TCM on excessive yawning/sighing?

[Owledge]

I've gathered from a 5-elements chart that deep sighing is associated with the kidneys, which are associated with fear.

Now I'm trying to examine my condition based on TCM. I'm dealing with some rough stuff lately, more than usual that is, so maybe it's related. Since two days ago or so, I yawn quite a lot, but it's kinda mixed with sighing. I'd get am impulse to breathe deeply, and most of the times that (which I couldn't even clearly distinguish whether it's yawning or sighing) attempts to breathe deeply into the belly, but fails. Only sometimes I manage to breathe it down into the belly. I always try, but it just doesn't work. It probably works better if I don't try consciously.

 

Is my body/psyche trying to get rid of something? Is this a symptom of cleansing or an active harmful process?

My waking cycle has always been very flexible in recent years, but it's still unusual that I get out of bed and after 6 hours awake I am damn unmotivated, have the blues and (attempt to) yawn/deep-breathe usually several times a minute.

 

I've had a blood and urine test lately and ultrasonic examination of my inner organs and based on that, my body is fine. Getting therapeutic back massages lately, too, but the symptoms didn't start with that, but more likely with a recent interpersonal crisis (resolution/dealing with).

 

Not sure if in any way related, but I'm also craving meat lately. If this is about grounding, then I don't know whether it's a healing or an avoidance reaction.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Owledge

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Flolfolil

[Owledge]

i crave meat during the winter too, that is possibly a seasonal thing

Only started a few days ago though.

[Songtsan]

I sometimes have extreme fits of yawning when beginning exercise, as if my body is somehow being averse to the activity, or perhaps needing to alter some O2/CO2 balance

[LaoZiDao]

From your description, you are low on iron and blood oxygen levels are low. No, not a pure TCM "perspective" but giving you a realistic actionable perspective that you should understand.

 

Sounds like your lungs are weak, in turn kidneys are suffering. Metal (lungs) generates water (kidneys). You need to eat some beef, try at least 3 times a week, try a good Vietnamese Pho Noodle Soup, these are good because of the iron mineral rich soup, and (lamb is not good enough, must be beef) smaller easy to digest pieces of meat. They usually come with mung bean sprouts and lemon which help to balance the fire from the rich minerals from the beef etc.

You will also get a good effect from eating a few chestnuts and fresh dates, don't over do this as its quite fiery, just a moderate amount. You should also take a good quality red wine, just shot (or 1 glass at most) after dinner, before bed (not every night, don't over do it). Don't go to bed late either.. 10-11pm max.

P.S Blood test are not to most accurate thing either.

I would suggest that you:

• Eat beef (preferable in soups) x3 a week.
• Supplement 100mg of magnesium per day as its not in the soils.
• Supplement 50mg of zinc its required as its not in the soils. There are some details about supplementing which you can ask me in a PM if you want to know, such as when to take, what brands (as some brands don't absorb at all, and some are just plain low quality).
• I would also recommend you supplement iron, but only do this for a couple weeks to get the ball rolling.

[LaoZiDao]

Also drink Chenpi (mandarin peel tea) after meals. Just a few cups worth.

[Owledge]

Those are some very narrow and special recommendations there. Some of it might not even be feasible. I did have somewhat more craving for Blockhouse burgers lately and I'm often making me some basic instant noodle soup.

 

Most importantly: Those are all not adressing where a sudden deficiency of minerals is supposed to be coming from.

I eat a handful of chlorella and spirulina every day as supplement, and my main diet isn't something you'd associate with deficiencies either.

 

Did you assume iron deficiency solely because of assumed low oxygen?

You know that it was shown in experiments that high oxygen or low CO2 levels in the blood don't solve yawning? At least Western science states that it's still a mystery to them what causes it in many cases.

Before I start hunting for exotic foods (I'm low on energy anyway and dealing with crap as I mentioned), I'd like to understand what's actually going on at the root.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Owledge

[freeform]

Really interesting advice from a dietary tcm perspective!

 

From a different perspective, you may have a frozen diaphragm (probably caused by internal emotional 'weather'). There are many ways to work with this, including massaging deeply under your ribcage (painful) also stretching around your ribs, chest and back. An emotional release may accompany this.

 

Another interesing thing you could try is breathing through a straw - just a few natural breaths while sitting up straight - you may need to experiment, but the result is a reflexive deep abdominal breath that happens spontaneously - kind of like a sigh, but different - (when it happens, do it without the straw!) A few of these will help to loosen your diaphragm.

