Spiritual maturity

[Nikolai1]

Some questions that have always puzzled me:

 

1) Why is it that some people never seem to learn from their mistakes? Over and over you see people choosing the same bad situations, partners, jobs and don’t get it that they have to move on try something else.

 

2) Why is that aging so often doesn’t lead to people becoming wiser, kinder and more compassionate? Why is it that some people are angry, bigoted and mindlessly causing trouble and hurt to those around them even into their seventh and eighth decades?

 

3) Why are some people unable to look at themselves in the mirror and see that they are contributing to their own problems? Why are they always so keen to blame other people and the world rather than face the possibility that their own interpretations might be skewed?

 

4) Why do some people some to grow fuller and richer in their characters, whereas as others seem the same at 25 as they do at 65.

 

What makes it more confusing is that so often these things do get better as people grow older. It seems that wisdom and spiritual maturity do grow as people age chronologically, but it is still the case that some 18 year olds are wiser and more skillful at living than others ever achieve.

 

Despite all the many theories of personality, I have never come across one that addresses and explains this extremely important dimension on which we all vary. If people are angry, or anxious, it is usually explained vaguely through genetics or nurturance and is not addressed directly.

 

Well this week I came across a system of personality that directly addresses all the questions above.

 

http://www.michaelteachings.com/soul_age_index.html

 

No system of personality explains things ultimately. But what is so wonderful is that this one puts in central place a dimension that no other system acknowledges.

 

Reading it has been so useful for me. I would love to hear some of your reactions!

 

Best wishes, Nikolai

Edited January 20, 2015 by Nikolai1

[C T]

Rather fixed, but on some level it explains certain behavioural patterns, albeit from a simplistic direction.

 

In my opinion, everyone has all the traits in them in varying degrees, and depending on causes and conditions, these traits take turns to manifest, some staying for a fleeting instant, especially the truth-based ones, so fleeting that the experiencer misses the subtle transformational implication and opportunity due to habituations, and is quickly returned to delusional conduct. Because of this, it takes more circling time to remove the layers, but sometimes, due to affinity, all these layers could be removed in one fell swoop, but the thing is, there is never a guarantee these (negative tendencies) wont return. Even old souls have work to do to maintain that level, otherwise the big Habit Thief will sneak back in and steal away one's accumulated merit and return one to that infant or baby soul stage, but with each setback, hopefully one becomes more careful next time.

Edited January 20, 2015 by C T

[Nikolai1]

Your theory Is one of those Ive always used myself and it was inspired by my reading of buddhism. The trouble is that it doesn't Explain things at the level of biography. Some people stay angry and judgemental all their life and it manifests in obvious dramatic ways in their social life. For others, anger is nothing other than an occasional and wholly internal experience. But you're right, both become anger iteir own ways.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Nikolai1

[C T]

Its not that difficult to understand why some choose to be stuck and keep repeating certain harmful emotional patterns and reactions. In Buddhist view, the 'faults' are likely the hardened habitual inclinations which ego maintains for whatever reasons to suit its desperate need for familiarity. Change is one of the most scariest things around, especially change that threatens a diminishing of ego's control.

[dust]

Simple answer: every person is different.

 

To answer any of the questions above, you'd have to look at the individual's background (both familial and cultural), their genetics, and a number of other factors (e.g. some would suggest astrological factors, perhaps..).

 

Spiritual profiles might offer some insight, I suppose, but it is my opinion that the stuff on that page above is utter nonsense.

[Nikolai1]

All theories are nonsense. But they are either conventional nonsense or esoteric nonsense. I think having more theories to hand allows greater compassion in more situations. Especially when you're an 'old soul' like me and are often considered a bit useless by all those energetic ambitious materialists! It's good to affirm and accept yourself, even when you go in a totally different direction to nearly everyone else.

[C T]

Yes, acceptance can be very helpful when it is not based on pacifying delusions.

[ChiForce]

Habitual energy from deep rooted Karmic forces of one's past life and the current life. That's it. The aging part is interesting. Think about it....if aging tends to result in one's mind and spirituality more wiser, won't they become liberated at the moment of their deaths, in their death bardo experiences??? The answer is NO. In fact, the older you get, the more of your karmic habitual energy begins to surface until your next rebirth, generally.

[de_paradise]

The Michael model seems based on the Clare Graves/ Spiral Dynamics model http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_Dynamics

 

Some people stay angry due to trauma, unresolved, and locked in their body/mind.

