and Xingyi are indigenous systems to China, and their masters do not make ridiculous claims. If you just had a chance to understand the depth of these arts and how deeply change your mind turning you into a better person you wouldn't have made that statement. Please get started, train consistently for many years and then come back here with yor results. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Gerard

[gendao]

Often, I've found the "truth" to be just outside the textbook box. 

 

Follow the rules of thumb too rigidly, and you become robotic and lose the art.

Neglect the rules of thumb entirely, and you become ignorant and lose the science.

 

Mastery is understanding the intent of the "scientific" rules enough to know when to follow or "break" them artistically.

[doc benway]

Title says it all really.

 

I'm not an expert or authority but I am a practitioner and will share some of what I work with currently.

Here are some things to think about:

 

You can connect directly to the greatest teacher, the teacher inside and outside, your true essence. This is the source of all knowledge and insight. The one true teacher. All other teachers and teachings are simply manifestations or vehicles.

 

The way to do that is to quiet the one you think you are, the one that gets in the way of connecting to your true self.

The real teacher is always there but obscured and often challenging to uncover.

 

Here are three simple (but not always easy) steps to quiet the self - these suggestions come from the Bön Buddhist teachings of Geshe Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche (he has lots of free teachings and programs available through ligmincha.org and oceanofwisdom.org). It can be the only practice you ever need, the practice of a lifetime. 

 

This is referred to as the practice of the three doors - body, speech, and mind. Each has three steps - imagine or visualize, then feel and connect, then actually become or be. And these steps take time and patience. Best to start while sitting in a comfortable and quiet place. Start with a few minutes and gradually extend the time. Best to approach them with a feeling of playfulness and discovery rather than seriousness and hard work. Also best to approach them with a feeling of sanctity and reverence for they can and will change your life if given the chance.

 

Connect to the stillness in the body 

 - first imagine or visualize stillness, then feel it physically, then become it - inseparable from it. Eventually the inner stillness merges with a greater stillness beyond the physical form. Easiest to practice at first while physically still, later with movement.

  

Connect to the silence in the speech

 - first imagine the silence, the absence of the internal chatter - listen for it and listen to it... We are very used to listening to sound, it takes time and patience to learn to listen to the absence of sound. Eventually you will hear it and connect with it, then you actually become it; and again, it becomes more than just an internal experience, it merges with the fundamental silence from which all sound arises.

 

Connect to the spaciousness of the mind 

 - imagine the space you occupy, then actually feel the space and spaciousness inside, in every organ and every tissue and cell, then actually become/be that space. The boundary of inner and outer space will fade and the space is experienced to be boundless... The space is "physical space" but also emotional, psychological, and energetic space - openness to experience and change, to different ideas and possibilities, the ability to allow things to simply be as they are without feeling the need to change anything or resist anything, and so forth.

 

Over time, if you become progressively more still, silent, and spacious, everything becomes your teacher.

In this space, open yourself to Nature, which exists both inside and outside - this is the great healer and teacher.

This is the source of creativity, strength, and power. This is what shamans of all indigenous cultures have always tapped into. 

Open yourself to others, you will begin to see and feel what they need and you will feel that your purpose is to help them because they are you, the separation is an illusion.

This is the natural arising of the enlightened mind - Bodhicitta.

 

The fuel for this work is trust, devotion, and gratitude. Treat everything around you (and yourself) as sacred. Start and finish each day with a feeling (or prayer) of gratitude and appreciation. Trust in what you feel and see. Trust in the practice and process. Devote yourself to the practices with a song in your heart. With practice, even thinking about the practices should give you chills and bring a tear to the eye. This is the attitude to cultivate.

 

In this space of openness we connect with Nature, both internally and externally, in the form of the elements - earth, water, fire, air, and space.

We honor the elements and treat them with great respect - they (and we) are sacred and they are the teachers.

We connect with the external elements in Nature - trees, sun and moon, wind, streams, space, fire, and so forth.

Feel them, connect with them, open to what they have to share. Allow them to heal you. Sit in front of a fire or look out into open space or next to the ocean or a stream. Feel the wind on your face. Just be open and connect. You will feel the difference.