Edited January 28, 2015 by freeform

[Owledge]

@Freeform

Breathing through a straw changed my breath while doing it: I felt muscle tension on the right side next to the lower parts of the spine, and to lesser degrees in some other areas. (Also happens without straw though when breathing in very much.) I don't know where exactly to massage below the ribcage, but I'll do it here and there.

I definitely FEEL as if it could indeed be a problem with diaphragm and tension due to emotional stress.

At the same time, my caffeine pills are kicking in and I ate some sweets. That seems to have helped a bit in chasing away the blues.

I generally feel like fighting a losing battle (again) and almost sick of even trying. Nothing left to do and readily available that represents relaxation. And winter on top of that. Horrible feeling.

[Andrei]

Maybe you need some vitamin D3, or some complex B50.

[henro]

Sighing is usually associated with Liver Qi Stagnation, i.e. stress, emotional issues

 

Deep incomplete breaths, and yawning possibly kidney qi failing to grasp.

 

Difficult to give a complete TCM diagnosis without pulse and tongue...

Edited January 28, 2015 by henro

[LaoZiDao]

I did have somewhat more craving for Blockhouse burgers lately and I'm often making me some basic instant noodle soup.

 

Craving for foods like this is a sure sign of nutritional deficiency's.

 

 

I eat a handful of chlorella and spirulina every day as supplement, and my main diet isn't something you'd associate with deficiencies either.

 

You are craving meat.. this tells a lot. Your lungs are weak, this also tells a lot. Lungs are element metal, minerals are metal..a sign of weak lungs in TCM is weakness of breath, paleness etc (I have not seen you so I cannot say). From a western perspective IMO sounds like it is iron deficiency. Also now you say you have low energy - also typical iron deficiency symptoms.

[soaring crane]

I've gathered from a 5-elements chart that deep sighing is associated with the kidneys, which are associated with fear.

 

can you post the chart? Are you generally fearful? You don't seem the type, from what I gather about you.

[Uroboros]

An important aspect of yawning that is not commonly talked about is its healing/ qi transformative function. When you yawn, it opens space. It clears away. Try utilizing yawning with your qigong/ yoga movements or poses and see how it starts to open where you are closed. If you feel you need to yawn allot, do so. See how you feel after. My experience is that once the impulse rests, there is a transformation internally.

 

You must open up/ delve into the yawn, though. Not just yawn weakly, give yourself to it and see what changes.

[blue eyed snake]

may I ask some questions first, based on your story I think i have an idea what it is

 

do you have dizziness? if yes at what time of day

do you have a feeling of tingling in the face and/or hands other body parts, if yes at what time of day and is there an relation with the periods of breathing difficulties.

 

How long can you hold your breath, i mean, not to the point of turning blue but just to the point you start to feel this is getting really uncomfortable

 

do you have problems with vision

 

do you have reduced concentration and memory

Edited January 28, 2015 by blue eyed snake

[Songtsan]

Generally, in the winter time I try to make use of light therapy (removes the melatonin in the pineal gland), triple ginseng (red, white, korean), ashwaghanda, chromium picolinate, vitamin B12, cal/mag/zinc/vit. D, and make sure you get outside in the cold weather at least 30 mins a day. It wouldn't hurt to supplement iron a little bit (a week or two) and see what happens. Maybe take some iodine for a while.

[Daeluin]

From my personal perspective, I found yawning and sighing to be different, but related.

 

When I would sigh, I was allowing my energy to deflate.

 

When I would yawn, I was trying to replenish the oxygen/qi to the deeper layers of my body where it was lacking due to my bad posture and sighing.

 

When I developed deeper breathing patterns, began to turn my awareness more inward instead of keeping my awareness very externally focused, and worked on holding a better posture, my yawning and sighing all but stopped unless I was tired.

 

Naturally, and as others have said, this could be one of many things.

[Owledge]

You are craving meat.. this tells a lot. Your lungs are weak, this also tells a lot. Lungs are element metal, minerals are metal..a sign of weak lungs in TCM is weakness of breath, paleness etc (I have not seen you so I cannot say). From a western perspective IMO sounds like it is iron deficiency. Also now you say you have low energy - also typical iron deficiency symptoms.

How about...

weak lungs = maybe not enough breating due to much distracting acitivity in the head? (intellectual work, worries, stress)

low energy = long history of feeling down/frustrated due to burnout caused by being 'stuck' in life? (crudely summarizing)

Are those things somehow removing iron from the body?

