What can you do without a teacher?

[ChiForce]

About receiving teaching from celestial beings and highly realized sambhogakaya beings....you NEED to break through the attachment to FORMS.  To properly deal with your own current karmic trace....because they will obstruct your dream visions.  Instead, night after night, you don't get visitations from these beings but your mind is totally occupied by your own karma.  Breaking through the skandha of form is also a per-requisite for discovering your own Dharma gate.  

 

So, you have a troubled mind and issues.  And you tried out astral projection and other magics to become initiated into a path?  More than likely you would attract harmful spirit beings.  

 

I didn't receive visitations from the higher realized beings until I have my kundalini energy rising experience.  Before that...it was all hardwork and immense sacrifices...reading up on philosophy and psychotherapy to properly sort out my life issues.  You have no ideas....       

Edited July 12, 2015 by ChiForce

[Gerard]

Post #52 of this thread includes a scanned copy of the book Beyond the Mysterious Gate. It will show you how important is having a teacher due to the inherent complexity of Buddhism -and how it evolved from the original Theravada school due to changes in the mind and the environment (planet Earth)- and Traditional Chinese Internal Martial Arts.

 

I am very grateful for having received oral and practical teachings of the highest order by my Bagua teacher (Geoff Sweeting, living lineage: Dong Haichuan>Liang Zhenpu>Li Zi Ming>Wang Tong>Geoff Sweeting) as well as Buddhist Vipassana: Ajahn Tong monastery and teacher Edward Kooij.

 

Prior to that I was practising here and there, many systems, many books, information overload mainly from the Internet without realising the complexity of the human mind. Daily Bagua practice for 7 years have totally transformed me into a different, real human being. I remember asking one of the head teachers of Chom Tong and what books would be the best to read while on retreat, his answer was clear: No Buddhist books of any kind or any other books for that matter, only an open heart, determination (effort) and stick to the oral transmission given by my appointed teacher, and lots of hard work. He said: Gerard we practice here for real: sitting, walking and mindful prostrations 24/7 for the entire duration of the retreat (21 days). This is how real Buddhism was transmitted since the first teacher: Lord Buddha (Gautama Buddha). I also remember asking my teacher Edward what was his opinion about Buddhist practice and Internet forums: Gerard, too much talk, you should practice FOR REAL.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Gerard

[ChiForce]

Post #52 of this thread includes a scanned copy of the book Beyond the Mysterious Gate. It will show you how important is having a teacher due to the inherent complexity of Buddhism -and how it evolved from the original Theravada school due to changes in the mind and the environment (planet Earth)- and Traditional Chinese Internal Martial Arts.

 

I am very grateful for having received oral and practical teachings of the highest order by my Bagua teacher (Geoff Sweeting, living lineage: Dong Haichuan>Liang Zhenpu>Li Zi Ming>Wang Tong>Geoff Sweeting) as well as Buddhist Vipassana: Ajahn Tong monastery and teacher Edward Kooij.

 

Prior to that I was practising here and there, many systems, many books, information overload mainly from the Internet without realising the complexity of the human mind. Daily Bagua practice for 7 years have totally transformed me into a different, real human being. I remember asking one of the head teachers of Chom Tong and what books would be the best to read while on retreat, his answer was clear: No Buddhist books of any kind or any other books for that matter, only an open heart, determination (effort) and stick to the oral transmission given by my appointed teacher, and lots of hard work. He said: Gerard we practice here for real: sitting, walking and mindful prostrations 24/7 for the entire duration of the retreat (21 days). This is how real Buddhism was transmitted since the first teacher: Lord Buddha (Gautama Buddha). I also remember asking my teacher Edward what was his opinion about Buddhist practice and Internet forums: Gerard, ignore them and practice FOR REAL. Yabba, yabba, yabba, I would say.

