Throwing Out The Subconscious or Unconscious Mind

[Stosh]

Its so rare, to get in one of those delicious Aha!s

Im expecting rebuttal is in store.

One really wants the perfect Aha.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Stosh

[Nungali]

Its so rare, to get in one of those delicious Aha!s

 

Im expecting rebuttal is in store.

 

One really wants the perfect Aha.

 

 

 

 ......

 

 

<that seemed to have done the job >

Edited March 30, 2015 by Nungali

[DreamBliss]

I have changed my mind about beliefs:

https://blisswriter.wordpress.com/2015/03/28/beliefs-get-in-the-way/

[Marblehead]

I have changed my mind about beliefs:

You have changed your mind about almost everything.  Hehehe.  (I have too so it's really not all that big a thing, IMO.)

[9th]

If this is the path you wish to take, the first step is to let go of the concept or idea of the subconscious mind. Doesn't matter if it is really there are not. Just adopt a "don't know" or nonchalant attitude about it.

 

One thing you might want to ask yourself is: what keeps your heart beating?  Are you consciously making it pump blood through the rest of your body?  How about your lungs?  Are you concentrating on extracting oxygen and nitrogen from air molecules?

 

Just some thoughts to help you with a "new" concept. 

[C T]

One thing you might want to ask yourself is: what keeps your heart beating?  Are you consciously making it pump blood through the rest of your body?  How about your lungs?  Are you concentrating on extracting oxygen and nitrogen from air molecules?

 

Just some thoughts to help you with a "new" concept. 

Im just wondering here if animals have a subconscious mind or not...  

(if im not mistaken you are proposing that the subconscious is like an unseen controller of bodily functions)

[9th]

Im just wondering here if animals have a subconscious mind or not...  

(if im not mistaken you are proposing that the subconscious is like an unseen controller of bodily functions)

 

I am proposing that bodily functions such as the workings of the internal organs and autonomic nervous system can be considered unconscious.  

[Michael Sternbach]

I am proposing that bodily functions such as the workings of the internal organs and autonomic nervous system can be considered unconscious.  

 

Indeed. The body is constantly performing a multitude of processes without requiring our attention. In many cases, they  are connected to cerebral activity that we are not aware of. Thanks God for the Unconscious!

[Michael Sternbach]

I have changed my mind about beliefs:

https://blisswriter.wordpress.com/2015/03/28/beliefs-get-in-the-way/

 

So, now you believe in not believing anything?

 

It is indeed a philosophically interesting stand you are taking. It brings to mind the Buddhist teaching of removing all mental obstructions to the unfiltered experience of Reality.

 

Somehow paradoxically, it also brings the mind the attitude of the Chaos Magician who temporarily adopts whatever belief system promises to be useful in a particular context. - Someone with no beliefs can choose any belief at will.

 

Personally, I don't think I could or wanted to be entirely without beliefs, however, I believe in open-ended belief systems that allow for revisions, extensions and surprises... (All puns intended, I believe...)

Edited March 30, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[Michael Sternbach]

You have changed your mind about almost everything.  Hehehe.  (I have too so it's really not all that big a thing, IMO.)

 

Marblehead, by choosing not to believe anything, DreamBliss is actually approaching your own attitude.

 

The only thing still lacking for him to become a really devout non-believer would be a few decades in the Army, I guess.

[Marblehead]

Im just wondering here if animals have a subconscious mind or not...  

(if im not mistaken you are proposing that the subconscious is like an unseen controller of bodily functions)

Ever watch a dog or cat while it is dreaming?  That is their subconscious mind.

[Marblehead]

Marblehead, by choosing not to believe anything, DreamBliss is actually approaching your own attitude.

 

The only thing still lacking for him to become a really devout non-believer would be a few decades in the Army, I guess.

Yeah, that's why I keep talking with him.  He has potential, he just needs to find it.

 

I don't know though, todays Army isn't what it used to be when I was in.

[C T]

Ever watch a dog or cat while it is dreaming?  That is their subconscious mind.

Do you know if slugs dream too, MH? 

[Marblehead]

Do you know if slugs dream too, MH? 

That was so funny for me.  I have called some people I have known slugs.  And yes, they dream.

 

As to the real slugs, I kind of doubt it.  I'm not even sure they actually have a brain rather than just interconnected nervous systems.

[C T]

That was so funny for me.  I have called some people I have known slugs.  And yes, they dream.

 

As to the real slugs, I kind of doubt it.  I'm not even sure they actually have a brain rather than just interconnected nervous systems.

At our age we are bound to have met one or two i guess. 

 

Assuming slugs have a very simple nervous system, what do you think maintains that system? 

 

Well, fish have brains and appear to be more evolved than slugs.. do you think fish have dreams? 

[Nungali]

Do you know if slugs dream too, MH? 

 

 

Or androids ..... of electric sheep ? 

[Nungali]

Actually, I just threw out my belief in slugs ... they dont exist any more for me .

 

 

(So as you see Dreambliss hasnt really changed at all .... he has just extended his original idea;

 

Start with throwing out a belief in the unconscious .... poof !      gorn ! 

 

Now .... throw out belief in everything else  (again, easily and instantly done, just by a declaration it is so, and again after a reading of some new age book or 'philosopher'.

 

Beliefs ?   .....   ppof !     gorn too !

 

At this rate, if DB decided not to believe in himself anymore .... he may well transcend the illusion of existence ....  

 

 

overnight !    

 

 

As for me .... I will wallow around a bit longer down here in the illusion 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2015 by Nungali

[Marblehead]

At our age we are bound to have met one or two i guess. 

 

Assuming slugs have a very simple nervous system, what do you think maintains that system? 