Watch the wildlife and plant life - connect and be open. Never get too caught up in the intellect and analysis, have more trust in the subtle impressions and feeling. 

 

Also, you can connect with the elements internally, connect with the characteristics of each of the elements, what you are lacking or have in abundance, and in connecting deeply you will naturally foster equilibrium. This process is referred to as soul retrieval in the Bön tradition.

 

Here are a few key characteristics of the elements you can begin to work with:

Earth - stability  

Water - comfort 

Fire - creativity

Air - flexibility

Space - acceptance

 

I wish you well in your journey. Everything you need is always there, waiting.

You simply need to let go of who you think you are and be what is already always there.

Unplug and connect.

Good luck!

[the1gza]

The Buddha and his teachings (The Dharma) is the highest system of all. End of discussion.

 

The problem is that to get to an arahant level following the Buddha (seated meditation in essence) you'll crash and burn as quickly as a moth meets its fate when falling trap to a spider web. Highly complex and thoroughly tested systems have been developed for spiritual practitioners seeking to end rebirth and overcome karma. Some are martial in nature and their purpose is far from enlightenment but because they are so deep and complex if you train according to their principles guided by an accomplished TEACHER, and if you have good karma, you are likely to develop yourself to a very high level; others were progressively refined by Buddhist monastics, i.e. Satipatthana Vipassana. Training this system on your own is almost impossible, you'll quickly fall prey to the tricky, cunning and merciless nature of the MIND. Being a Buddhist monastic is not a guarantee of success either but at least you'll have removed most of the conditions in which the mind thrives (society).

 

The martial arts I referred to are Bagua, Taijiquan and Xingyi. If you traing to learn any of these on your own you'll follow the path once again.

 

So what are your chances of learning on your own?

 

NIL, ZILCH, ZERO, NADA.

 

 

Note: Bagua, Taiji and Xingyi are indigenous systems to China, and their masters do not make ridiculous claims. If you just had a chance to understand the depth of these arts and how deeply change your mind turning you into a better person you wouldn't have made that statement. Please get started, train consistently for many years and then come back here with yor results. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

The thing is that every claim you have made here has been and will continue to be made about other systems. Now I am not saying that any of these forms of work are ineffective, in fact I know that they all possess a great deal of merit. But the problem is stating superlatives about things in the world with very little exposure to things outside of it. Who here is devoutly studying African shamanism, Native American shamanism (both North and South), intense Runic work, or truly knowledgeable Kabbalah?? The claim that something is "the best" period is ridiculous because the people making these claims rarely ever work with anything but what they "know" to be the best. It's like claiming that Corn Flakes is the best cereal in the world when you haven't eaten anything else but Wheaties and Shredded Wheat, if you're lucky. Just because the teaching is "spiritual" doesn't mean it is free of bias. If you need that bias to actually work with it, go ahead, I can't honestly knock it if it works for you. 

 

I don't know shit about Bagua, Taiji, or Zingyi. I also did not claim that all the merits of Chinese people about these arts was wrong, far from it. But the superlative statements about it being the best thing for any human period... that's not only arrogant but just completely detached from any notion or knowledge of other systems. Hell, I know people who practiced Tai Chi for years who were completely unprepared for how powerful Reichian therapy was. Does that mean Reichian therapy is, without a doubt, more powerful than Tai Chi? No, it just shows that it was more powerful for those people. I personally have only practiced a particular form of Qigong outside of certain things in dreams.

 

To this day, I don't know of any Buddhist or Taoist technique that would heal years-old surgery scars in 1 night of sleep, to a point where they just simply don't exist. I don't know any Buddhist or Taoist technique that would reform 8 cavities and a 70% broken and rotting tooth to completion in that same night, and I certainly don't know of any such thing in those systems that would be available to a novice. But would I say the dream work is, without question, more powerful than Buddhist spirituality? No, that would just be a completely ignorant statement based on nothing but experiences I and others around me have had. 