Good for you BUT there are 3 vehicles to become a Buddha...the Theravada path (lesser vehicle) , the Pratyekabuddha path or Samyaksambuddha path (the middle vehicle), and the Mahayana path (great vehicle).  You can also seek refuge in the Sangha, the Buddha, and the Dharma.  And the Trikaya too.  Going into retreats and to learn from other monks is just one way.  However, to work with one's life situation and in its own historical context and to grasp the teaching of the Dhrama in one's sole effort is a greater vehicle.  You have discovered the dharmakaya in your own struggles living in this world.  Your enlightenment is a testament of the Buddha mind. Your merit would be even more greater if you vow to save other sentient beings!!!

 

Retreats are nice and all but what happens once you aren't in your retreats?   

[the1gza]

About receiving teaching from celestial beings and highly realized sambhogakaya beings....you NEED to break through the attachment to FORMS.  To properly deal with your own current karmic trace....because they will obstruct your dream visions.  Instead, night after night, you don't get visitations from these beings but your mind is totally occupied by your own karma.  Breaking through the skandha of form is also a per-requisite for discovering your own Dharma gate.  

 

So, you have a troubled mind and issues.  And you tried out astral projection and other magics to become initiated into a path?  More than likely you would attracted harmful spirit beings.  

 

I didn't receive visitations from the higher realized beings until I have my kundalini energy rising experience.  Before that...it was all hardwork and immense sacrifices...reading up on philosophy and psychotherapy to properly sort out my life issues.  You have no ideas....       

I can understand this, but in honesty this is an example of how forces are influenced by personal makeup. First off, the issue of karma is very much unlike what most people believe it to be. While morality can play a role, it is not morality itself that houses karma and, in many cases, moral stances can do very little to dissolve "negative" karma. From what I was taught, and it can be found in certain books (although I was taught this directly from a human), the meaning of karma is "seed". The formation of karmic seeds are based on the seeds sown throughout your creation, but also on seeds that are sown in order for people to prioritize the world in the way that they do. These seeds are sown at that underlies creation, before form, thoughts, and every other thing. 

 

So morality, and human association towards certain acts, are based on karmic seeds themselves. It is not that one act is inherently "better" than another, it is more so that the karmic seeds that people have toward certain actions denote them as "bad" or "good". This also would do the same in terms of how people learn; most people "need" physical teachers because their associations toward "spiritual" things is based on the idea that those facets of reality are less substantial than what we consider the physical world. It is also the reason why people are so scared of the spiritual; there are seeds planted in people that make it extremely difficult and almost unsavory to explore that which is the true essence of themselves. If it wasn't that way, people could not prioritize many of the frivolous things that they do. 

 

This type of reinforcement is sadly displayed in most ancient Eastern systems, and a great deal of known and even unknown systems in general. The current of karmic force that has been reinforced by ideals over thousands of years paves the way for experiences that will continuously reinforce ideals that, while they are real, are not inherent to the nature of the techniques and explorations themselves. However, it's not the same across the board, and like I mentioned earlier, many people who are practice spiritual advancement don't get to explore these more advanced or "liberal" forms of interaction because they are stuck working with karmas that are more limiting than helpful. We gotta remember that in most of the Eastern forms we get ahold of, there are influences from religious ideals that would try to "box" in the nature of infinity. Indian Yoga is primarily influenced by religious Hinduism, and Chinese work can be primarily constructed by religious Buddhism and Taoism. The religions themselves are completely man-made, and were created IN SPITE of the advice of the originators. 

 

From what I was taught, karmic roots were meant to be dealt with based on one's ability to enter the world of the formless, or enter a state where one accessed the the formless realm of reality. While most forms of Eastern work have this goal, many of them would have a practitioner believe that this is the "Ultimate" goal, when that realm is actually the platform on getting to work so to speak. From this realm, a person can locate and uproot karmic seeds that are debilitating, while planting new seeds. Again, there are ways that would have people slave at this work for decades, and then there are ways that would have a person get to this level in about 4 months. Whether a person could believe it or not, one could use hypnosis to enter this realm in about 30 days on average, but due to karmic association, many people would outright reject anything that could be considered "that easy". Even though the idea of "hard work" is an oxymoron (would you consider your computer to be "working" if it had a hard time starting up?), it's a heavy karmic association that surrounds the nature of attaining anything beneficial.

 

Every person I have ever seen who was assailed by harmful entities was, by their own make up, destined to have such things happen. They were terribly dissociated from spirituality, bought into horror stories and morose practices with these entities (i.e. blood sacrifice, "pacts"), and most importantly they believed that they needed extreme ordeals just to have slight access to this part of reality. It also helps that they were generally devoid of creativity and trust in what they were doing. Now I'm not judging these people for that, if that's what they had to go through, then that's the path they needed to experience. What I am addressing is the fact that people, when confronted with this, start to relay information about an experience that is entirely their own as a human gospel truth. 

 

What I found was that every fear that I had in interacting with otherworldly beings was completely proven wrong. Perhaps I was just imitating the fear, because when I remember it, it feels almost like I was acting. But even when I acted "unworthy" of these beings help, they continuously worked with me without being boorish, forceful, or unpleasant. It was my attempt to try and conform to pre-known ideology that destroyed any helpfulness that they could offer, and even that was often thrown aside. However, one thing I can say is that my experience with pre-known entities is fairly small, and depending on the collective karma sown by practitioners, these entities MIGHT act in a manner that necessitates following the karmic line associated with them.

 

 

Hmm, could you explain how exactly this happened and how you did this?

 

Also, is it something you can replicate somewhat at will, or more of a "miracle" healing that happens rarely as a peak experience, but not as a repeatable baseline norm?

I'm not going to explain exactly how it happened because at a point I feel that talking too much about those things can be detrimental for my progress. But basically the healing, while somewhat spontaneous, was not the only experience like this that I had. Working with the deity Hecate was 100% instigated by my desire, and it was based on rituals that were terribly informal. I got connected with her due to someone on another forum mentioning her a lot, and I decided to ask him about it. His rituals had candles and all sorts of ornaments that I was not going to by nor did I have the space to set up. He also had to agree to "worship" her, which I wasn't about to do without personal experience with her myself. I personally just meditated on a symbol attached to her before sleeping and decided to see what was gonna happen.

 

Despite my rather informal way of doing things, Hecate was very ready to work with me in a very physical way. She was very reliable, and the method of teaching was less about technical instruction and more about "showing". This was something I didn't expect, and quite honestly could not describe... it's like a downloading of sorts. The craziest thing about her was that there were a lot of physical things that I couldn't produce on my own if I tried. For example, palm prints on my sealing that were 3x larger than my head, which stayed there for weeks. There were other things, but I don't want to ramble on too much about it.

 

All that is to say, despite being informal as hell, I was able to connect with something that supposedly warranted far more skill than I had. Perhaps there's something about me that makes it "easy" for me to do this, however I feel it had a lot more to do with the fact that I was presenting myself honestly and without fear that she would rip me to shreds. What's been mentioned here before, the openness, was something that I feel is extremely important, and will take a person a very long way. Personal trust in the fact that you are naturally born with the ability to work with this stuff is also important, as well as knowing when you should stop researching and start practicing. Which brings me to this:

 

 

Post #52 of this thread includes a scanned copy of the book Beyond the Mysterious Gate. It will show you how important is having a teacher due to the inherent complexity of Buddhism -and how it evolved from the original Theravada school due to changes in the mind and the environment (planet Earth)- and Traditional Chinese Internal Martial Arts.

 

I am very grateful for having received oral and practical teachings of the highest order by my Bagua teacher (Geoff Sweeting, living lineage: Dong Haichuan>Liang Zhenpu>Li Zi Ming>Wang Tong>Geoff Sweeting) as well as Buddhist Vipassana: Ajahn Tong monastery and teacher Edward Kooij.

 

Prior to that I was practising here and there, many systems, many books, information overload mainly from the Internet without realising the complexity of the human mind. Daily Bagua practice for 7 years have totally transformed me into a different, real human being. I remember asking one of the head teachers of Chom Tong and what books would be the best to read while on retreat, his answer was clear: No Buddhist books of any kind or any other books for that matter, only an open heart, determination (effort) and stick to the oral transmission given by my appointed teacher, and lots of hard work. He said: Gerard we practice here for real: sitting, walking and mindful prostrations 24/7 for the entire duration of the retreat (21 days). This is how real Buddhism was transmitted since the first teacher: Lord Buddha (Gautama Buddha). I also remember asking my teacher Edward what was his opinion about Buddhist practice and Internet forums: Gerard, too much talk, you should practice FOR REAL.

What demarks the things you say here are merits of you finding a practice when you were previously very wishy-washy. In the information age, this is extremely easy to do, and something that happened to me as well. However, what is presented here is basing that it was Buddhism that saved you, rather than finding a steady stream of progressive work that led you to something far greater than you could've known being frivolous. It also presupposes that this is something that people cannot do on their own, and the thing is that the quality of entering steady, successful endeavors is key to succeeding in ANY line of work, rather "mundane" or "higher level". Now it seems that in order to clear your mental scattering, you needed Bagua and the works you were working with. That is awesome, and quite important to know that Bagua did that for you and many others. But what you have been presupposing is that Bagua is necessary for others to do in order to get clear-headed, and that Bagua will ensure clear-headedness in everyone who practices it. 

 

Just because your teacher told you that what you are doing is "real" does not mean that everything else is lesser or fake. It just means that it is real, a real set of work that can produce real results for someone who chooses to practice it. And he emphasized that you DO NOT clutter your mind with ideologies, but learn directly from the work you had laid out for you. The thing is that this axiom is stated several times in several different forms of work that are not inherently Buddhist. In every book I read from Satyananda, he explicitly told people this very same thing, to get into practice consistently and with determination. Jumping from one thing to the next, no matter how great the practices are, will mean nothing because you knock out the momentum that builds over time.

 

And in the merit of what your teacher said, would his idea not also refer to you? He told you to not  mind the babble of forum discussions, and yet you are involved in one. Wouldn't that also mean that the babble that you are also relaying here should be equally disregarded by your own mind?

[gendao]

I'm not going to explain exactly how it happened because at a point I feel that talking too much about those things can be detrimental for my progress. But basically the healing, while somewhat spontaneous, was not the only experience like this that I had. Working with the deity Hecate was 100% instigated by my desire, and it was based on rituals that were terribly informal. I got connected with her due to someone on another forum mentioning her a lot, and I decided to ask him about it. His rituals had candles and all sorts of ornaments that I was not going to by nor did I have the space to set up. He also had to agree to "worship" her, which I wasn't about to do without personal experience with her myself. I personally just meditated on a symbol attached to her before sleeping and decided to see what was gonna happen.

 

Despite my rather informal way of doing things, Hecate was very ready to work with me in a very physical way. She was very reliable, and the method of teaching was less about technical instruction and more about "showing". This was something I didn't expect, and quite honestly could not describe... it's like a downloading of sorts. The craziest thing about her was that there were a lot of physical things that I couldn't produce on my own if I tried. For example, palm prints on my sealing that were 3x larger than my head, which stayed there for weeks. There were other things, but I don't want to ramble on too much about it.

 

All that is to say, despite being informal as hell, I was able to connect with something that supposedly warranted far more skill than I had. Perhaps there's something about me that makes it "easy" for me to do this, however I feel it had a lot more to do with the fact that I was presenting myself honestly and without fear that she would rip me to shreds. What's been mentioned here before, the openness, was something that I feel is extremely important, and will take a person a very long way. Personal trust in the fact that you are naturally born with the ability to work with this stuff is also important, as well as knowing when you should stop researching and start practicing. Which brings me to this:

That's pretty interesting. So, you communed with and petitioned an ancient Greek goddess? Is she also known as Isis/Ishtar/Statue of Liberty?

Hmm, would be cool to see pics of those giant palm prints!

 

And if you could commune so powerfully with a mythical figure, what about a tree or the moon? Have you been successful with just about anything?

Edited July 12, 2015 by gendao

[ChiForce]

That's pretty interesting. So, you communed with and petitioned an ancient Greek goddess? Is she also known as Isis/Ishtar/Statue of Liberty?

Hmm, would be cool to see pics of those giant palm prints!

 

And if you could commune so powerfully with a mythical figure, what about a tree or the moon? Have you been successful with just about anything?

Hehehehe...I thought the point to seek guidance from other-world beings is to acquire wisdom and knowledge of oneself and others.  Frankly, I don't see a point of a giant palm print if I ain't getting wiser and enlightened from the "communion."   

[the1gza]

Hehehehe...I thought the point to seek guidance from other-world beings is to acquire wisdom and knowledge of oneself and others.  Frankly, I don't see a point of a giant palm print if I ain't getting wiser and enlightened from the "communion." 

Methinks you didn't read everything that I wrote on it, specifically the point where I talked about receiving instruction. It's just that attempting to describe it is extremely hard, and since I was answering a question in terms of "miracle" activity, that is not something that made sense to highlight in relativity to gendao's inquiry. Describing a palm print? Pretty easy and simple to do. Describing the essence of downloaded "showing" of data and knowledge? Not so simple (that last sentence doesn't even sound right???) .

[the1gza]

That's pretty interesting. So, you communed with and petitioned an ancient Greek goddess? Is she also known as Isis/Ishtar/Statue of Liberty?

Hmm, would be cool to see pics of those giant palm prints!

 

And if you could commune so powerfully with a mythical figure, what about a tree or the moon? Have you been successful with just about anything?

Well gendao, you should already know that I am not too keen on using cross-cultural parallels, so while there may be similarities between figures, I would consider Ishtar to be Ishtar and Hecate to be Hecate. Ishtar is a goddess that was worship a few thousand years before the Greeks came across Hecate. Also, while certain figures across cultures can have parallel offices, the nature of the entity tends to reflect not just the cultural ideologies of the people, but the nature of individuals themselves. It may be true that the Ishtar goddess archetype was indeed what the Greeks first came across when they were interacting with the Goddess they came to call Hecate. However, as time moved on, their cultural reflections and expectations resulted in a Goddess that was quite different than Ishtar was. Hecate has different sacred animals, different offices of power, and characteristics that are also quite different than what Ishtar is described as by those who know her as Ishtar.

 

So they may be related in some way, but if this is the case then the God Ganesha should also be considered related to Hecate, since they both are gods who are often known for being initiators of paths toward sorcery. That would be a huge stretch for some, and trying to draw parallels would essentially not make working with either any more powerful than addressing them as independent entities. For some people that might work, but cross-cultural paralleling is often a bane of the information age where people put more time into doing that rather than getting to work. When working with Hecate, and I would bet the same could be said for other deities, you won't give too much of a damn about whether or not she is a permutation of some Babylonian goddess. Well, at least I didn't care at all, though the guy I know surely was invested in that type of thing. He also was a bit salty at what I was experiencing with Hecate, and Hecate tried to reinforce simplicity with him that he was not heeding. So I don't know, but I got personal evidence that such things aren't important when it comes down to working.

 

As for working with trees or the moon, I haven't really been interested in working with planetary figures like the moon because the systems surrounding them seemed more like cages rather than liberators. Now, this is not to say that the moon itself is essentially connected to any of those things, and I have met people who interacted with the moon without heeding or needing to worry about waxing or waning influences. So that experience of not working with the moon is based solely on me thinking that those systems meant anything, which was on me. But I haven't been motivated since then to work with the moon because it honestly wasn't a priority. I have been successful, however, in working with other entities as well, and in working with self-realized entities. Where I failed in every one of these was this: I considered that it was "time to get serious" and start picking up practices that I didn't gravitate towards organically. Since the human cultural paradigm tends to favor complexity, I got wrapped up in getting thinking that my was too informal, even with what I experienced. And I was fiercely impatient because, where I was at during all this, I was working from perspectives that were instantaneous-gratifications whores. 

 

I'm glad because I got to stand back and reflect on other things like the state of my physical body and health. So I'm not mad at it, but my failure was in honestly not regarding my work to be as powerful as others, even though others thought I was "advanced" or "special" because things were catching on so quick. So that's what happened there.