I am considering iron supplementation though. Doesn't hurt to try. Just have to figure out where to get it from without using up too much energy. (I have hazelnuts and almonds here and not craving those though.)

As you can see, I can identify psychological origins for my state. But in case there is an effect in both directions, I won't exclude the iron deficiency. (maybe malabsorption?) If the psyche can cause the physical symptoms in this case. But it would have to have been an old problem then.

Then again... wouldn't this show in a blood test? Or are minerals gone from the blood a few hours after a meal? (The blood test was done after I got out of bed.)

I generally get relatively little sunlight, if that's relevant.

But all my psyche problems easily vanish once I do something that gets stuff done. There isn't really a sluggish reaction to those. That's why I'm mainly looking at psychological factors.

 

 

can you post the chart? Are you generally fearful? You don't seem the type, from what I gather about you.

I can't find it on the net anymore. It's a PDF titled "classification of things according to the theory of the five elements".

 

 

may I ask some questions first, based on your story I think i have an idea what it is

 

do you have dizziness? if yes at what time of day

do you have a feeling of tingling in the face and/or hands other body parts, if yes at what time of day and is there an relation with the periods of breathing difficulties.

 

How long can you hold your breath, i mean, not to the point of turning blue but just to the point you start to feel this is getting really uncomfortable

 

do you have problems with vision

 

do you have reduced concentration and memory

 

No dizziness. No tingling. Holding breath: ~ 1 minute. No vision problems. Reduced concentation and memory: Only due to life circumstances. My memory hasn't had much practice and when I have to do stuff like reading or handling complex dynamic variables in a problem, if there's no motivating factor behind it, I get thinking-blockage. This is definitely stuff I want to talk about with a psychotherapist, but finding one (and a suitable one) is one of those very tedious things.

I seem to have chronic low blood pressure. Often cold hands/feet (although lately often sweating feet), and the occasional non-annoying level of tinnitus in my left ear.

Sometimes when I'm feeling impaired by fatigue, I take a caffeine pill and most of the time that makes me function a bit better, because the fatigue state itself against my intention kinda drags my mood down additionally.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Owledge

[Spotless]

I've gathered from a 5-elements chart that deep sighing is associated with the kidneys, which are associated with fear.

Now I'm trying to examine my condition based on TCM. I'm dealing with some rough stuff lately, more than usual that is, so maybe it's related. Since two days ago or so, I yawn quite a lot, but it's kinda mixed with sighing. I'd get am impulse to breathe deeply, and most of the times that (which I couldn't even clearly distinguish whether it's yawning or sighing) attempts to breathe deeply into the belly, but fails. Only sometimes I manage to breathe it down into the belly. I always try, but it just doesn't work. It probably works better if I don't try consciously.

 

Is my body/psyche trying to get rid of something? Is this a symptom of cleansing or an active harmful process?

My waking cycle has always been very flexible in recent years, but it's still unusual that I get out of bed and after 6 hours awake I am damn unmotivated, have the blues and (attempt to) yawn/deep-breathe usually several times a minute.

 

I've had a blood and urine test lately and ultrasonic examination of my inner organs and based on that, my body is fine. Getting therapeutic back massages lately, too, but the symptoms didn't start with that, but more likely with a recent interpersonal crisis (resolution/dealing with).

 

Not sure if in any way related, but I'm also craving meat lately. If this is about grounding, then I don't know whether it's a healing or an avoidance reaction.

I have not read the other responses so I may be repeating some but if you are in practice and particularly meditating a fair amount or working in the energy arts yawning is often something that occurs and is a very good sign that energy is releasing from blocks and bindings of it within your systems.

 

If you are meditating a lot you may also find watery eyes, runny nose and popping sounds particularly in the upper and mid neck areas. Or you may need to "crack" your neck or stretch it. Sometimes just a quick turn to get a pop.

 

Spine stretching may also be something you are drawn to. These are all very healthy signs that your body is talking to you and that it is releasing in very common healthy and very positive ways.