 

And the superlative statements I'm talking about are exactly based on that type of ignorance. I mean I looked over the Vipassana, and if that is considered a "high-level" practice, then I would have to wonder where that idea comes from. I'm not saying it's weak, but its mastery is easily something that is a preliminary to advancement rather a hallmark of high-advancement. The Tantra sadhana I was given would have the practitioner master this process so thoroughly that you entered a state beyond thoughts and were at the level of where thoughts were first given birth. Again, this was something that was to be mastered in about a year, but even Franz Bardon's Initiation Into Hermetics addressed this at the very first level of his training. Contemplation meditation is not unique to Buddhism, and I doubt it's even "advanced" according "high-level" practitioners. 

 

So yea, you're free to believe what you want, and I hope it does you well. However, saying that one can't learn the best on their own because they can't, according to you, learn the system you like on their own... sounds like statement made by 1st graders on a playground. It happens all the time, but that doesn't mean that it's intelligent or even worthwhile to do. 

[Michael Sternbach]

The Buddha and his teachings (The Dharma) is the highest system of all. End of discussion.

 

In that case, you have ended the discussion before it even started. Leaving open a whole bunch of questions, such as:

 

What makes the Buddha and his teachings the highest system?

 

More fundamentally, do you believe that enlightenment can be attained systematically? Sort of like getting on a train with a number of precisely mapped and scheduled stations to pass through?

 

What do you think then is the meaning of the Zen Buddhist proverb that, if you meet the Buddha on the street, you should kill him?

 

The problem is that to get to an arahant level following the Buddha (seated meditation in essence) you'll crash and burn as quickly as a moth meets its fate when falling trap to a spider web. Highly complex and thoroughly tested systems have been developed for spiritual practitioners seeking to end rebirth and overcome karma.

 

Well, not that I would personally be in a hurry to end rebirth anyway... But:

 

The way that can be named is not the true way.

 

Yet unpredictability doesn't equal complexity! Complexity only leads to further complexity. Thus, simplicity is the both the key and the goal.

 

Some are martial in nature and their purpose is far from enlightenment but because they are so deep and complex if you train according to their principles guided by an accomplished TEACHER, and if you have good karma, you are likely to develop yourself to a very high level; others were progressively refined by Buddhist monastics, i.e. Satipatthana Vipassana. Training this system on your own is almost impossible, you'll quickly fall prey to the tricky, cunning and merciless nature of the MIND. Being a Buddhist monastic is not a guarantee of success either but at least you'll have removed most of the conditions in which the mind thrives (society).

 

So there is not a way to stay in a social environment and yet cultivate yourself to a high level? Yes, it can be challenging at certain stages. But it is even possible to use your social relationships as a mirror of yourself and an aid to your cultivation. It is the very purpose of having relationships, metaphysically speaking.

 

The martial arts I referred to are Bagua, Taijiquan and Xingyi. If you traing to learn any of these on your own you'll follow the path once again.

 

This may have been true in the past. But nowadays there is extremely detailed instruction on DVDs available, with every aspect, i.e. of a form thouroughly explained and demonstrated. You can rewatch it as often as you need to, whereas live instruction cannot be simply rewound.

 

You can also film yourself in order to become aware of the mistakes you are making. There are even instructors offering that you send them your video for their review and corrections. Some of them maintain that their autonomously training students progress faster than their present ones. That makes sense, as training is always something to be done by yourself anyway, essentially.

 

So what are your chances of learning on your own?

 

NIL, ZILCH, ZERO, NADA.

 

But if that's what you choose to believe, then it will be so - for you.

 

Note: Bagua, Taiji and Xingyi are indigenous systems to China, and their masters do not make ridiculous claims.

 

Oh, it's an aside, but did you notice that all the martial arts you mention are based on Daoism rather than Buddhism?

 

If you just had a chance to understand the depth of these arts and how deeply change your mind turning you into a better person you wouldn't have made that statement. Please get started, train consistently for many years and then come back here with yor results. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

Hmm... By then I might have a surprise for you! If you will find it pleasant or not will depend on you though, and you definitely shouldn't wait up for me, because...

 

 

Best wishes,

Michael

Edited July 11, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[doc benway]

I feel the single most important quality we can cultivate in our spiritual life is our ability to remain open. 

