Throwing Out The Subconscious or Unconscious Mind

[Yasjua]

I remember now. Thank you.

[DreamBliss]

"This little fox retreats to his burrow,

To lick his wounds and heal."

Edited March 1, 2015 by DreamBliss

[Nungali]

 

I watched The Secret long ago, soon after it was published, but I don't remember it very well. I found it rather basic, anyway.

 

But the OP's references are:

• Jane Roberts/Seth - in particular, The Nature of Personal Reality. Now, that is an interesting book. Psychologically and philosophically very sophisticated. In fact so sophisticated that, when a patient of mine once tried to read it on my recommendation, it went right over her head. I am convinced that you could make sense out of it, though. If you read it and then still want to debate about it with me, be my guest...
• Esther Hicks/Abraham. I am not really familiar with them, other than having watched a speech as I mentioned above. That one did have some good thoughts in it, and I remember it better than The Secret, anyway.

 

 

Details (with references ) about the Hicks are in the other LoA thread.    I will take your word (and summaries )  for it re, Jane Roberts. 

 

The DVD ... here is a memory jog

 

*** warning -  Nungali type sarcasm -  warning ***

 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Nungali

[freeform]

Seth's The Nature of Personal Reality (one of the OP's references) emphasizes clearing of the mind from detrimental beliefs and emotions throughout its text and provides several methods to that end. So does also Shakti Gawain's Creative Visualization that I mentioned above.

 

I think what you have encountered so far are rather superficial representatives of LoA (and I have little doubt that there are plenty of them).

 

My own personal investigation into it has been admittedly superficial (as I found it immediately distasteful). However I've met quite a few followers of this work, including two teachers. None of them had much of an idea of how to clear anything beyond 'the beliefs that are holding you back from manifesting what you want'.

 

One of the teachers I mentioned - a lovely lady who I got on with very well - received a transmission from one of my teachers. There is usually a two-fold effect - incredible bliss, heart opening, strong flowing energy etc. followed closely by the surfacing of all the inner emotional gunk, the 're-wiring' of cognitive patterns that keep the false identity together along with physical 'detoxing'.

 

Long story short, she had mini mental breakdown. She told me candidly how she suddenly saw the underlying motivations for all of her desires and manifestations. She saw how she was driven by greed, lust and the desire to hold power over people whilst completely fooling herself by packaging these desires in wonderful sounding 'spiritual' finery. She was particularly distraught that she had taught many hundreds of people to do just that.

 

She wasn't a 'bad person' - she was just like me or you. Everyone has this inside of them, and it drives our motivations - especially when you focus on desires.

 

I am not unfamiliar with the manifestation 'effect'. Just as Yasuja explained in his post. When I started spiritual work I received countless blessings and many serendipitous synchronicities. It's like the universe was conspiring to have me succeed. But I never asked for it. Never asked for anything specific. I was also made to face extremely difficult situations - both out in the world and internally. I would certainly have never asked for these - even though the result of going through these hardships has always been an important lesson for me.

 

If I was to direct this 'manifestation effect' consciously, I would make a terrible job of it. It would be a morbid caricature of a magical life. It would stop any real growth. And would trap me in the world of desires.

 

We may differ in our understanding of what a spiritual way is (and certainly there is more than one). There are lots of people seeking detachment .

 

We may indeed differ in our understanding of spirituality, however 'detachment' is far from what I seek. As I said I'm on the Daoist path - which is a path of deep embodiment. Material success is not the opposite of detachment, and material success has nothing to do with spirituality. I don't judge it as being a good or bad thing in the least. It just is. You can be spiritual and be materially successful or you could be penniless and deeply spiritual.

 

However, contriving spirituality and the effects and 'powers' inherent in it for the acquisition of wealth is a disturbing trend in the americanised new-age movement. LoA as it's actually practiced by most people typifies this trend.

 

I'm not carrying on this discussion because I want to be 'right'. I would not bother taking time out of training and living my life and put effort into this discussion if I didn't see this work as actively damaging for people - rather than just a waste of time.

[DreamBliss]

The wounded fox crawls out of his den...

 
In regards to the video Nungali shared share there are a huge number of obvious problems:
 
1. The men, in their skit about finding a parking space, obviously did not truly believe they would find one. I have actually been in a similar situation. Not seeking a particular place. But certain there would be a place, at busy locations where it is normally hard to find one. Nothing like the city, as I said I don't live in a big city.
 
I have noticed an obvious difference, between when I am driving around a parking lot, getting angry there is no parking space, usually having thoughts like, "I never find a space!" and entering a parking lot, knowing I will find a space, completely relaxed, no tension, no doubts, a space will be there.
 
I never find a desired space when I am in that first state. I always, without exception find one when I am in the second state. I have even been able to use it on my dad, driving us around, to his utter surprise, although I have never told him what I am doing. I just tell him there will be a space, sort of interrupting the usual angry, frustrated thought pattern and he always finds one.
 
Whether it is my dad driving or myself, I always hit the road asking Source to bless and be with the other drivers on the road, to bless and be with us as we drive. When I drive it is with full awareness. There is never some psychic premonition of, "Turn left, pull in here" disregarding my surroundings. That is just sheer idiocy.
 
2. There is a whole issue around asking for money or wealth. It goes back to mindset. In your asking for money or jewelry, are you asking out of a lack or limitation mindset? Because if you are you have already closed yourself off to getting what you are asking for.
 
More and more it is becoming apparent to me that there has to be a letting go, an openness around money. Any clutching at it or clinging to it keeps it away from you.
 
Also, in my limited experience, a focus is needed. When I wanted to manifest the tickets to see Wayne Dyer I did not ask for and focus on the $175.00 I needed. Maybe that would have worked, but if it did, it probably would have been far slower than what I did focus on.
 
Instead I focused on the event itself, on seeing this teacher I respect, on my desire to hear from him. I focused on going to the event, in other words, not on getting tickets to it or getting the money to go. I set an intention to go even if I had to stand outside, and I set a date by which I would pay for my ticket (I keep saying tickets, not sure why.) I manifested the tickets over a month before the date I intended. It happened fast.
 
So in this skit with the jewelry, what was their focus, their mindset, their motivation? Once again, did they truly believe they could manifest the jewelry, or, as the skit seems to portray, did they go in not really believing it will work?
 
3. None of the things I have read have ever said to take ownership of something owned by someone else. That is just plain idiocy again. If you want a car, you ask for that make, model and year of car. You believe you will receive a car. You claim ownership of one of the cars from that make, model year. But this is a mental thing, not a physical thing.
 
You don't go down the street, see a car parked there, and claim that as yours. If it is for sale you can believe you will receive this car, and you can claim this car, in your mind only, as yours. Visualize yourself coming to the house, cash in hand, going up to the house, knocking on the door, paying the owner, getting the keys, opening the door, getting it, removing the sign and driving away. But you don't stand there, think you own it and then try to take it.
 
