3bob Posted January 23, 2015 and even the golden-white-light-arc-torch that an indomitable being is can cry in compassion in the midst of helping a relatively illiterate mankind 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted January 23, 2015 <snip> Taoism is the supreme ultimate science of the energies of the world. <snip> Nicely stated, Taomeow. The ever-strengthening alignment between natural philosophy and the heart of Taoism was what started drawing me towards the latter more than thirty years ago. Modern science has been slowly discovering Taoism for more than a century, whether it realizes it or not. I have often described my personal growth as a process of unforgetting. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted January 23, 2015 and even the golden-white-light-arc-torch that an indomitable being is can cry in compassion in the midst of helping a relatively illiterate mankind Yes -- although if this is in reference to my library metaphor, an arc torch at a library, so as to help the illiterate, is pretty scary as metaphors go... but also pretty accurate, as our history goes. Compassion without comprehension is like mustard without beef... It can make one cry, sure thing... but... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted January 23, 2015 I like the relaxed approach to wisdom and spirituality in Daoist systems. The whole "not taking ourselves too seriously" resonates well with me. I am a practicing Hindu-Daoist (or should that be Daoist-Hindu? ) And I find lot of parallels between the Indian philosophies, especially Advaita Vedanta and Daoist philosophy. Also, my Tai chi lineage heavily relies on Lao Tzu and The Dao de Jing. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Yes -- although if this is in reference to my library metaphor, an arc torch at a library, so as to help the illiterate, is pretty scary as metaphors go... but also pretty accurate, as our history goes. Compassion without comprehension is like mustard without beef... It can make one cry, sure thing... but... "a golden-white-light-arc-torch that an indomitable being is" - already has full comprehension thus such a torch is directed with compassion as needed and not just as uncontrolled, white light fire burning everything before it. Edited January 23, 2015 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woodcarver Posted January 23, 2015 Why not Zoidberg? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted January 23, 2015 "a golden-white-light-arc-torch that an indomitable being is" - already has full comprehension thus such a torch is directed with compassion as needed and not just as uncontrolled, white light fire burning everything before it. OK. So here's one more reason it's taoism over buddhism for me: taoism is not one of the sun-worship-derived religions. Torches, white light, golden light, illumination, enlightenment, blaze of glory, lightning-throwing gods, burning bushes, and on and on... all of it is sun worship under different trademarks printed on different wrappers. Unfold the wrapper and you won't be able to tell buddhism from christianity from Ra veneration from Mitra cult. Too many burnings, immolations, incinerations... too many burned libraries for my taste. Many of them made of books, and many more, of trees... billions of trees, and trillions of dark, inconspicuous creatures that used to call them home before that glorious light torched them out of existence. Obviously out of compassion. Obviously for their own good. Me no like. Me like what puts those fires out. Taoism does -- with water. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted January 23, 2015 light so to speak as heaven is not your projection of a burning blaze of destructive glory, True and great Sage is ocean body of golden white light - and light in that sense is also life-force of all beings which does no harm, although those that would harm it will meet with fire if one wants to use that term... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kongming Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) OK. So here's one more reason it's taoism over buddhism for me: taoism is not one of the sun-worship-derived religions. Torches, white light, golden light, illumination, enlightenment, blaze of glory, lightning-throwing gods, burning bushes, and on and on... all of it is sun worship under different trademarks printed on different wrappers. Unfold the wrapper and you won't be able to tell buddhism from christianity from Ra veneration from Mitra cult. Too many burnings, immolations, incinerations... too many burned libraries for my taste. Many of them made of books, and many more, of trees... billions of trees, and trillions of dark, inconspicuous creatures that used to call them home before that glorious light torched them out of existence. Obviously out of compassion. Obviously for their own good. Me no like. Me like what puts those fires out. Taoism does -- with water. Yea, but to be fair all the so-called sun worshipers also understood the sun symbolically: its illuminating and life giving properties and its golden glory were taken to the visible symbol of the formless Supreme Sun beyond space-time, namely the Absolute, going by various names (Brahman, the One of Neoplatonism, the Godhead, etc.) Furthermore, Daoists speak of golden light, golden courts, golden flowers, golden immortals (or rather golden bodies), and of course gold was associated with yang like the sun. The internal alchemists wished to create a pure yang spirit, also referred to as the golden body mentioned earlier. Certain Daoists, such as the Shangqing sect, often used various visualizations of fire engulfing their entire bodies and the world, visualized entering the sun, etc. So we can't really say the Daoists different from the other spiritual traditions you mentioned in this regard. Edited January 24, 2015 by Kongming 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted January 23, 2015 I like it when mud squishes between my toes. And then someday I'm gonna be the mud squishing between someone else's toes. I hope they like it, too. 