If we are unable to be open and aware, we will never grow, no matter what system we choose.

 

I know dedicated Buddhist practitioners (not to mention other religions) who are exactly where they were in their spiritual development decades ago. The main reason is a lack of openness, an inability to see themselves clearly enough, to be open enough to let go of things, and allow the natural process of change.

 

We see this so much - people stuck in religious, political, spiritual, and nationalistic views. The very act of judgement and preference, aversion and attachment, is the manifestation of the fundamental poison - ignorance. This is a core principle in Buddhist practice - letting go of judgement and preference as they arise, continually opening to what is always fresh and new.

 

There is a wonderful and short book by Steven Harrison called the Question to Life's Answers.

It's longer than it needs to be. It can basically be summed up something like this:

Questions are alive and answers are dead. When we think we have the answer to something we can no longer learn anything new about that subject, we are stagnant - dead. As long as we continually host the question in our hearts and minds, we will continue to move forward, we will grow. Over time, as we change, our "answers" change but we can only learn this if we remain open.

 

Another wonderful quote in this spirit comes from the Celtic and Christian poet John Donohue, I quote this often:

"And if you want a point of departure for this new journey of soul, don't choose an intention, don't choose a prayer, don't choose a therapy, and don't choose a spiritual method. Look inwards and discover a point of contradiction within yourself. Stay faithful to the aura and presence of the contradiction. Hold it gently in your embrace and ask it what it wants to teach you."

 

Great teachers like Jiddu Krishnamurti and Anthony Demello constantly emphasized this point.

My own teacher, referenced above, has stated that 'the single most important quality in a dzogchen practitioner is the ability to be open.'

 

I don't mean to be critical of anyone but I do think this point bears emphasis. 

Peace

[idiot_stimpy]

You're on fire Steve, you have made some fantastic posts lately! Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

[blue eyed snake]

quoted from another post, this says why i feel that a living teacher is more than helpful.

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/37249-the-father-and-son-of-taoist-philosophy/?p=634365

 

 

Chuang Tzu just won't give it up.  He loves talking about these concepts so he continued:

 

 

The Fasting Of The Heart

<<

Look at this window.  It is nothing but a hole in the wall, but because of it the whole room is full of light.  So when the faculties are empty, the heart is full of light.  Being full of light it becomes an influence by which others are secretly transformed.          >>
 

[gendao]

To this day, I don't know of any Buddhist or Taoist technique that would heal years-old surgery scars in 1 night of sleep, to a point where they just simply don't exist. I don't know any Buddhist or Taoist technique that would reform 8 cavities and a 70% broken and rotting tooth to completion in that same night, and I certainly don't know of any such thing in those systems that would be available to a novice. But would I say the dream work is, without question, more powerful than Buddhist spirituality? No, that would just be a completely ignorant statement based on nothing but experiences I and others around me have had.

Hmm, could you explain how exactly this happened and how you did this?

 

Also, is it something you can replicate somewhat at will, or more of a "miracle" healing that happens rarely as a peak experience, but not as a repeatable baseline norm?

[doc benway]

Funny thing....the OP never came back to the thread or forum after he posted this. Ironic given the very nature of this topic. Asked for advice then didn't hang around to pick it up. 

 

Well, he did warn us that he did not want a teacher...

[CloudHands]

I feel the single most important quality we can cultivate in our spiritual life is our ability to remain open. 

If we are unable to be open and aware, we will never grow, no matter what system we choose.

 

I know dedicated Buddhist practitioners (not to mention other religions) who are exactly where they were in their spiritual development decades ago. The main reason is a lack of openness, an inability to see themselves clearly enough, to be open enough to let go of things, and allow the natural process of change.

 

 

That is the main point I got from Ikkyu's biography. At the moment a Zen dude got enlightened he got shoe slapped in the face. Why ?

He was making his mind hard as a stone, again.

I don't trust big words, but yes if think that staying open is challenge.

[CloudHands]

Edited July 11, 2015 by CloudHands

[SonOfTheGods]

Everything.

 

...who taught the first teacher?