 

Regarding the releasing of fear - about 98+ % of the blocks you will release including all resistance is fear based so the odds that any release is fear based is almost a given. (Though most of it is not recognized as fear)

I used to yawn to the point that I thought I would get jaw cramps from the often long exaggerated intense yawns.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Spotless

[LaoZiDao]

weak lungs = maybe not enough breating due to much distracting acitivity in the head? (intellectual work, worries, stress)

low energy = long history of feeling down/frustrated due to burnout caused by being 'stuck' in life? (crudely summarizing)

 

The fact that you have low energy and feeling down and "stuck" is all due to YOUR BODY CONDITION. Lets not look at external factors and point the finger, your internal condition is what is responsible for any external troubles you are having. It starts with having a healthy body, rich Jing Qi Shen, and being well nourished. You should try and read about Dr Weston A Price and nutrition, one of the few good doctors in our history.

 

You are all over the place and making things difficult for yourself with your wild theories. For me this is a pretty simple case of nutrition. Kinda common.

Edited January 29, 2015 by LaoZiDao

[blue eyed snake]

Thanks for your second post.

 

I’m reacting because I recognize your breathing problem from personal experience, more than a decade ago. I can’t give you a TCM view but would like to give the western view on this. From the other posts I gather there’s a lot of overlap between the two.

The way you describe it is a precise description of what western psychology calls ( chronic) hyperventilation. There is no need for it to be chronic by the way,so don’t you worry. It’s less well known as the acute version which can lead to panic attacks.

But I remember very well the feeling of helplessness, of ‘what the hell is going on in my body”

 

Reading your story you’ve got a lot of stress for a long time, i seem to read that something has closed now and a new beginning is opening itself?

Both ways, the classic way to look at this is that the body will react on this kind of stress with the typical stress-reaction. There is a tiger, so all your body wants is fight or flight, therefor adrenalin takes over, heart and lungs are ready for a lot of action needed to conserve the body. Only, the kind of stress you’re dealing with doesn't give an outlet fort this. But the body reaction continues. Psychologist mostly call the state your in anxiety, and that is closely related to the fear mentioned in your OP. Tinnitus also is a sign of an overworked stress-system

That means that for a long time you’ve been producing adrenalin with no bodily outlet. Results are double 1) you’re adrenal glands are overworked and depleted ( and this i think is part of the reason that TCM tells us fatigue has to do with the kidneys) and 2) you’re respiration is out of balance.

 

Respiration has at least two components that are relevant here .

1) From the biochemistry point of view respiration is a fine balance between uptake of oxygen ( when there is shortage you get tired) and eliminating of carbon dioxide. The breathing reflex is controlled by the level of carbon dioxide in the blood, not by the level of oxygen. This is a system that allows for a lot of different bodyactions, works both when your running away from that tiger, and when you’re relaxing. Now what has happened to your body is that you recently tipped the balance over. Leading to the choking feeling you have.

2) Anxiety and high breathing are closely related, and I think that what was earlier called a frozen diaphragm is closely related to that.

 

A lot of advice already given relate closely tot his western view, but for completeness i will repeat it

 

First the choking feeling, I think when you ( start to) feel it, you should try tot take some action, a brisk walk if you’re able to, or when you need to stay inside something like pushups. This will elevate the carbondioxidelevel in your blood and should help. When you’re sitting in an office this is not feasible, you can hold your breath as I asked you before, breath out as slowly as you can and repeat a few times.. That's the short term thing. When you find this works it confirms that something with your carbon-dioxide levels is out of balance.

 

A frozen diaphragm you can liken to the feeling you probably have in the neck and shoulders. It’s a muscle that is continually in a state of too high contraction. For that magnesium (citrate) should be helpful. Bananas and cashew-nuts are also good. Massage sounds good to, but indeed emotions can come out, let them go.

 

Then you’re adrenal glands are depleted, and you have fatigue. Don’t take caffeine, theine, alcohol and chocolate. These all tell you’re adrenal glands to start working again. Caffeine serves to boost your stress system, while you need to get out of that circle. I think this advice is close related to what TCM says.

 

Besides on a more holistic vein, if your body tells you that its tired, then give it rest, it really needs that. What you’ve been through takes a lot from the body, not many people realize that but its true all the same

 

Furthermore, drink lots of water to help you body clean up. TCM says that it should be water, that other fluids the body takes as food and that water is the best thing to clean the body. Kidney-specialists tell us that for every cup of coffee we take, two cups of water are needed to process it. That means, one coffee, two water, net result for the watercontent of the body is zero.

I totally agree with earlier comments on yawning and stretching, i’ve found them to be helpful.

 

And in general, don’t worry about it. your body is fine, you can trust that checkup. You’ve just asked much of your body and now is the time to give it what it needs, that means both rest when you’re tired. Just lay down, take a good stretch and give your body that rest. But it also means real bodily action. Good food, go easy on sugar and refined foods, lots of fruit and veggies. Having fought that ‘tiger’ for so long not only means you’ve depleted your body but longterm stress also leads to an impaired uptake of nutrients. So, take good care of yourself and be patient,it took time to build up and it will take to heal but you will be fine again.

 

Reason fort his long and somewhat technical post. 15 Years ago I've been searching long for these answers, all the while getting worse because I worried about my body. You’ve been to a medical checkup and they didn’t recognize it. It takes time for these things to come in mainstream knowledge.

 

You’re not having tingling or dizziness, and you can hold your breath for a minute, I think you just recently ‘tipped the scales’ so I think you can overcome this stage quite soon. So, not TCM but I hope it helps you.

 

Wish you the best

 

Question for members who have knowledge of TCM: I’ve an intuition that the frozen diaphragm is caused by this longterm stress. And that the body spontaneously tries to fix this by quick breathing.

 

 

[Owledge]

 

I can't find it on the net anymore. It's a PDF titled "classification of things according to the theory of the five elements".

@soaring crane

 

By chance, I found it now, while looking for something else:

https://conscioustouchbc.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/theory-of-the-five-elements1.jpg

[松永道]

Question for members who have knowledge of TCM: I’ve an intuition that the frozen diaphragm is caused by this longterm stress. And that the body spontaneously tries to fix this...

 

Investigate the idea that every subconscious or semiconscious bodily reaction is an attempt to regain equilibrium. I have found great insight in looking at symptoms from this angle.

 

This seems to be a case of primary spleen-liver disharmony, with secondary lung deficiency. There is a old saying in Chinese medicine, 多思则气结 "too much thinking causes qi binding." Primary manifestations of "Qi binding" are poor digestion, a tight diaphragm and low energy. In this case, the feeling of low energy isn't actually due to have too little energy but rather stuck energy not getting to where it's needed.

 

LaoZiDao's recommendations look spot on. Gentle enough to be safe (that is, prescribe over the Internet) and specific enough to address the issue. Especially the chenpi tea. He basically wrote the food grade version of the formula a CM physician might use to treat you (四逆散/逍遥散/温胆汤等).

 

@LaoZiDao, Thanks for sharing!

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I, too yawn when i breathe deeply. The more I feel the need to, the more excessively and repeatedly and unfulfillingly I yawn.

I suspect that this (yawning) is the body's natural response to extending one's (breathing) capacity beyond the current limits of the (self-adjusting, self repairing) bodily system.

In addition, i believe the micro-effects would be that your body is attempting to become a (sort of) vacuum; cellular inhilation - sub cellular, mollecular, atomic, sub atomic, etcetera infinitum - and synchronization of cellular exhilation. Yawning, therefore, is synched circulation (Maybe?).

Lastly, i do feel most certainly that any and all physiological practices and training activities only promote the healthy exchanges and self-repairing/self-adjusting bodily systems. From simple stretching to Yoga, to walking/jogging to Bagua Zhang.

Qi Gong, Taijiquan, Meditation, and Deep Focus Analysis ("american meditation") are all just a small few examples of circulatory practices which take place on various and differing wavelengths and sizes and volumes. Each probably accompanied by its own yawning and sighing symptoms.

Purely from an energy/Qi perspective.
Do not count out the (equally intertwined) physiological symptoms these things can also correlate with. I saw iron deficiency mentioned, i wouldnt count it out in the least bit.

[blue eyed snake]

Investigate the idea that every subconscious or semiconscious bodily reaction is an attempt to regain equilibrium. I have found great insight in looking at symptoms from this angle.

 

thank you, that is what i'm trying to do, but still being unused to it I tend to ask for confirmation.

 

I remember that when I had the symptoms described by the OP it felt as if my body was doing/ wanting two things at once. Deep abdominal breathing to calm the mind and give energy, on the other hand that the quick-breathing was related to a need to unfreeze my diaphragm. So my body had two opposite impulses which left me feeling choking.

 

Now I find that while i'm doing standing posture, sometimes i find myself quick-breathing and then emotional release comes. That led me to the idea that emotion literally builds up in the diaphragm, like shoulders and neck can become hard with tension.

 

I feel a growing interest in TCM and the way it relates to modern medicine and psychology.