It might work to focus on a particular car, but what you will find is more effective is to think more generally. You want a car. You want an electric car. Maybe you want a Tesla (I know I do.) You want the money to pay for its insurance and upkeep. You might use a picture of a Tesla as a focus. But the key is to not be attached to your focus!
 
This non-attachment part is hard to explain and something I need to write more about. Initially when I earned the money to get tickets to see Wayne Dyer, I had just enough, maybe a few bucks more. But I spent some of that money. So now I didn't have enough. I was too attached to it. There has to be a willingness to let the money go, even if it is just enough for whatever you want to get.
 
What I mean by that is you have this money in cash, but you must put it in the bank so you can purchase tickets online. While you have that money in cash in your pocket, if you are afraid of loosing it or spending it, immediately no more money comes to you. That is all you get. If you need to spend it, if something  happens and some of that money is spent, you're screwed, because you are closed off and can get no more.
 
When I realized this I stopped worrying about spending it. Doesn't even matter if its something worth spending the money on or not. It is irrelevant. That non-attachment to the money is what's important. When I stopped being attached to it, the rest of the money I needed to get the ticket came to me.
 
Now in my case I had to work for this money. But you don't want to be attached to some idea that you always have to work for it anymore than you would be attached to some idea that you can sit around and it will come to you.
 
You have to flow along the natural course of your life, and when action is required, you take it, when stillness is required, you are still. You remain unattached to how the money gets to you.
 
You make your request (ASK), you have faith it is provided (BELIEVE) and then you remain open in the natural flow of your life. You don't try to make anything happen. You don't set limits on what can happen, you don't outline how it will happen. You shut your mouth after the asking and you have faith in the provision. You remain aware and open, because the provision could come from anywhere or anything. That is the last step (RECEIVE.)
 
I like to see this as a budded flower in its natural environment, outside the reach of man. It springs up, and if it had an awareness, a knowing, it would be that sunlight and rain are provided. It develops a flower bud, and at some point it opens to the sun. It doesn't specify where the sun will be. It doesn't try to control the sun. It opens expecting the sun. That expectancy an be thought of as a combination of belief, faith and knowing.
 
If you have that form of belief, you quickly manifest what you ask for. If you have that same openness and receiving of the flower, you quickly manifest what you ask for. The asking the flower does is born from the natural flow of its life. If a flower asks for anything, it is good soil, which is already provided, sunlight and water.
 
We may call this what the flower needs. But as humans we can ask for things we want, born of the natural flow of our own life. When you ask in this effortless, rowing downstream way, where you can ask then take your hands off of it, you will quickly manifest what you ask for.
 
This is what people just don't get, what I am trying to explain in the book I am writing. You can't go into these teachings trying to make things happen. This is not about positive thinking. Keeping some image in your mind to the exclusion of all else. You will wear yourself out because you are paddling upstream.
 
You also can't try to figure out how it will be provided. Dwelling on how it will come to you, throwing effort and work into making it come to you. You can anticipate and look forward to receiving what you have asked for, but that's it. The more you try to make it happen the more you fail step 3 (RECEIVE.)
 
It must be effortless, you must be allowing, open and receptive. You don't sweat the details. You leave that to your Source. That is how you step out in faith. If you can not step out in faith, then you have no belief, so you fail step 2 (BELIEVE.)
 
What about step 1 (ASK?) You may not even get that far. Abraham uses the idea of vibration. If your vibration and that which you wish to manifest are different, you can not manifest it. To use other terms, if your mindset is not right, you will not manifest what it is you want. There is resistance, whatever example you prefer to use. You are at odds with yourself.
 
You say you want a shiny new electric car, a Tesla. But deep inside you have beliefs, or thoughts such as, “Yeah right, this is such utter bullshit!” or “Sure, the Universe is like Santa Claus, and I stopped believing in him a long time ago” or “I really don't deserve a new car. Look how I treat my current car!”
 
If you are not aware and conscious of your beliefs, feelings and thoughts, manifesting anything will be difficult if not impossible. So you need a book like Tolle's, “Power of Now” or something that will help you start to observe and be aware of what you are thinking. Unfortunately it seems some of the LoA materials do not go much into this.
 
If you have any doubts, you lack belief, if you lack belief, you can ask, but will not receive. So you will say the teachings do not work. If you are a Christian you will say that God does not provide. Or that you didn't deserve it. Or that it was not God's will. Boy did I ever use those excuses a lot as a Christian!
 
4. Something that Abraham makes very clear (not sure about Seth) is you have to deal with how you feel, right now, in this moment. It is impossible to make yourself feel in some way that you do not currently feel. If you are depressed maybe you can imagine what happiness looks like. But you can't will yourself into feeling happy. Even if you manage it, you are rowing upstream again. The more resistance, the slower things manifest.
 
So you can't all of a sudden feel wealthy if you have been poor all your life. This is what I struggle with. What does being wealthy feel like? How do I make myself feel like that? Another one is success. Feel successful! Uh... How exactly? If you have never been successful, how can you feel that way?
 
This ties back in with beliefs. Your beliefs are thoughts you thought over and over again, they have become beliefs or habitual thought patterns. A sort of track laid down in your mind about certain things. Your feelings show you what you believe. They are what Abraham calls your, “Emotional Guidance System.” If you are feeling ecstatic, there is no belief in you anywhere that contradicts that feeling. There are only beliefs which support it.
 
So you work at the level of thought because thoughts direct your feelings. You may have a lack, limitation mindset. You can't go from there to a mindset of abundance and limitlessness. But you can find a thought that makes you feel slightly more abundant and free of limitations.
 
You can think that thought for a while, and other thoughts like it will come up, and you can think those for awhile. Then you can move on to the next abundant and limitation-free thought. Slowly working your way, thought by thought, across the rails until you are thinking in terms of abundance and limitlessness.
 
You always have to start with where you are. How you feel is where you are. If you feel like shit you have shitty thoughts. If you feel like pure love you have loving thoughts. If you feel like pure love it is easy to feel pure abundance. If you feel like shit the best you can feel is an abundance of shit. If you feel like shit you have no idea what pure love feels like. You may have a memory of experiencing this. But likely you have no clue.
 
So you think thoughts that are less and less shitty. You adopt beliefs that empower you more and more, make you feel better and better. You throw out the beliefs that have made you feel shitty. You adopt these new ones that make you feel better. In time you get to that place of feeling pure love!
 
I have been asked, in essence, as to why I am not well. Afterall, all I have to do is manifest my health, right? Wrong! How can I feel energetic, healthy and well when my current feelings are anything but these? When I really feel weak, in poor health and sickly? I have to find a thought that makes me feel a little better.
 
This is exactly what I have been doing. I am, literally, healing myself, right now, in this moment. Each day, moment by moment, getting a little better. I am not Jesus though. I am unable, at this time, to touch myself and be instantly healed. Nobody anywhere said that manifestation is instantaneous!
 
