Comments on invention idea requested

[Songtsan]

OK, think TENS/EMS units.

 

Now think about those electrical abdominal stimulators

 

Next think about sensory deprivation tanks.

 

After this think about sodium being a good conductor

 

Then think about an electrified solution of epsom salt in the sensory deprivation tank, with the salt density being a little bit lower, so that the whole body was immersed and you wear a snorkle.

 

Then send various electrical pulses through the solution, of various strengths, in order to flex the muscles of the body.

 

Also, think about the tension/relaxation effect of causing great pleasure to the muscles and associated myofascia.

 

So you get a workout, pain relief, detoxification through increased blood exchange, and possible could enter an interesting state of altered consciousness

 

Sounds like it would cost maybe $5000 max for a working prototype...

 

I have a friend who is an electrical engineer I could consult

 

What do y'all think?

Edited January 28, 2015 by Songtsan

[MooNiNite]

are there any specific areas of the body that you cannot put the electrical simulators?

 

not a sexual joke

[shunka]

He who chooses the quick and easy path swiftly becomes an agent of evil.

[thelerner]

i think.. OUch. A tiny jolt from static shock hurts, probably worse when you're non insulated, might be very painful. You get a tiny bit of salt water in your eyes, that hurts, get a little in your mouth, you gag. Get all 3- pain, stinging eyes and gagging in a dark enclosed coffin and you might be in trouble.

 

Water + electricity = trouble (usually) so experiment carefully

 

 

My idea- a person in a small tent enclosure (so its dark) hammock suspending person in a small raised tub of salt (epsom?) water, either a good sound system or decent headphones (water proof & long cord). Then play a good hypnotic routine with appropriate light show focused above and around them on the tents ceiling and sides.

 

You might be able to run the sound and lights off a ipod and cheap projector, and go relatively cheap on the

Edited January 29, 2015 by thelerner

[Songtsan]

Mainly I thought that this invention might have great therapeutic efficacy.

 

Good points about knowing which areas shouldn't be electrically stimulated, salt in eyes, etc.

 

I might experiment with a kiddie pool, a few dozen pounds of epsom salt and some form of electrical generation.

 

I don't believe in evil (or good). I believe in experimentation for improved living. Neccesity isn't the mother of invention - ease of living is. Saying that a therapeutic device leads to evil because it's an 'easy way' is like saying that one shouldn't take herbs or medications, because they are too easy of a fix. Better get rid of your washer and dryer while you are at it, and your indoor plumbing and your car.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"Then send various electrical pulses through the solution, of various strengths, in order to flex the muscles of the body."

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The fine and very very sophisticated way in which chemical and electrical energy and signals are processed by the body can be overwhelmed by artificial electrical fields.

 

Getting used to an artificial electrical stimulation might impair the intricate natural mechanisms we have.

 

And, generally, we do already live in a conductive fluid environment that is hooked up to many very large electrical generators. The results of this experiment on human beings thus far has been fairly horrible, in that the incidence of degenerative disease has risen to a fairly preposterous level unmatched by any previous known time period of human development.

 

Some information on this is in the book "Dirty Electricity" by Samuel Milham, which details correspondences with installation of electrical power systems in the US to disease statistics.

 

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"Better get rid of your washer and dryer while you are at it, and your indoor plumbing and your car."

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Yes, I have done that quite some time ago. Now I'm using a computer again sometimes, but I gave those up too, for several years. And living in houses. And doctors and medicine.

 

I do admire your desire to create a therapeutic device to help people, and posting about it here for opinions.

 

And people do need some kind of help.

 

But is electrifying them going to help, or is that actually one of the causes of the issues they now need help with?

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Songtsan]

Well, ECT, electroconvulsive therapy has shown to significantly help treat depression when nothing else worked. Have you ever tried EMS/TENS? They are awesome. Cheap too....I haven't heard of any long term negative effects from it.

[Brian]

If you don't dictate a pathway, electricity will find its own. This is not always a good thing. (Just food for thought...)

[Nungali]

I might experiment with a kiddie pool, a few dozen pounds of epsom salt and some form of electrical generation.

 

Why is that red flashing light going off in my head ?

 

[Nungali]

There is maybe a safer 'experiment' ?

 

 

[zanshin]

No brain, heart, eyes or carotid sinus. Never for anyone with pacemaker or defibrillator. Nowhere near abdomen if pregnancy. But any sort of jolt enough to flex muscles to whole body in salt water seems like a pretty dangerous experiment, could spark a seizure or arrhythmia and then they'd drown.

[Spotless]

Perhaps the most important thing is how many would you sell - as an inventor who makes money on my inventions/ designs/ products I would say the maket would be tiny - the market for floatations tanks is very small.

 

The point Brian brought up is also a very big one.

 

Then you have to account for vast differences in body mass and size.