[Nikolai1]

Thanks for that de paradise! The two systems do look similar I agree. I'll check it out more, because they both chart a very interesting notion of maturity.

[C T]

Change is always possible. Even a mistreated, abused, angry and traumatised dog responds to genuine kindness, what more humans. Anger is stark, unrefined energy, and can be a useful tool to access awakening if one knows the method.

[Nikolai1]

Using life experiences to explain current presentation is of course valid. But all that thinking is familiar and always failed to satisfy me.

 

Why do some people survive severe trauma unscathed and why are some debilitated for life by seemingly minor setbacks? These questions are directly addressed by the concept of spiritual maturity. The spiritually mature person is more detached from their own ego and therefore sees trauma as less significant. It therefore harms them less.

 

There is nothing more traumatic than the belief in traumatic events.

 

But to say such a thing to a spiritually immature person is shocking and highly insensitive.

[C T]

http://awakeningtruth.org/blog/?p=362

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

3) Why are some people unable to look at themselves in the mirror and see that they are contributing to their own problems? Why are they always so keen to blame other people and the world rather than face the possibility that their own interpretations might be skewed?

 

 

 

I can only speak for myself, but my thoughts are:

 

BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A SHARED EXPERIENCE!!!

 

We ALLLLLLLL contribute to EACH OTHER'S problems! IT'S NEVER JUST THE PERSON THEMSELVES WHO HAS THE PROBLEM!

[C T]

 

 

 

I can only speak for myself, but my thoughts are:

 

BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A SHARED EXPERIENCE!!!

 

We ALLLLLLLL contribute to EACH OTHER'S problems! IT'S NEVER JUST THE PERSON THEMSELVES WHO HAS THE PROBLEM!

yup.

 

not that we contribute to other's problems, but we can and should see the common condition that all beings share in, and then empathise accordingly, not simply shrug the shoulders and go, "not my problem".

[Daeluin]

Some questions that have always puzzled me:

 

1) Why is it that some people never seem to learn from their mistakes? Over and over you see people choosing the same bad situations, partners, jobs and don’t get it that they have to move on try something else.

People begin life being exposed to patterns that will repeatedly shape who they are and how they cope with others and the world. Often we are exposed so much to the patterns and imbalances of our parents that we take on their patterns in our own ways.

 

A parent with codependency issues may influence similar codependency issues in their child, even if that child doesn't feel they are co-dependently tied in such a way, but somehow after they leave home and are on their own, have relationship after relationship where they yearn for the same type of co-dependency. It's a subtle thing, and certainly wouldn't seem related, so I doubt most people are able to make the connection... even as one relationship end and they draw themselves into another with the same dynamic.

 

Also, whatever of us that is waiting to reincarnate has a unique pattern, and cannot reincarnate without the proper elements and matching patterns at hand. So we reincarnate into a very precise mixture of family, place, and time. I suspect that the more in balance our patterns are when we die, the easier it is to find the necessary elements, and, conversely, the more extreme the patterns we create, the longer we might need to wait to find the right elements.

2) Why is that aging so often doesn’t lead to people becoming wiser, kinder and more compassionate? Why is it that some people are angry, bigoted and mindlessly causing trouble and hurt to those around them even into their seventh and eighth decades?

Some taoist theories believe we begin with pure unconditioned energy, and over time we condition it, and learn to express via the five phases. At first these five phases are expressions that are rooted in this vast source of unconditioned energy, but over time that source diminishes. When the five phases are balanced, they can create that unconditioned energy again. But most people's five phase expressions are not balanced, so when their unconditioned wealth becomes diminished, suddenly they begin to struggle in whatever unbalanced form their patterns exist in.

3) Why are some people unable to look at themselves in the mirror and see that they are contributing to their own problems? Why are they always so keen to blame other people and the world rather than face the possibility that their own interpretations might be skewed?

Finding five phase balance requires inner work and acceptance of one's issues... but many people are too afraid of their inner truths to "look in the mirror," and when life sends them lessons rather than accepting them, they project them back outwards, even though they'll only return again in less easy to deal with ways. The stronger their rejection of their own inner self, the more judgmental they seem to be regarding others.

 

Taoist practices like Qi Gong help one to rebalance one's energetic imbalances, and the deeper one goes with them the more one can learn to not only find balance, but to replenish the lost unconditioned energy and return to health as one had as a youth. Our energy is pretty similar to money in a bank account... can't just use it up more than you replenish it, or it'll empty out. But at the same time, when you take energy from your surroundings, it comes from somewhere else - it isn't unlimited. I've been taught that we're born with enough to accomplish our destinies, but that most people just use it up on whatever they want. So if we've wasted our energy and then use Qigong to replenish it from the environment, we should be careful to work towards being able to pay back those loans by the services we provide to our environment. When people say this energy is limitless, it's similar to those who say one person littering doesn't matter.

4) Why do some people some to grow fuller and richer in their characters, whereas as others seem the same at 25 as they do at 65.

People like to stick with what they think works for them. Even though we all know change is the only constant, people deeply fear change, especially inner change. The more people allow themselves to change the more they will grow and mature. But all too often you find people so attached for so long that even when they want to change there is just so much fixed momentum built up that it would take some serious effort and a major mindset change to produce any lasting effects.

What makes it more confusing is that so often these things do get better as people grow older. It seems that wisdom and spiritual maturity do grow as people age chronologically, but it is still the case that some 18 year olds are wiser and more skillful at living than others ever achieve.

Planetary cycles have a profound effect on maturity. Think of it like walking around a building for the first time. The first time around everything is new, but as soon as you reach the spot where you began, things become familiar.

 

Especially the Saturn cycle, which completes after around 30 years. Western Astrology says Saturn represents responsibility, time, structure, career, etc. Chinese Astrology / Taoism believes it is related to the phase of Earth, which is related to Integrity, sincerity, responsibility, so pretty much the same.

 

So when one makes their first complete walk around the building of responsibility, suddenly the lessons one is brought to regarding responsibility become familiar, and one goes through a deep maturation process and perhaps feels able to pick up the reigns of their life with more authority, having been taught the ropes, so to say.

 

For those who neglect their lessons of responsibility, when their Saturn Return comes they tend to feel uneasy and unwilling to start learning those same lessons they already rejected, and there is a tendency for some to enter into complete life changes - starting a new career, marriage, family are all common themes. Interestingly I've seen many a "hippy" turn "yuppy" after their Saturn Return commences and suddenly they feel a need to let go of ideals and settle down.

Despite all the many theories of personality, I have never come across one that addresses and explains this extremely important dimension on which we all vary. If people are angry, or anxious, it is usually explained vaguely through genetics or nurturance and is not addressed directly.

 

Well this week I came across a system of personality that directly addresses all the questions above.

 

http://www.michaelteachings.com/soul_age_index.html

 

No system of personality explains things ultimately. But what is so wonderful is that this one puts in central place a dimension that no other system acknowledges.

"Evolutionary Astrology" has a very similar take on stages of a soul's spiritual maturity.

http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/school/essence-of-ea/the-four-evolutionary-states

 

Hmmm... both Evolutionary Astrology and Taoism also believe heavily in cycles. For example, Venus moves faster than Mars. So if Venus is a little ahead of Mars when you were born, it is the beginning of a new Venus-Mars cycle, and implies the gravities of these planets will have a new-ish type of influence on this individual in relation to how one integrates the Venus-Mars energies as one. On the other hand if Mars is a little ahead of Venus when one is born, is the end of the cycle, and one would have a very mature and wise perspective relating to how Venus-Mars energies integrate with each other. On paper it sounds complicated, but really it is the same as how one might feel at the beginning of a new year of school - new classmates, teachers, classroom, subjects.... in contrast to the end of the school year, when one is graduating and moving into a new cycle.

Reading it has been so useful for me. I would love to hear some of your reactions!

 

Best wishes, Nikolai

Thanks for this topic, and best wishes to you as well!

Edited January 20, 2015 by Daeluin

[Spotless]

Many of us are trying to die in the worst sense of the word.

 

We spend our adult life seeking to enforce patterns that we "believe in" and fortify with automated tapes that constantly run in the background of our lives.

 

We see proclivities as necessary evils that are what makes us and strivings to improve ourselves are merely containments or the format we have come to know as ourself and fortify ourselves within.

 

Typically by 45 we are almost completely automated and assured within our death of rigidity and routine - even if our routine is chaos.

 

Part of humanities routine is to routinely see that which we "know" as the same - so we see our friends as we "know them" not as they are but always as we "knew them" and this is a gluing force onto all of our faces. It makes change nearly illegal and at the least upsetting and antisocial.

 

If you suddenly Awaken you are likely to be diagnosed poorly and if you are unfortunate enough to have this happen in your youth the chances of doctor Intervention in order to "cure" you are very high.

 

We make certain that our traditions dangle out carrots that are only made of gold and only for those superhumans that can do things a sane person should not undertake - such as the intentional suffering the path of Awakening requires. The path of perpetual indulgence and the selfrighteous license to freely express ourselves within the confines of our automated circular mental fortifications pretty much cements us aways from any real transformative life and relagates us to a happening.

 

We "happen" according to our proclivities and the proclivities of our culture. We are basically a dog breed that has a look and feel that we come here with and leave here with. We arrive as intergalactic space ships - roll about on the ground complaining and itching and then die - never having explored the cockpit or lifting off the ground let alone leaving the atmosphere.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Spotless

[wilfred]

broadly speaking is not 'maturity' a deeper sense of equanimity, people who are less full of themselves? content with who they are and what's going on around them, without being a hassle to others. the problem is conventional 'maturity' as society sees it is often clinging to a specific set of views about behaviour, morals, etc which is very much conditioned. even the idea of spiritual 'maturity' is inevitably clinging to a set of views. the way i see it is not a conventional progression but more a regression and recognition of what's already inside us. realization is a better term.

 

as to why people stay the same, it's just conditioning propping itself up. people are more likely to go backward, in a spiitual sense, with a lifetime of this stuff floating about and perpetuating itself. there's that saying 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks' you hear and it's a fallacy because we aren't dogs. it's more a don't want and an increased attachment to this thing due to the time we've invested into it.

Edited January 21, 2015 by wilfred

[Nikolai1]

There's a lot of talk about fear. The fear to grow, the fear to challenge, the fear to be different, the fear to be mature.

 

But fear doesn't ultimately explain things. It just begs the question: why do some people feel the fear? Why do others not feel the fear? Why do others feel the fear, but confront it anyway?

 

The classification of personality that I posted is extremely useful, but it is not explanatory - not ultimately.

 

Its usefulness, is that it provides with a pause for thought when we might have been tempted to judge a person negatively for their behaviour. It stops us from thinking 'oh, why can't you just grow up'.

 

It also makes you realise that if you want to be truly compassionate to everyone, even those infant souls who do nothing but selfishly cause trouble, we have to transcend what happens here on earth. If we stay earth bound then all we see is their negativity compared to other kinder people. But when we transcend earth we see that everyone is at different stages and that the small bud on the tree is as important and as significant as the apple it later becomes.

 

if we're stuck here on earth then all we're interested in is the apple, it is the only good that we perceive in the tree. The only function of the tree.

 

To think that we are here to be good and nice is actually quite an intolerant attitude if we start expecting it from others.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Nikolai1

[Spotless]

There's a lot of talk about fear. The fear to grow, the fear to challenge, the fear to be different, the fear to be mature.

 

But fear doesn't ultimately explain things. It just begs the question: why do some people feel the fear? Why do others not feel the fear? Why do others feel the fear, but confront it anyway?

 

The classification of personality that I posted is extremely useful, but it is not explanatory - not ultimately.

 

Its usefulness, is that it provides with a pause for thought when we might have been tempted to judge a person negatively for their behaviour. It stops us from thinking 'oh, why can't you just grow up'.

 

It also makes you realise that if you want to be truly compassionate to everyone, even those infant souls who do nothing but selfishly cause trouble, we have to transcend what happens here on earth. If we stay earth bound then all we see is their negativity compared to other kinder people. But when we transcend earth we see that everyone is at different stages and that the small bud on the tree is as important and as significant as the apple it later becomes.

 

if we're stuck here on earth then all we're interested in is the apple, it is the only good that we perceive in the tree. The only function of the tree.

 

To think that we are here to be good and nice is actually quite an intolerant attitude if we start expecting it from others.

 

Vanity is fear based, aggression is fear based, judgement fear based,jealousy is fear based - we think this or that person does not fear because they fear less but the amount of fear the most fearless person has would fill many barrels.

 

No one is stuck here on Earth - it is choice that has us here - and we are not as lowly as so many presume. What we have opted to do here is no small feat. Transcend the illusion and the Earth is no ball and chain.

 

Ponder "no thought" deeply and the fear is everywhere. Practice no thought and fear begins to fall away but the concept seems implausible. Find yourself in no thought and panic may very well replace it.

 

It is fortunate now that so many in the West are Awakening and we can hear them speak of their experience in Western mind and in a language that is not so lost in translation. A key feature in every Awakened individuals experience is the vanishing of fear. Fears they had no idea they carried as well as the many or few they were aware of.

 

 

 

[dust]