This is all a part of step 1 (ASK.) If you feel shitty and yet ask for a brand new Tesla car, your shitty thoughts do not match the mindset or vibration needed for the Tesla. The Telsa is about as opposite of shitty as pure love. So you fail your request.
 
Then you come to a forum like this, see people talking about LoA, and post something like, “It's garbage” or “It makes me sick” or “It doesn't work” or “It's not spiritual.” You pat yourself on the back, proud of how spiritually minded you are, and how free you are of the flesh and all its desires. Of how you have risen above such petty concerns. Of how you are perfectly happy to bike or walk or run to work. You stand there on your pedestal looking down your nose at the rest of us.
 
Or you make a video like these guys did, using humor to disguise their fears and lack of belief. Mocking something they haven't even tried to understand, from what I could see. It is the lowest form of intelligence.
 
But I say you are a fool. That denying any aspect of the physical is foolish. Because you are not loving and accepting yourself as you are. You are having a physical life. You came here for a physical experience. The focus is obviously physical.
 
If you wanted to live a spiritual life you wouldn't even be here in a physical body! Since you have a physical body and live in a physical world there is nothing wrong when wanting the best physical experience possible. In fact I would say pursuing spirituality at the expense of the physical is wrong.
 
Better to embrace your physical needs and wants. Better to embrace your physical form and the physical world of which it is a part. You came here to experience physicality, not spirituality. So be as spiritual in your physical form as possible. But looking to overcome the flesh, or deny it, or anything like that is foolish. It makes you no better than a Catholic whipping himself to be rid of sexual desires.
 
If you want to skip the physical part of your existence, find a gun or a knife and get it over with! You can go right to the spiritual, if you think that is more important. I will not criticize or judge you. But I think you will be far happier embracing what is, instead of trying to overcome it.
 
What is includes the fact you have a physical body and are having a physical experience in a physical world. It is not your enemy unless you make it so. So embrace it, and by all means, grow spiritually, but not at the expense of your physical experience.
 
What is also includes the fact that in living this physical experience you will have desires. You will have needs. There are no rewards for denying yourself or suffering. There are no rewards in the afterlife for becoming enlightened or super spiritual in your physical life.
 
So you may as well enjoy your physical life experience, and if part of that enjoyment requires jewelry, a parking space or a Tesla, then the LoA teachings, properly applyed and understood, is a way to manifest these.

 

Using the homeless and refugees as an example... What about going to one of these places, gathering evryone together, and get them working on what they collectively and individually want for a living situation? What life experience do they collectively and individually want? That is step 1.

 

Now work on their collective and individual beliefs. All that is needed here is awarness if they have beliefs or thoughts that are counter to their desire. Help them become aware of these, help them to choose the next best feeling thought. Everyone should be supporting everyone else in this. The more people working together, the quicker the manifestation. Step 2.

 

Some time may need to be spent on Step 2. They all know what they want. They all are working on the closest belief or feeling they can get to concerning their request. But it may take time until everyone's mindset or vibration matches their desire. Afterall, they are still living in a camp, or under a bridge. That is what is, and it must be acknowledged, accepted and embraced in order to move beyond it.

 

Now everyone is in harmony with what they want. Most have packed things up, because that is an action in the natural flow of their lives. They can't go right to the apartments, houses or whatever they have envisioned, not yet. But they can clean up the camp, pack up what is not needed, get ready to move. They can take any action that comes into the natural flow of their lives to do. This is step 3.

 

Then the manifestation occurs. It will probably be completely unexpected. All these people will find themselves moving into better, more desirable circumstances. This could occur several times before the final manifestation of what they asked for, because if someone asked for a mansion (nothing wrong with that) it is a long way from living in a camp or under a bridge. So there may be multiple moves or steps. Belief and faith must be maintained until the final manifestation.

 

In time each and every person in the camp or under the bridge is living the life they envisioned. But the giving out of blankets and food alone would not solve the problem. That would only sustain it.

 

Only in a course of action, such as what I detailed here, will the circumstances change. Only for these people, the root cause of the social symptom of poverty must be addressed before poverty goes away. That can be done by getting together with a hundred or so other people, who want to address this, collectively using the same steps towards manifesting the healing of the cause.
 

“The little fox returns to his den,

To rest and heal again.”

Edited March 1, 2015 by DreamBliss

[Nungali]

So .... thats how we solve the refugee world crisis ?   Simple !

 

They just need to get organised, pack up (and clean up that nasty mess they made) and move on .  With some LoA 'teacher' directing them of course.

 

This is why people make fun ( like in that video) of the concept.

[Nungali]

My own personal investigation into it has been admittedly superficial (as I found it immediately distasteful). However I've met quite a few followers of this work, including two teachers. None of them had much of an idea of how to clear anything beyond 'the beliefs that are holding you back from manifesting what you want'.

 

My protests relate to some results I have seen. In the field, where people have tried to live and work together and bring up families etc. (on a commune).

 

What a ridiculous experiment. I wont go on about it in detail, but lives families and children were badly effected and disrupted by many of the things you mention below.

 

Just declaring things are okay and the power of good thoughts will change things and not addressing issues and changes needed and going about them.

 

There are records I have read where the commune members are doing it hard, all the kids sleeping in a rat infested out building, one guy in an old chicken run and not getting paid for their work, not having any facilities (over 30 people using one domestic fridge, etc), and having to pay for the privileged of 'fulfilling the dream' while the ' spiritual leaders' and channellers admonished the workers for not having 'a consciousness of abundance' . Eventually these 'leaders' left and the people living there have been trying to clear up the mess they left behind ever since ( after 3 failed attempts to get rid of the people that actually did all the good and lasting work).

 

 

 

 

 

One of the teachers I mentioned - a lovely lady who I got on with very well - received a transmission from one of my teachers. There is usually a two-fold effect - incredible bliss, heart opening, strong flowing energy etc. followed closely by the surfacing of all the inner emotional gunk, the 're-wiring' of cognitive patterns that keep the false identity together along with physical 'detoxing'.

 

Long story short, she had mini mental breakdown. She told me candidly how she suddenly saw the underlying motivations for all of her desires and manifestations. She saw how she was driven by greed, lust and the desire to hold power over people whilst completely fooling herself by packaging these desires in wonderful sounding 'spiritual' finery. She was particularly distraught that she had taught many hundreds of people to do just that.

 

She wasn't a 'bad person' - she was just like me or you. Everyone has this inside of them, and it drives our motivations - especially when you focus on desires.

 

I am not unfamiliar with the manifestation 'effect'. Just as Yasuja explained in his post. When I started spiritual work I received countless blessings and many serendipitous synchronicities. It's like the universe was conspiring to have me succeed. But I never asked for it. Never asked for anything specific. I was also made to face extremely difficult situations - both out in the world and internally. I would certainly have never asked for these - even though the result of going through these hardships has always been an important lesson for me.

 

If I was to direct this 'manifestation effect' consciously, I would make a terrible job of it. It would be a morbid caricature of a magical life. It would stop any real growth. And would trap me in the world of desires.

 

Agreed, now mix that up with a refusal to acknowledge the unconscious forces in one's life ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We may indeed differ in our understanding of spirituality, however 'detachment' is far from what I seek. As I said I'm on the Daoist path - which is a path of deep embodiment. Material success is not the opposite of detachment, and material success has nothing to do with spirituality. I don't judge it as being a good or bad thing in the least. It just is. You can be spiritual and be materially successful or you could be penniless and deeply spiritual.

 

However, contriving spirituality and the effects and 'powers' inherent in it for the acquisition of wealth is a disturbing trend in the americanised new-age movement. LoA as it's actually practiced by most people typifies this trend.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not carrying on this discussion because I want to be 'right'. I would not bother taking time out of training and living my life and put effort into this discussion if I didn't see this work as actively damaging for people - rather than just a waste of time.

 

 

 

Same here ... I am not protesting just on the view that I think differently about this.

 

I have seen what it leads to , how it damage a whole community and disrupted families and project crap onto good people that did the hard yards while others sat back and blamed them for their own dreams not being able to manifest because of their mental attitude. Interestingly, as soon as those 'teachers' took off, and people got down to being practical and realistic, the place really started to take off.

 

Now the 'teachers' are out there trying to make money on the New Age lecture circuit .... how to improve your business by positive thought ..... one of them sells 'crystal diamond light' .

 

But people still turn up at the community, sprouting the old BS and telling the people that did make it happen what 'they need to do'. Sometimes, for some crazy reason, people listen to them, and try bits of it again, then the same shit happens, ground is lost, and then it or they run off, leaving their mess behind ( they nearly always leave physical rubbish and environmental damage behind them ) and then its ' two steps forward ' again.

 

Tedious .... extremely tedious !

 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Nungali

[4bsolute]

Where is the difference between subconscious and unconscious?

 

And can you experience the unconscious mind? If so, how would you explain it?

 

We can already say that "we do not lose consciousness, at any point" the question is to what degree of it changing we can still perceive as consciousness.

 

For surely 95% of current humanity would this mean that when every they lie down to sleep (their physical body) they experience the unconscious mind. And can say so because they have not experienced their body anymore.

 

Okay and what with the still tiny rest of the conscious mind who has experienced and continues to experience more and more subtle bodies?

 

Do you understand where I am coming from? To God-realized individuals there is no unconscious mind. To those who have not been there consciously, surely all else is unconscious.

 

 

We can easily say that the more of ones light has penetrated all layers of one self, at one point, all is pure consciousness (again). Falling unconscious feels like darkness. Void of conscious perception.

Edited March 17, 2015 by 4bsolute

[Nungali]

Where is the difference between subconscious and unconscious?

 

Un is not and sub is under. The Unconscious is a psychological term developed by Freud and further developed by Jung ;

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscious_mind

 

Subconscious is a modern misnomer and could mean 'that which is just below the surface' - of consciousness; perhaps we could call it the 'preconscious' ? So, as a 'made up pop term' I suppose it can mean whatever you want it to mean. It is a is a term "never used in psychoanalytic writings". There is no the subconscious.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subconscious

 

It would seem one can be partly consciously aware of sub conscious processes, but not, by definition of the unconscious processes ... although we are aware of 'the unconscious. mind' itself. 

 

And can you experience the unconscious mind? If so, how would you explain it?

 

 

What? Explain the experience or the unconscious mind ? The definition is above and there are many writings on it on the internet. Perhaps a relevant observation here is that many say the language of the unconscious is symbolism and its enactment is myth.

 

One of its functions could be the 'sorting ground' for the forces in the psyche; the Id  and Superego and the delivery of the results (in choice and behaviour decisions)  to the conscious ego.

 

 

We can already say that "we do not lose consciousness, at any point" the question is to what degree of it changing we can still perceive as consciousness.

 

Can we ? Why ? It seems obvious that people can loose consciousness. I dont know why you assert we do not ? ? ?

 

Then the issue of changing consciousness - thats something totally different ... your question seems obscure, not sure what you mean?

 

 

 

For surely 95% of current humanity would this mean that when every they lie down to sleep (their physical body) they experience the unconscious mind. And can say so because they have not experienced their body anymore.

 

I think that is even more obscure. Why is consciousness dependant on not experiencing their body (whatever that means ? ) ? Surely consciousness is all about being aware of being conscious .... self awareness. And why would 'unconscious' mean 'physical body sleep' ? When we are asleep and dream, actions, reactions, choices, hopes and fears, morals, etc can all apply, sometimes we make choices and sometimes we are 'impelled' to do things in dreams. Thats a type of consciousness -  we can make a decision in a dream.

 

 

 

Okay and what with the still tiny rest of the conscious mind who has experienced and continues to experience more and more subtle bodies?

 

What about it ? A conscious awareness of subtle bodies , whatever you mean by that, doesnt negate the operations of the unconscious.

 

 

Do you understand where I am coming from?

 

Not really, you seem confused and your wording is obscure.

 

 

To God-realized individuals there is no unconscious mind.

 

 

 

To God-realised individuals there is an unconscious mind.

 

see ... its easy anyone can just write a statement . It doesnt make a point though.

 

 

 

To those who have not been there consciously, surely all else is unconscious.

 

Ummm ... I suppose anything one is not 'conscious of' - one is 'unconscious off' .

 

Are you still referring to 'God-realised ' ... if you are going to use that term along with 'unconscious' ... the better term might be 'superego' .

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego

 

 

 

We can easily say that the more of ones light has penetrated all layers of one self, at one point, all is pure consciousness (again). Falling unconscious feels like darkness. Void of conscious perception.

 

yes, you can penetrate parts of the unconscious, but then, by definition, those parts are not the unconscious any more .

 

Say you are having a behavioural problem , you cant ride in an elevator. You dont know why, you just cant, and if you try you get actual physical symptoms that stop you. You go to a psychologist and they help you to see into ( shine light, if you like), unconscious motivations and impelling forces. Now the reasons and influences are conscious and maybe you can now find a way to resolve the issue and allow you to travel in an elevator. But the fact of being aware of that 'node' in the unconscious has made that part conscious. Not that you have become aware of the whole of the unconscious mind.

 

Most of the time your breathing is unconscious, unless you do breathing exercises, pranayama or the system is stressed.

 

Falling into unconscious ( that means you still are holding a vestige of consciousness) isnt always darkness IMO ... I have had a bright flash and stars ... and thats it. Unconsciousness itself isnt 'feels like' ... it doesnt have a feeling or awareness, yes, it is void of conscious perception so when you are in it, you cant have a feeling about it ... although you may feel darkness as you approach it. .

 

There is a difference though between ' unconsciousness' and 'the unconscious' , maybe thats what some of the confusion is about ( I probably contributed to that )

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconsciousness

 

Edited March 17, 2015 by Nungali

[DreamBliss]

I may end up repeating myself and not writing things very clearly, as I am extremely tired right now.
 

When I started on my own spiritual path I learned that I prefer to keep things simple. I figured all this hocus-pocus and special effects stuff in what is typically lumped under the term, "New Age" just gets in the way of the spiritual meat of a subject. In fact, I think I would say now that anything truly spiritual at all is simple.
 

Now I can't say I don't still complicate things. I am changing, growing and learning. But in the spirit of keeping things simple, as I may have said before, I am simply tossing out anything that does not empower me.
 

So that is what it comes down to for me. Having all these head shrinks with their pieces of paper from various colleges tell me I have something called a subconscious  or unconscious mind that has been programmed by my parents and other authority figures when I was a child does not empower me. Nor does the idea that I can be programmed subliminally empower me. Also telling me I have to do things like self-hypnosis or therapy to access these hidden or submerged parts of my mind is just adding complication.
 

You can't scientifically prove the existence of this thing called the subconscious or unconscious mind. You can't measure it or weight it. You can't interact with it using any of your senses. It fails to be proven by any scientific test. There is only this brain activity that goes on when we are hypnotized or asleep and we give it a definition and labels to refer to it by. But in the end you can't prove to me that I have some hidden or submerged part of my mind anymore than you can prove to me God exists.
 

Since there is no proof of its existence, and believing in its existence is not empowering anyway, I have opted to throw it out. Do I really want to give others power over me through some hard to access part of my mind by my belief in it? Of course not. Screw them and screw all "higher education!" I need it like I need another hole in my head. Actually if I believed in it that would be like adding another hole in my head!
 

I agree more with the idea that the mind is how my Higher Self, call it what you will, connects to my brain. It is not the brain or located in it. It's more like the brain is a key that access this much larger, imperceptible world. My awareness or consciousness is just where I am currently focused.
 

Right now my consciousness is focused in a physical form, but theoretically, I could project that wherever the hell I wish. So I could go into my mind, I could leave my body entirely, I could project it into some bug on the ceiling and look at things from there.
 

The point is everything is accessible by my awareness or consciousness, including every corner of my mind, if it could be said to have physical features like corners, which it likely does not. And yes, I can't prove a mind exists either, at least not scientifically. Some external place where thoughts come from that my brain picks up. But this is simpler, for me, than adding the extra complication of various levels of the mind.
 

It is just more empowering for me to believe that I can not be programmed, and have not been programmed, that programming, subliminal or otherwise, is just not possible. There is instead thinking, and thoughts that are thunk over and over again, which become beliefs, and some of that I may become identified with, so it becomes a part of my ego, another aspect of myself I can't scientifically prove exists.
 

The point is I could have been thinking a certain way all my life, but with awareness of my thoughts, with the focusing of my consciousness on them, I can stop focusing on them, I can replace them with more empowering, higher vibration thoughts, and change, ultimately, the life I experience.
 

In other words I have lived with people worried about bills and the lack of money all my life. I could continue to live that same way, under the oppressive thumb of bills, lack, limitation. Or I could become aware of my beliefs here, the thoughts of which those beliefs are comprised, and using my awareness I could change those thoughts, which is exactly what I am doing.
 

I have lived the life experience my parents live. I can continue to live that way, or I can choose to live differently. I have found, in my own personal experience, that money comes much easier to me when I am not worried about it. That in spending it, without fear, more comes to me. I have seen this happen over and over again, especially starting just last year and continuing today.
 

I watch my parents, so much money comes in, they get together something like $1500.00 a month, maybe a 1/3 of which goes to my brother, yet every month it seems like they never have enough. They could have $15,000 a month and, with the way they currently think, it still wouldn't be enough!
 

But more and more, though I earn exactly $0.00 a month, I find I have exactly the amount of money I need, and sometimes even a little extra. I have no employment, no job, no income. I have no intention of getting a job or going to college. I think it's a big steaming pile of crap. I also have no intention of living under a bridge.
 

Instead I have every intention to have a lot of money, and I mean a lot, so I can enjoy all the fine things in life. So I can enjoy my physical life experience while I am here. So I can support myself and my future family. But there is no way I can do that if I think like my parents do, or if I adopt this belief in hidden parts of the mind.

 

If anyone here wants to bind themselves with those chains, that's your choice. That's your path, I am not going to criticize or judge you. But this lemming has stopped running toward the cliff and is instead standing off to the side, on a rock with a good view, while the rest of you continue on your fateful journey. But there's plenty of room here for anyone else who wants to join me. Whatever you decide, good luck!

 

That's really all I have to say about that.

 

Blessings and love!

[Michael Sternbach]

Subconscious is a modern misnomer and could mean 'that which is just below the surface' - of consciousness; perhaps we could call it the 'preconscious' ?

Only insofar it is about to become conscious.

 

Perhaps a relevant observation here is that many say the language of the unconscious is symbolism and its enactment is myth.

Which led C.G. Jung to his "discovery" of the Archetypes. They pertain to the collective unconscious and to the (inner or higher) self. I seriously miss any mention of them on this "unconscious" thread so far. Despite the reference to channelled material. Where was it channelled from? From spirits external to the channeller? Seth says no; while he insists on having an existence independent from Jane Roberts, her psyche had a link to Seth in inner or subjective space. In certain terms, Seth is Jane's future self, as he says; thus her higher self or evolutionary goal.

 

Again, with sources like Seth and Abraham, Archetypes play a major role as their names imply which are associated with mythological figures.

 

One of its functions could be the 'sorting ground' for the forces in the psyche; the Id  and Superego and the delivery of the results (in choice and behaviour decisions)  to the conscious ego.

 

In Freudian psychology, it is the ego which is the sorting ground for what it receives from both the Id and the super-ego, always trying to reconcile the two.

 

yes, you can penetrate parts of the unconscious, but then, by definition, those parts are not the unconscious any more .

Say you are having a behavioural problem , you cant ride in an elevator. You dont know why, you just cant, and if you try you get actual physical symptoms that stop you. You go to a psychologist and they help you to see into ( shine light, if you like), unconscious motivations and impelling forces. Now the reasons and influences are conscious and maybe you can now find a way to resolve the issue and allow you to travel in an elevator. But the fact of being aware of that 'node' in the unconscious has made that part conscious. Not that you have become aware of the whole of the unconscious mind.

From my view, here lies the common ground between your view and DreamBliss'. There is a subconscious/unconscious but none of its contents are inaccessible to the conscious mind per say.

 

 

Falling into unconscious ( that means you still are holding a vestige of consciousness) isnt always darkness IMO ... I have had a bright flash and stars ... and thats it. Unconsciousness itself isnt 'feels like' ... it doesnt have a feeling or awareness, yes, it is void of conscious perception so when you are in it, you cant have a feeling about it ... although you may feel darkness as you approach it.

The conscious mind is functioning in a linear manner whereas many of the processes of the unconscious are due to non-linear parallel computing. That's why they are not visible to the conscious mind directly.

 

So that is what it comes down to for me. Having all these head shrinks with their pieces of paper from various colleges tell me I have something called a subconscious  or unconscious mind that has been programmed by my parents and other authority figures when I was a child does not empower me.

But people do get programmed all the time,starting in childhood with their parents and teachers indoctrinating them with beliefs generally shared by their society. This is the formation of the super-ego which is partially conscious, and partially unconscious. Many take these beliefs for granted for the rest of their life without ever seeing them for what they are, or questioning them.

 

And that is the potentially problematic part; not the understanding that you may be carrying programs within your psyche that you are not (yet) aware of. I don't think admitting this weakens the position of your conscious self in any way; rather, not seeing it makes it more susceptible to unconscious influences.

 

By the way, Seth in The Nature of Personal Reality agrees that some of our beliefs were adopted in childhood from our educators. What matters is that these are not closed off from the conscious self; they can be made conscious and discarded where appropriate.

 

Nor does the idea that I can be programmed subliminally empower me.

Again, I think it can indeed serve to empower you. While I agree that we are potentially susceptible to suggestions, these are either accepted or rejected based on our belief system - which in turn is open to our introspection by the conscious mind.

 

Also telling me I have to do things like self-hypnosis or therapy to access these hidden or submerged parts of my mind is just adding complication.

Self-hypnosis can be of great value and is suggested by Seth in The Nature of Personal Reality.

 

As far as therapy is concerned, I agree that you don't need to undergo a lengthy psychoanalysis or something like that in order to effect change in your psyche. A practice of introspective exploration is highly recommendable though.

 

I agree more with the idea that the mind is how my Higher Self, call it what you will, connects to my brain. It is not the brain or located in it. It's more like the brain is a key that access this much larger, imperceptible world. My awareness or consciousness is just where I am currently focused.

Yes, the brain is some kind of receiver. Like other organs, it connects to and is "informed" by subtle parts of our greater anatomy such as the mental body.

 

The point is I could have been thinking a certain way all my life, but with awareness of my thoughts, with the focusing of my consciousness on them, I can stop focusing on them, I can replace them with more empowering, higher vibration thoughts, and change, ultimately, the life I experience.

You can indeed. That's what Seth is emphasizing - and not the negation of parts of the parts of the psyche unknown to the waking self.

 

In other words I have lived with people worried about bills and the lack of money all my life. I could continue to live that same way, under the oppressive thumb of bills, lack, limitation. Or I could become aware of my beliefs here, the thoughts of which those beliefs are comprised, and using my awareness I could change those thoughts, which is exactly what I am doing.

You need to become aware of those thoughts exactly because initially you are not - thus they are unconscious.

 

I have lived the life experience my parents live. I can continue to live that way, or I can choose to live differently. I have found, in my own personal experience, that money comes much easier to me when I am not worried about it. That in spending it, without fear, more comes to me. I have seen this happen over and over again, especially starting just last year and continuing today.

That's a very good observation. And a typical Sagittarian one, may I say.

 

I watch my parents, so much money comes in, they get together something like $1500.00 a month, maybe a 1/3 of which goes to my brother, yet every month it seems like they never have enough. They could have $15,000 a month and, with the way they currently think, it still wouldn't be enough!

Right, our external experience and our interpretation thereof always seems to "confirm" our beliefs. With a "poverty mind set", you will always feel poor, even if you were Uncle Scrooge.

 

But more and more, though I earn exactly $0.00 a month, I find I have exactly the amount of money I need, and sometimes even a little extra. I have no employment, no job, no income. I have no intention of getting a job or going to college. I think it's a big steaming pile of crap. I also have no intention of living under a bridge.

 

Instead I have every intention to have a lot of money, and I mean a lot, so I can enjoy all the fine things in life. So I can enjoy my physical life experience while I am here. So I can support myself and my future family. But there is no way I can do that if I think like my parents do, or if I adopt this belief in hidden parts of the mind.

I am fully with you here.

 

In conclusion, I would like to say that I appreciate the emphasis on the power of the conscious self in the intelligent LoA literature but that it can lead to downplaying the unconscious or subconscious mind which is dangerous (as it doesn't appreciate being downplayed).

 

Best wishes,

Michael

[Marblehead]

In conclusion, I would like to say that I appreciate the emphasis on the power of the conscious self in the intelligent LoA literature but that it can lead to downplaying the unconscious or subconscious mind which is dangerous (as it doesn't appreciate being downplayed).

 

Best wishes,

Michael

Therein lies the problem.  The unconscious mind is doing things we are mostly totally unconscious of.  (Pardon the pun.)

 

Our dreams tell us bit and pieces of what is in there but these are most times too fragmented to make any sense of.

 

But I am willing to suggest that our unconscious is the source of all our spontaneous and intuitive thoughts.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Marblehead

[Michael Sternbach]

Therein lies the problem.  The unconscious mind is doing things we are mostly totally unconscious of.  (Pardon the pun.)

 

Our dreams tell us bit and pieces of what is in there but these are most times too fragmented to make any sense of.

 

But I am willing to suggest that our unconscious is the source of all our spontaneous and intuitive thoughts.

 

Another aspect is that behaviour once thoroughly learned becomes unconscious and automatic. This can be of advantage, of course. Thus a trained martial artist doesn't have to think about how to move all the parts of his body in order to perform a certain technique; he (or she) can apply it spontaneously and intuitively.

 

But of course, we also learn and automatize a lot of stuff (especially, but not exclusively, in childhood) that we would do well to unlearn later. So that we find back to our original self (as not only Daoism teaches).

 

The problem is, how do we get access to those program files? Psychoanalysts say, don't mess with your software, you need us for that. Seth (and like minded spirits) say, there is nothing to keep you from stepping wherever you like inside your psyche (if you are not too afraid).

[Marblehead]

 

The problem is, how do we get access to those program files? Psychoanalysts say, don't mess with your software, you need us for that. Seth (and like minded spirits) say, there is nothing to keep you from stepping wherever you like inside your psyche (if you are not too afraid).

I have no answers.  Only questions.

[Nungali]

I may end up repeating myself and not writing things very clearly, as I am extremely tired right now.

 

You have said that a few times. How about writing a post and saying what you mean when you are in a good alert and clear state ?

 

 

 

 

When I started on my own spiritual path I learned that I prefer to keep things simple. I figured all this hocus-pocus and special effects stuff in what is typically lumped under the term, "New Age" just gets in the way of the spiritual meat of a subject. In fact, I think I would say now that anything truly spiritual at all is simple.

 

Thats a good start.

 

 

 

Now I can't say I don't still complicate things. I am changing, growing and learning. But in the spirit of keeping things simple, as I may have said before, I am simply tossing out anything that does not empower me.

 

LIke dirty bathwater .... like the 'baby'. ? 

 

 

 

So that is what it comes down to for me. Having all these head shrinks with their pieces of paper from various colleges tell me I have something called a subconscious  or unconscious mind that has been programmed by my parents and other authority figures when I was a child does not empower me. Nor does the idea that I can be programmed subliminally empower me. Also telling me I have to do things like self-hypnosis or therapy to access these hidden or submerged parts of my mind is just adding complication.

 

 

... and just what do yuo think you are doing working this Law of Attraction stuff ?   Its all to do with the idea that you can be programjmed ... even you wrote about that and the complicated process you do it by.

 

You wont have the 'professionals' tell you what their research has led to, but you will still follow new age teachers like Abraham, even though you said 'hocus-pocus new age' gets in the way of spirituality. Also you seem to be equating authority figures to your parents and extend your delayed protests and lack of yet achieving individuation on them and any in your mind. associates ( like people with an educational qualification).

 

Yep ... you can ignore all that as it doesnt feel like it immediately and instantly 'empower you' ... but it will, in the long run, if you can look into it.

 

 

 

You can't scientifically prove the existence of this thing called the subconscious or unconscious mind. You can't measure it or weight it. You can't interact with it using any of your senses. It fails to be proven by any scientific test.

 

Aren't you interested in science ... all of a sudden  

 

There is only this brain activity that goes on when we are hypnotized or asleep and we give it a definition and labels to refer to it by. But in the end you can't prove to me that I have some hidden or submerged part of my mind anymore than you can prove to me God exists.

 

Since there is no proof of its existence, and believing in its existence is not empowering anyway, I have opted to throw it out. Do I really want to give others power over me through some hard to access part of my mind by my belief in it? Of course not. Screw them and screw all "higher education!" I need it like I need another hole in my head. Actually if I believed in it that would be like adding another hole in my head!

 

Screw all higher education eh ?    And you still believe you are thinking clearly and not being influenced by any deep psychological unconscious process  (now I am wondering who it was that urged you to get some higher education  .... parents, by any chance ? 

 

 

 

I agree more with the idea that the mind is how my Higher Self, call it what you will, connects to my brain. It is not the brain or located in it. It's more like the brain is a key that access this much larger, imperceptible world. My awareness or consciousness is just where I am currently focused.

 

Right now my consciousness is focused in a physical form, but theoretically, I could project that wherever the hell I wish. So I could go into my mind, I could leave my body entirely, I could project it into some bug on the ceiling and look at things from there.

 

No ... that is what is called  ' the power of the imagination'. 

 

 

 

The point is everything is accessible by my awareness or consciousness, including every corner of my mind, if it could be said to have physical features like corners, which it likely does not.

 

NO, you imagined you could be a fly and now you imagine you can dispel the unconscious by imagining you can see it .

 

And yes, I can't prove a mind exists either, at least not scientifically. Some external place where thoughts come from that my brain picks up. But this is simpler, for me, than adding the extra complication of various levels of the mind.

 

It is just more empowering for me to believe that I can not be programmed, and have not been programmed, that programming, subliminal or otherwise, is just not possible.

 

No ..... you only think it is empowering as it is an easy path... and you are sick of people telling you how you have to do the hard yards. 

 

Empowering is not just blind refusal and trying to justify that.    Understanding how the unconscious works and using it, thats empowering. Knowledge about anything should empower you.

 

Its beginning to sound like a rave I heard off a kid that had reading difficulties ... he was great at words though, he had heaps of words to 'justify; why it wasnt necessary or needed for him to be able to read.  (Actually, he got forced to learn to read at school, he is doing great now, he changed his whole life from a book he read, he was a couch potato, cone pulling, computer games freak that was flaccid and unhealthy, he read a book that changed his life, his diet, his health, stated lifting weights, studying sports therapy and now has a profession. 

 

 

There is instead thinking, and thoughts that are thunk over and over again, which become beliefs, and some of that I may become identified with, so it becomes a part of my ego, another aspect of myself I can't scientifically prove exists.

 

The point is I could have been thinking a certain way all my life, but with awareness of my thoughts, with the focusing of my consciousness on them, I can stop focusing on them, I can replace them with more empowering, higher vibration thoughts, and change, ultimately, the life I experience.

 

Thats a good approach, but having an unconscious doesnt mean you cant do that.  Its just being aware of any potentially unknown 'mental subversions' or 'dissident' energies'  within the unconscious will help with that.

 

 

 

 

In other words I have lived with people worried about bills and the lack of money all my life. I could continue to live that same way, under the oppressive thumb of bills, lack, limitation. Or I could become aware of my beliefs here, the thoughts of which those beliefs are comprised, and using my awareness I could change those thoughts, which is exactly what I am doing.

 

Good, but it is all in the consciousness.   You deny the unconscious so any unconscious content doesnt exist.  Even though you have been around that energy and "  lived with people worried about bills and the lack of money all my life" ... that will have an impact.  But not on you as you have denied the faculty within yourself  

 

You know ... denial isnt the best way to deal with some things ?

 

 

I have lived the life experience my parents live. I can continue to live that way, or I can choose to live differently. I have found, in my own personal experience, that money comes much easier to me when I am not worried about it. That in spending it, without fear, more comes to me. I have seen this happen over and over again, especially starting just last year and continuing today.

 

Well then . get out on your own for God's sake !    Stop verbalising and waffling and complaining about how they are restricting you ...   do something about it ! 

 

 

 

I watch my parents, so much money comes in, they get together something like $1500.00 a month, maybe a 1/3 of which goes to my brother, yet every month it seems like they never have enough. They could have $15,000 a month and, with the way they currently think, it still wouldn't be enough!

 

But more and more, though I earn exactly $0.00 a month, I find I have exactly the amount of money I need, and sometimes even a little extra. I have no employment, no job, no income. I have no intention of getting a job or going to college. I think it's a big steaming pile of crap. I also have no intention of living under a bridge.

 

And I had no intention of living beyond 40 ... but here I am !  

 

Curious that you have no income ... yet you have income .... even 'finding' money is money coming in.

 

I dont think you are being entirely honest about your situation.   You get shelter and food dont you ?  I wonder who pays for that and where that money comes from ... do you 'find' money every week and pay grandma for the shopping and offer some rent  ? 

 

Or dont the people that support you count in the financial story you tell?

 

Or is it that you just keep finding money  (people must drop a lot of it in your area  ) ?

 

Instead I have every intention to have a lot of money, and I mean a lot, so I can enjoy all the fine things in life. So I can enjoy my physical life experience while I am here. So I can support myself and my future family. But there is no way I can do that if I think like my parents do, or if I adopt this belief in hidden parts of the mind.

 

Then git rid of it consciously , not by a process of denying it exists !

 

 

If anyone here wants to bind themselves with those chains, that's your choice. That's your path, I am not going to criticize or judge you. But this lemming has stopped running toward the cliff and is instead standing off to the side, on a rock with a good view, while the rest of you continue on your fateful journey. But there's plenty of room here for anyone else who wants to join me. Whatever you decide, good luck!

 

That's really all I have to say about that.

 

Blessings and love!

 

 

And an ending of how you have become superior and all the rest doomed.  That is the ending for many of a philosophical or religious discussion isnt it. 

 

Seriously ... I hope you do get clear on this.

 

And get out of the family home and start some individuation work,for God;s sake!    Put what you believe into practice instead of staying in an environment that seems the opposite of what you want to do and bitching about it  (unless they are actually supporting you with rent and food  and you {or your unconscious    } doesnt think it can make it in the big wide world out there and is stopping you from putting your beliefs into real practice - where life will give you the appropriate feedback. )

[C T]

I respect your patience, Nungali 

[Nungali]

Only insofar it is about to become conscious.

 

 

 

 

Which led C.G. Jung to his "discovery" of the Archetypes. They pertain to the collective unconscious and to the (inner or higher) self. I seriously miss any mention of them on this "unconscious" thread so far.

 

Well,  thats because they dont exist ... if they reside in the unconscious, and we can just remove that with a declaration .... poof!  ... gone ! 

 

 

In Freudian psychology, it is the ego which is the sorting ground for what it receives from both the Id and the super-ego, always trying to reconcile the two.

 

I disagree with Freud psychology then.  IT can be. as you stated,  but in many cases of psychological 'aberration'  the ego is unable to reconcile, they can be impelled by the forces of the ID and little regulation is available (without some therapy) .

 

Anyway, thats a simplified outline, the rest might be a little too deep for a thread that postulates one can just get rid of the whole concept by denial of its existence. 

 

From my view, here lies the common ground between your view and DreamBliss'. There is a subconscious/unconscious but none of its contents are inaccessible to the conscious mind per say.

 

If I said that, I should change it. I believe they are accessible ;   dream, symbolism and related imagery, therapy, etc. 

 

The conscious mind is functioning in a linear manner whereas many of the processes of the unconscious are due to non-linear parallel computing. That's why they are not visible to the conscious mind directly.

 

 

But people do get programmed all the time,starting in childhood with their parents and teachers indoctrinating them with beliefs generally shared by their society. This is the formation of the super-ego which is partially conscious, and partially unconscious. Many take these beliefs for granted for the rest of their life without ever seeing them for what they are, or questioning them.

 

 

 

 

 

And that is the potentially problematic part; not the understanding that you may be carrying programs within your psyche that you are not (yet) aware of. I don't think admitting this weakens the position of your conscious self in any way; rather, not seeing it makes it more susceptible to unconscious influences.

 

 

 

 

By the way, Seth in The Nature of Personal Reality agrees that some of our beliefs were adopted in childhood from our educators. What matters is that these are not closed off from the conscious self; they can be made conscious and discarded where appropriate.

 

 

Again, I think it can indeed serve to empower you. While I agree that we are potentially susceptible to suggestions, these are either accepted or rejected based on our belief system - which in turn is open to our introspection by the conscious mind.

 

 

Self-hypnosis can be of great value and is suggested by Seth in The Nature of Personal Reality.

 

As far as therapy is concerned, I agree that you don't need to undergo a lengthy psychoanalysis or something like that in order to effect change in your psyche. A practice of introspective exploration is highly recommendable though.

 

 

Yes, the brain is some kind of receiver. Like other organs, it connects to and is "informed" by subtle parts of our greater anatomy such as the mental body.

 

 

You can indeed. That's what Seth is emphasizing - and not the negation of parts of the parts of the psyche unknown to the waking self.

 

 

You need to become aware of those thoughts exactly because initially you are not - thus they are unconscious.

 

 

That's a very good observation. And a typical Sagittarian one, may I say.

 

 

Right, our external experience and our interpretation thereof always seems to "confirm" our beliefs. With a "poverty mind set", you will always feel poor, even if you were Uncle Scrooge.

 

 

I am fully with you here.

 

In conclusion, I would like to say that I appreciate the emphasis on the power of the conscious self in the intelligent LoA literature but that it can lead to downplaying the unconscious or subconscious mind which is dangerous (as it doesn't appreciate being downplayed).

 

Best wishes,

Michael

 

Good advice, it would do well to follow it.

 

All I would add is in regard to this : 

 

" downplaying the unconscious or subconscious mind which is dangerous (as it doesn't appreciate being downplayed). "

 

Indeed it does not !   And if anyone thought a kid that isnt getting enough attention is a problem ... just wait until this puppy wakes up !

 

( Patrick Harpur has great writings on this 'ignored' or denied concept of the 'soul' {with an intimately linked function in the unconscious) and what can happen when its processes are not acknowledged )

[Nungali]

I respect your patience, Nungali 

 

I like working with kids  

[C T]

I like working with kids  

marvellous! 

[Stosh]

The mind looks very different looking at it from the inside vs outside.

 

I wonder how one could prove the validity of either view against the other.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Stosh

[Nungali]

'it' ? 

[freeform]

I like working with kids  

 

Me too - unless the kids are actually middle aged and live with their parents, without a job, manifesting their 'abundance', but unable to manifest themselves out of being extremely tired and unfocused.

[Michael Sternbach]

freeform,

 

You be nice to DreamBliss!

[freeform]

freeform,

 

You be nice to DreamBliss!

 

I have been nice to DreamBliss. I devoted a lot of valuable time to discussions - which is the greatest resource one can share on a forum. I've not been offensive or anything - I do realise that I've insensitively pointed out the truth of the matter with no sugar to coat it and I realise that that's not something that's appreciated in LoA circles.

 

I actually don't think there's anything inherently wrong with living with your parents and not working - but it's inappropriate to suggest that this lifestyle is made possible by LoA teachings rather than the kindness and hard work of his relatives.

[Michael Sternbach]

I have been nice to DreamBliss. I devoted a lot of valuable time to discussions - which is the greatest resource one can share on a forum.

 

Not least, worthwhile for you if you enjoy spreading your opinions over the Internet. If you are not having fun - don't do it!

 

I've not been offensive or anything - I do realise that I've insensitively pointed out the truth of the matter with no sugar to coat it and I realise that that's not something that's appreciated in LoA circles. I actually don't think there's anything inherently wrong with living with your parents and not working - but it's inappropriate to suggest that this lifestyle is made possible by LoA teachings rather than the kindness and hard wuableork of his relatives.

 

If you had read DreamBliss' posts more carefully, you would know that he is living with his handicapped grandmum while helping her. In fact, he is doing pretty hard work for relatives and aquaintances all the time, including things like a move of 100 miles or so that took six full days to finish and which was rewarded by a mere 200 bucks. But since that was the amount he had requested from the Universe for a certain purpose, he is happy that he got the opportunity to make it.

 

His circumstances are about to change and he is now getting ready to make his life away from his family. It's fine that he endeavours to apply the LoA principles the way they worked for him so far. As spiritually conscious people, we should offer him our support rather than uninformed mockery, imo.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Michael Sternbach