 

Anyone with a pacemaker is out of this market.

 

Anyone renting floatation tanks is already grappling with insurance concerns - and probably most are owned as rentals in spas and massage locations.

 

Most customers using them are looking for the peace and relaxation - not muscle twitching, so the conversion rate even of the users would probably be also quite low.m

 

I have 4 tems units I was experimenting with - they are somewhat tricky to adjust in a dry environment and much better adjusted personally than by another person - this could be even more of a problem with a person that is floating and moving easily.

 

But - other than these and other considerations it might fly.

(The actual boards and units cost next to nothing excluding approval testing - like well under $100)

Very popular and cheap in China - some decent ones for $8USD - yes - Eight dollars.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Spotless

[ralis]

Electrical current above the waist will and can have a detrimental effect on the heart. Submerged in water is even riskier. This applies to small DC currents. Avoid AC unless you want liability problems.

Edited January 29, 2015 by ralis

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"Well, ECT, electroconvulsive therapy has shown to significantly help treat depression when nothing else worked."

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So would hitting the patients over the head with a baseball bat.

 

Seriously, this is like saying that burning people a bit "takes their mind off their worries".

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Spotless]

The last post does remind me of a therapy I once proposed - "Fish bat therapy".

 

At the time it occurred to me that a great many people might benifit from walking into a sporting goods store and purchasing a fish bat (a small bat used for hitting fish that are still thrashing around after being brought onboard).

 

The idea is that when they find themselves sleepily making statements, judgement and gestures of overwhelming robotic idiocy that the existence of such tendencies is unendurable - they should willfully and with no compunction hit themselves with their fish bat until either thoroughly awakened from their utter hopelessness and sleep or until unconscious and during which time they will hopefully come to grapple with the task of relinquishing all said behavior.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Spotless

[Songtsan]

Re:

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"Well, ECT, electroconvulsive therapy has shown to significantly help treat depression when nothing else worked."

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So would hitting the patients over the head with a baseball bat.

 

Seriously, this is like saying that burning people a bit "takes their mind off their worries".

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

No really, there is a lot of respect for ECT in the industry and I have researched it enough not to discount it. It helps balance communication between right/left hemispheres and sort of 'resets' things. Its just gotten a bad rap.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"No really, there is a lot of respect for ECT in the industry and I have researched it enough not to discount it. It helps balance communication between right/left hemispheres and sort of 'resets' things. Its just gotten a bad rap."

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I bet there is a lot of respect for ECT in the industry that makes money using it on people who hadn't responded conveniently to the other "treatments" they had recieved.

 

Of course, the side effects are all symptoms of brain damage. Just because ECT is not mashing the brain like a pancake doesn't mean that real damage is not happening. And who do we trust to look for the damage and report it to us? The industry that did the ECT?

 

Do they really understand consciousness? No.

 

Do they even know how or why ECT even "works" to stop the inconvenient behaviors? They say no.

 

"Despite decades of research, the exact mechanism of action of ECT remains elusive" (wikipedia)

 

Basically, it's what they do to people in whom drugs didn't produce "results". They "bring out the Zapper and end that shit".

 

I have not had ECT myself, but I have spent much time working with a number of people who have had them. They are damaged. Anyone could see this. Have you spent much, or any, time talking with people who have had this done to them?

 

All this is, ECT, is a more "convenient" form of the same thinking behind lobotomy. It is not healing anything. It is not strengthening anything. It is disruptive and destructive.

 

It stops behaviors, yes, but at great expense to the individual.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Songtsan]

I've been seriously considering ECT myself, and have been discussing it with my psychiatrist. Perhaps I will come back and comment after having had a series....

Edited January 29, 2015 by Songtsan

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

sounds fun, and recreational, but not so sure it's necessary...

[Songtsan]

Not much IS necessary in life!

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"I've been seriously considering ECT myself, and have been discussing it with my psychiatrist. Perhaps I will come back and comment after having had a series...."

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Yes - if you have ECT, please come back (if you can find us) and let us know.

 

And - no sarcasm - I do sincerely wish you to have full success and happiness.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Songtsan]

Only barrier is that it requires admission to a hospital and I have been putting it off. I realize there will be short term memory loss associated with it, but I think I should know within one session whether or not it is good for me..

 

As far as this invention idea....it may not be feasible because of possible nervous system disruption in the above mentioned areas such as heart,etc....I may try a small experiment in which I use a small tub and do a foot or hand and see what effects vs. attaching leads to the origin & insertion of the muscles...

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

that sounds like the prudent approach.

[thelerner]

Few ideas are totally new, see what you can find on the internet. With the right phrasing you may find people who've experimented with this before. Maybe waay before. PDE's created many side show acts (& public animal executions) when it was being rolled out.

 

 

<pde = public displays of electricity>