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted January 23, 2015 OK. So here's one more reason it's taoism over buddhism for me: taoism is not one of the sun-worship-derived religions. Torches, white light, golden light, illumination, enlightenment, blaze of glory, lightning-throwing gods, burning bushes, and on and on... all of it is sun worship under different trademarks printed on different wrappers. Unfold the wrapper and you won't be able to tell buddhism from christianity from Ra veneration from Mitra cult. Too many burnings, immolations, incinerations... too many burned libraries for my taste. Many of them made of books, and many more, of trees... billions of trees, and trillions of dark, inconspicuous creatures that used to call them home before that glorious light torched them out of existence. Obviously out of compassion. Obviously for their own good. Me no like. Me like what puts those fires out. Taoism does -- with water. That's interesting ... and has already evoked some response. Having just read a lot about this I would like to comment that the worship of light/sun/fire is actually Vedic. The primary rite of the Vedic religion was the Agni fire sacrifice where often many animals were offered up to the sacred pyre in the hope of eternal life with brahma. The Buddha actually was totally opposed to all this and subverted much of the vedic terms and imagery converting it into something quite other. He used Vedic terms like karma etc. because the people he was teaching people versed in that tradition. He never used the term enlightenment only awakening and didn't particularly use the image of light and only fire as a bad thing. I accept there are now schools of Buddhism which like to present the Buddha as a light, shiny kind of thing (like Pure Land Buddhism for instance) but to characterise Buddha as part of the fire lineage is I think pushing it a little. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted January 24, 2015 OK. So here's one more reason it's taoism over buddhism for me: taoism is not one of the sun-worship-derived religions. It's because they had 10 suns... and whose going to out do that ? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted January 24, 2015 actually all things, all beings, and all realms are based on and or woven of "light" /energy and the sound that comes with it - regardless of the names of Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Abrahamic, Shinto, Pagan, Shamanistic, Atheist, etc... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daeluin Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) I've read that taoism starts with water, Buddhism starts with fire. And I appreciate how in taoism water is deferred to as the base which supports and balances the extreme of fire. Without balancing heaven AND earth completely, can one truly transcend spiritual immortality and return to tao? I wonder how Buddhism accomplishes this. Edit - I don't intend to suggest that Buddhism does not work with "water." I don't know. But really I don't need to do anything more than follow where lead and learn the lessons I am brought before. Knowledge is endless, right and wrong are traps. Edited January 26, 2015 by Daeluin 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted January 24, 2015 "Gathering the Light" from the Taoist book The Secret of the Golden Flower, translated by C. G. Jung andRichard Wilhelm 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 24, 2015 Actually, I think water is the best symbolism because all life on earth is water-based. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted January 24, 2015 Isn't life on Earth the result of the interaction between fire and water, animated by the pull of the moon? Remove any one of the three from the formula and the whole process would come to a halt. I think. And as I understand it, first there was the sun, then came the moon, and then the water. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted January 24, 2015 The Golden Flower is Quanzhen, and thus heavily influenced by Buddhist spiritualism. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted January 24, 2015 I've had an affinity for the taijitu / yinyang symbol since I was a child... wasn't it chosen as a Taoist symbol precisely because it represents everything? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ish Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Well, whether you call yourself a Taoist or a Buddhist, we are all human and thus have water and fire inside ourselves. So moreso it depends on you! Edited January 24, 2015 by Ish 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 24, 2015 Isn't life on Earth the result of the interaction between fire and water, animated by the pull of the moon? Remove any one of the three from the formula and the whole process would come to a halt. I think. And as I understand it, first there was the sun, then came the moon, and then the water. To my knowledge, science is still working on this. Commonly accepted now is the our moon is a result of a planet about the size of Mars colliding with early earth and the debris collecting to form our moon. The source of water is still being debated. But regardless, some of it came from asteroids and comets. Water, carbon, other chemicals, and energy (maybe fire) allow for life to be created. And yes, first there was the sun (other things needed something to rotate around) then the other objects of the solar system (I forget the proper word) came to be as a result of gravity. Most life gets its energy from the sun but then there are the extremophiles that get their energy from other sources, all, or nearly all from earth's internal heat. But all require water. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted January 24, 2015 The Golden Flower is Quanzhen, and thus heavily influenced by Buddhist spiritualism. Its still Taoist, nonetheless 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted January 24, 2015 I've had an affinity for the taijitu / yinyang symbol since I was a child... wasn't it chosen as a Taoist symbol precisely because it represents everything? that would be this 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) To me, though, once we start dividing it into 'the 5 Elements' or any other system of classification, it stops representing everything. As an abstract, it can be light and dark / fire and water / dry and wet / hot and cold / expanded and contracted / big and small / tall and short / stick and hole / good and bad / ... etc ... but it is both all and none of these 'things'. Edited January 24, 2015 by dustybeijing 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted January 24, 2015 To me, though, once we start dividing it into 'the 5 Elements' or any other system of classification, it stops representing everything. As an abstract, it can be light and dark / fire and water / dry and wet / hot and cold / expanded and contracted / big and small / tall and short / stick and hole / good and bad / ... etc ... but it is both all and none of these 'things'. but the Wuxing/5E comes before the Taiji, believe it or not. First are the five states, and then they dynamically generate the yin/yang thoruhg their interaction (not the best word for but I have to go...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