 

Well, fish have brains and appear to be more evolved than slugs.. do you think fish have dreams? 

Life maintains life.  I can't go deeper than that.  Many can, and would likely willingly share their knowledge with others.  But then we will always end up with the question:  Why does life exist?  The answers all would be wild ass guesses.

 

But chemicals in the brain and nervous system support themselves.

 

Never thought about the fish though.  I think likely their brain isn't developed well enough for the to have dreams.  It's mostly stored instinctual behavior.

[Marblehead]

Or androids ..... of electric sheep ? 

Well, I know an electric bull will give some women a wet dream.

[Marblehead]

 

 

 

I have to drive for eight hours to get one of those scenes.

[DreamBliss]

I am not sure that throwing out all beliefs is possible or even desirable. I will have to re-read my blog post, make sure that is not what I said.

 

I think it is more about letting go of beliefs that no longer serve or support you. I am working on this concept of beliefs based on fear VS beliefs based on love.

 

It would be the ones based on fear that should be let go. The ones based on love would serve and support you. The idea is that beliefs based on love would be easier to remain unattached to.

 

The main thing, it seems to be, is to remain unattached and unidentified with our beliefs. It is when we become attached and identified with them that we feel the need to defend them

 

Beliefs limit us to what we know, or what we think we know. They keep us in the realm of the known. In this, and our defense of them, they become a cage around us.

 

I am not sure I want to have no beliefs, believing in nothing. I just want to be free of beliefs. To be unattached and unidentified with them, to be able to pick them up and let them go at will.

 

Humanity collectively believes in things like gravity and the subconscious mind. What would happen if, all of a sudden, humanity did not collectively believe in these things?

Edited March 31, 2015 by DreamBliss

[DreamBliss]

One thing you might want to ask yourself is: what keeps your heart beating?  Are you consciously making it pump blood through the rest of your body?  How about your lungs?  Are you concentrating on extracting oxygen and nitrogen from air molecules?

 

Just some thoughts to help you with a "new" concept. 

 

In my opinion, not the subconscious or unconscious mind. There is some system in place in all physical forms that allows the form to function, even when the consciousness has temporarily left, as when people leave their bodies in an NDE OBE.

 

There is no mind, subconscious or otherwise, left in the body when your consciousness leaves it. The body goes on functioning, even without a mind directly connected to it.

 

That is why a creature that, in our perception, has limited or no mind is able to function. There is no subconscious mind an an amoeba, yet it functions just fine without it.

[DreamBliss]

I have to drive for eight hours to get one of those scenes.

 

Well, you could always come to my house to stay, if you don't mind helping me work on the property. We have the Washougal River and plenty of that scenery less than 40 minutes away!

[Nungali]

But how long will it take him to get to your place ?   

 

be careful Marblehead .....     you could end up as 'indentured' labour    ( ' You dont get your false teeth back until you finish the gardening ! "  )

[Nungali]

When one studies the nature of belief, one realises there are different forms of 'belief', some are necessary and some may not be.

 

Its good to maintain a belief in gravity when rock climbing , walking close to cliffs, etc . 

 

and yes, some beliefs can certainly hinder us!   Most certainly !    But beliefs are intimately connected into the unconscious. Hence, if one realises the nature of a certain class of belief, belief can be used as a 'magical tool ' , especially in things that work utilising unconscious forces, like a ritual or ceremony. 

 

To get involved with the belief without awareness of the process is more like religion. 

 

 

Preliminary studies in Comparative Religion and Divinity can include looking at questions such as; what is belief? What is the nature of belief?  What is knowledge? How is knowledge acquired? Even; to what extent is it possible for a given subject or entity to be known.

 

How do we form beliefs? Psychologists study belief formation and the relationship between beliefs and actions. Beliefs form in a variety of ways:

 

We tend to internalise the beliefs of the people around us during childhood.  Political beliefs depend most strongly on the political beliefs most common in the community where we live. Most individuals believe the religion they were taught in childhood.

 

People may adopt the beliefs of a charismatic leader, even if those beliefs fly in the face of all previous beliefs, and produce actions that are clearly not in their own self-interest. Is belief voluntary? Rational individuals need to reconcile their direct reality with any said belief.

 

Physical trauma, especially to the head, can radically alter a person's beliefs. So what does that say about our own beliefs ? 

 

However, even educated people, well aware of the process by which beliefs form, still strongly cling to their beliefs, and act on those beliefs sometimes, even against their own self-interest.

 

I remember years ago seeing a TV documentary on Scientology. The son of the founder of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard, was being interviewed and he was asked the question; “Why did the members go along with such crazy stuff, some of them were  well educated and included professionals such as lawyers, doctors, engineers and people who were quiet intelligent. Hubbard junior’s answer was, “They were intellectually smart but they were not emotionally smart.” – I find that food for thought and a key dynamic in the process we are dealing with here. How strongly are our beliefs connected to our emotions?

 

 In Anna Rowley's Leadership Theory, she states "If you want your beliefs to change. It's proof that you are keeping your eyes open, living fully, and welcoming everything that the world and people around you can teach you." This means that peoples' beliefs should evolve as they gain new experiences.

 

To an extent we could link the purpose of belief with The purpose of religion in a personal and social context. 

 

" It seems apparent that one thing religion or belief helps us do is deal with problems of human life that are significant, persistent, and intolerable. One important way in which religious beliefs accomplish this is by providing a set of ideas about how and why the world is put together that allows people to accommodate anxieties and deal with misfortune." - Anthropologists John Monoghan and Peter Just .

 

Different types and levels and belief   (dont throw out the baby with the bathwater)  -  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief