Semen retention and sexual cultivation

[SunWuHong]

Im in need of some help and thought maybe some experience cultivators here may be able to assist me. I've been struggling for some time with the semen retention practice of Taoist sexual cultivation however I've only learned from books by Mantak Chia or Stephen Chang. My main goal is not ejaculating at all to attain non-leakage. I already know about the negative aspects of this which I can counter by practicing the Deer exercise. But Im having problems with stopping masturbation/ejaculation and cannot last longer than a month before developing some symptoms like restlessness, irritability, heart palpitations and anxiety. I should point out that I abused my source of jing for a long time so I have many symptoms associated with kidney jing defiency among other things. And I would also eventually want to open the governor and functional channel so I can circulate and recylce the sexual energy rather than lose it. Any advice or help is appreciated.

[Bubbles]

Hello,

 

Please find below some links and informations provided by a eminent TTB member Trunk, hoping it can help you pondering about the semen retention practice. Link 2 is very clear.

 

As far as Kidney Jing deficiency is concerned, you may ask a TCM practitioner for a real diagnosis, especially if your are a young or middle aged man. At any rate, chances are that sexual cultivation is not, in that case, the best way to go. Herbs, diet, qigong/neigong may help more without risking internal injuries. Semen retention can be practiced by simply avoiding or strongly diminishing sexual activity.

 

Link 1: http://thetaobums.com/topic/30784-healing-tao-cautions/

Link 2 : http://alchemicaltaoism.com/HLDangerMain.htm

 

Best

[SunWuHong]

Hello,

 

Please find below some links and informations provided by a eminent TTB member Trunk, hoping it can help you pondering about the semen retention practice. Link 2 is very clear.

 

As far as Kidney Jing deficiency is concerned, you may ask a TCM practitioner for a real diagnosis, especially if your are a young or middle aged man. At any rate, chances are that sexual cultivation is not, in that case, the best way to go. Herbs, diet, qigong/neigong may help more without risking internal injuries. Semen retention can be practiced by simply avoiding or strongly diminishing sexual activity.

 

Link 1: http://thetaobums.com/topic/30784-healing-tao-cautions/

Link 2 : http://alchemicaltaoism.com/HLDangerMain.htm

 

Best

I misused the term semen retention, I was using the term in relation to solo cultivation not dual. I already know all the potential risks given in link 2 and have done none of it. Qigong and neigong is pointless if you don't learn sexual cultivation first, otherwise you'll just lose energy through sexual means. Semen retention can be practiced by simple avoiding or strongly diminishing sexual activity, if it was that easy I wouldn't be asking for help. You might be able to hold out for a week or two but eventually you'll succumb to it. Besides even if you reach the 3 month mark it becomes dangerous because at that time you would have built up a tremendouse amount of sexual energy and if you ejacualte at that point, there is a serious risk of that energy becoming stuck in your head causing a multitude of problems both pyhsical and mental.

[Bubbles]

Hi

 

I don’t know exactly what your sources are but I would check against medical literature if I were you. Best selling books about sexual cultivation are sometimes misleading.

 

The symptoms you described in your first post are: restlessness, irritability, heart palpitations and anxiety. These are heat signs linked to Heart yin and Kidney yin deficiency. Kidneys (for prenatal) and Spleen (for postnatal) are responsible for giving the Heart Shen an anchor into the Jing. The Jing is supporting and the Shen is animating. Jing and Shen need one another. Kidney yin or qi deficiency is often caused by over indulging in sex. It can lead to destabilizing the Heart/ Shen who loses its base. But it is reciprocal. Indulging in lustful thoughts (and generally speaking in exciting emotions) uses up Kidney yin/qi.

 

The signs you described are often associated with Heart and Kidney who don’t meet/communicate anymore. Believing that solo cultivation is a solution seems more trying to correct a wrongdoing by another one: Heart and Kidney have a special connection through the Minister Fire in Ming Men who is the counter part of the Sovereign Fire of the Heart. When you are having a lot of sexual thoughtd and lust in your Heart, you just stir up both Fires and lose qi even if you don’t ejaculate, and especially if you don’t ejaculate because your excitation have no outcome.

So you see the root problem is in the Heart-Shen- I mean the mind. The more you will indulged into sexual thoughts, the more you will indulge into sexual activities and if you practice semen retention on top of that, you will not solve your problem, you will just heat up your body. Control you mind and it will help.

 

If you are looking for quick and easy fix, you may be disappointed. Herbs, acupuncture, diet and balanced life can make a noticeable difference quickly but, only stabilizing the Shen will solve your problem in the long term. Mind is the root. Then you may try sexual practices if you are still interested in them.

 

The steps are: regulating the body, regulating the breath, regulating the mind, regulating the Qi and the Spirit. For that you need, qigong, neigong and meditation.

 

This is just to explain my point of view.

 

You should try posting your problem in the thread dedicated to semen retention. There are a few members here who seem quite happy with it.

 

I attached some excerpt of the Suwen- the foundational text of Chinese medicine. The Chapter one is specially helpful in understanding that a peaceful heart is a requirement to qi cultivation.

 

Good luck

neijing.pdf

Edited January 30, 2015 by bubbles

[SunWuHong]

No the symptoms I posted only happens after I 'avoid or strongly diminishing sexual activity' as you so wisely suggested. Forcibly suppressing sexual desire is just as bad as indulging in it. I know numerous monks and nuns who have used your suggestion but to only fail and fall into anxiety. Catholic priests do this as well and look how old and weak they end up, even ending up with prostate cancer. Thankfully I know how to prevent that little problem but the big one still remains. Forcibly suppressing sexual desire is just stupid and shouldn't even be attempted unless you know how to transform and recycle sexual energy, which is what Im asking about.

[Bubbles]

I don't recommend nor suggest 'forcibly suppressing sexual desire'. I talked about regulating all dimensions of your being (body, breath,qi, mind and spirit). This is done through qigong, neigong and meditation.

 

As I said in my previous post, even if you don't have sexual activity, having sexual thoughs have still some bad effects that indeed will be worse if there is no outcome (I mean ejaculation). If you diminish your sexual activity but don't balance your life on the other hand, it is anything but normal to have the symtoms you decribe.

So, neither I said you should stop having any sexual activity overnight, nor I said you should go ahead and masturbate every other day.

 

When asking for help, it would be good to receive advice with an open mind ( otherwise why asking for other's advice?) and be objective when reading them, questioning yourself and then make your own opinion. No one ask you to accept blindly anything. I suggested you consult a TCM doctor and read medical literature.

 

Good bye

[soaring crane]

I misused the term semen retention, I was using the term in relation to solo cultivation not dual. I already know all the potential risks given in link 2 and have done none of it. Qigong and neigong is pointless if you don't learn sexual cultivation first, otherwise you'll just lose energy through sexual means.

 

Pointless? Depends on what your desired point is, I guess.

[C T]

Some Buddhists who practice retention dedicate that undertaking to noble endeavours, channelling all obstacles and difficulties they encounter into the path itself. Lacking such direction usually increases the probability of encountering many challenges with celibacy and retentive phases.

 

Training in basic discipline helps to achieve concentration thru mindful adaptation to ensure accumulated merit increases rather than futilely wasted. Primary aim is to generate momentum, tapping into potential gathered so as to avoid wastage. When momentum is gathered and stored, unnecessary 'doing' ceases. Effortlessness is realised.

[nickyro]

Besides even if you reach the 3 month mark it becomes dangerous because at that time you would have built up a tremendouse amount of sexual energy and if you ejacualte at that point, there is a serious risk of that energy becoming stuck in your head causing a multitude of problems both pyhsical and mental.

 

Can you please explain this paragraph.

How do you expel this energy stuck in the upper body if ejaculation is of no use?

Edited January 31, 2015 by nickyro

[Saoshun]

I misused the term semen retention, I was using the term in relation to solo cultivation not dual. I already know all the potential risks given in link 2 and have done none of it. Qigong and neigong is pointless if you don't learn sexual cultivation first, otherwise you'll just lose energy through sexual means. Semen retention can be practiced by simple avoiding or strongly diminishing sexual activity, if it was that easy I wouldn't be asking for help. You might be able to hold out for a week or two but eventually you'll succumb to it. Besides even if you reach the 3 month mark it becomes dangerous because at that time you would have built up a tremendouse amount of sexual energy and if you ejacualte at that point, there is a serious risk of that energy becoming stuck in your head causing a multitude of problems both pyhsical and mental.

 

 

Not true. Either learn to sexual cultivate energy or realize emptiness of things. If you see emptiness in sexuality no need to cultivate any sexual practices.

[Bubbles]

I have found the article below which explains in plain language what I was trying to say.

Underline is mine.

 

***********************************************

Yang Sheng: The thing about jing by Xiaoyao Xingzhe

The Lantern: Volume I, Issue 2 - Article #12

 

In the last issue we looked at jing/essence as a trust fund of inherited constitutional energy, intended to be used for procreation and emergencies only, but regularly wasted through failure to understand that: a) it is not infinite, and b ) it can be replaced only through long-term quiet accumulation in the midst of stillness.

Jing/essence is, in fact, the power of our youth. Those with less age quickly.

Shang Yang-Zi quotes the Daoist acupuncturist Ma Dan-Yang about its importance:

 

“The most precious thing people have is jing/essence, but it is very limited … [Ma] Dan-Yang says ‘Sex is worse than tigers or wolves, it destroys a person’s beauty and bearing, it ruins good actions. Wasted jing, extinguished spirit -- these simply lead to premature death. Those who would aspire to the Dao must avoid [excess in this regard]. Others, of less intelligence, quip that the span of their life is set by fate, why not enjoy it? But the old saying warns: when the oil dries up, the lamp goes out; when the marrow is exhausted, a person dies. You must know that jing/essence is the root and basis of your body – how long does a tree last when its root is cut away?’ To nourish life, first treasure the jing/essence. When the jing/essence is full, qi will flourish, and then the spirit will be hearty, the body healthy, with few illnesses. The organs inside will function perfectly, the skin outside will glow, your visage will be bright, your eyes and ears and brain sharp! And all of this from reducing the wastage of jing/essence in your youth. If you have done this, and on top of this can reduce desire altogether, you will live a good long life.”

 

It is not only ejaculation that wastes jing/essence: anything that disturbs its quiet repose and incites it to movement has already caused wastage of the jing, as it has become transformed into active energy waiting to be used. Jing is potential. Once this source has been tapped, that activated energy cannot be easily transformed back into the potential that was.

So what disturbs jing? Anything that excites desire, especially sexual desire, disturbs jing. Little desires cause little disturbance, the greater the desire, the greater the disturbance to the jing/essence. Desires modified by control are much less disrupting.

 

This, of course, is anathema to a consumer-driven society (or at least to the information media fueled by advertising), which is why these sorts of ideas are not very popular, but we should be able to see that in fact unbridled craving for things is ultimately weakening for the whole society: less essence, less spirit, less will.

 

This idea, that desire not skilfully controlled will easily drain jing/essence, also shows up the potential danger in the Taoist sexual techniques advocated by so many popular books – dangers in fact warned against for centuries by Daoists themselves. Thomas Cleary’s Sex, Health and Long Life provides a balanced introduction to the topic.

But how do we build up jing/essence, then? Well, how about a little peace and quiet, first …

*************************************************************

source: http://www.thelantern.com.au/resource_detail.php?id=55

 

*************************************************************

Edited February 2, 2015 by bubbles

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Jing/essence is, in fact, the power of our youth. Those with less age quickly."

-----

 

Can anyone point to some examples of people who have aged quickly due to exessive sexual activity?

 

And, additionally, examples of people who exhibit advanced aging due obviously and solely to their having less essence?

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[henro]

VonKrankenhaus - pretty much any rockstar…. They all look beat on in their 20's. Some young starlets as well, Lyndsey Lohan being the most obvious. Of course drugs play a huge part in this as well.

 

But I think it's worth looking at who these texts may have originally been written for - emperors who had 1000 concubines, wealthy families who had 10 or more wives, and adepts who spent a lot of time alone. The common man, with only one wife, and who worked in the fields all day was not the target of these practices.

 

Daniel Reid has some thoughts on how often one should have sex based on their age, but I don't have it front of me.

 

Further, modern research shows us that testosterone increases for about 7 days after ejaculation, and then drops off. There is no longterm benefit to abstinence on a hormonal level. The benefit comes from not overdoing it so you don't have chronically low testosterone.

 

Sun si Miao said "A man may attend health and longevity if he practices an ejaculation frequency of twice monthly, or 24 times a year. If at the same time he pays careful attention to proper diet and exercise, he will live a long and healthy life."

[Ilkka]

VonKrankenhaus - pretty much any rockstar…. They all look beat on in their 20's. Some young starlets as well, Lyndsey Lohan being the most obvious. Of course drugs play a huge part in this as well.

I have to disagree on this thing. The reason for that quick aging is because of excessive alcohol use. Also other recreational drugs have effect of course. All the "dead" substances are the reason for aging rapidly. This is why they suggest natural raw diet even. If you boil your spring water it loses the lifeforce that it had for a moment there. Qi is gone from the moment when animate matter is being heated more than it can take, usually 100 C, where the water boils in normal pressure. Some other animate matter lose their "lifeforce"/Qi in lower temperatures even.

 

I think that rockstars have stressful situations more than the other younger looking people. I think there are quite many factors to be accounted for in the aging process.

 

The more one gets sick/ill the more "years" they lose from their life, I think. The saying "What doesnt kill you makes you stronger" is only half truth on this matter. Because if one is almost always ill there is high possibility that the individual has a diet in need of rapid change.

 

So in conclusion I dont think sexual activity have so big of a role in the aging process, but the very diet. One needs chemicals in order to excrete chemicals, one needs energy in order to use the energy.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Ilkka

[Bubbles]

This is why they suggest natural raw diet even.

 

Well, from Chinese medicine viewpoint, raw diet is not good because raw food needs lot of qi to be digested. It taxes Spleen and Kidney. Food should be warmed, at least by steam or rapidly in a wok. Dietary principles say that balance between five elements should be seek, with a strong foundation in neutral flavor- Earth element. Raw diet is too cold and yin.

[wilfred]

Well, from Chinese medicine viewpoint, raw diet is not good because raw food needs lot of qi to be digested. It taxes Spleen and Kidney. Food should be warmed, at least by steam or rapidly in a wok. Dietary principles say that balance between five elements should be seek, with a strong foundation in neutral flavor- Earth element. Raw diet is too cold and yin.

 

yup this seems to be a huge fallacy with the whole raw-vegan movement, that it's the optimal diet for everyone. i don't think you'll get any arguments about the fibre side of things, but energetically it's only suited to people with extreme abundance of yang or more fire types. i've seen these type of people thrive on that diet, but they often make the mistake of presuming it would be best for everyone, without considering individual constitution. especially for those of us living in colder climates, it's all about balance. a lot of people pursue those type of diets without really knowing what they're doing and it can be dangerous. best thing is to supplement with green juicing to get a boost of raw micronutrients, maybe use extra enzymes if the body has problems metabolizing.

[Perceiver]

You raise an interesting question, Trunk.

 

I'm a few weeks into a non-masturbation period myself, and the first week was hard. But now it seems almost natural, and I've got so much more energy and mental clarity.

What worked for me was to review my general approach to sex: Why do I masturbate, and why do I desire sex with women that I know I will never be with anyway? Is it rational, is it doing me any good?

 

I realized that my sexual thoughts were based on frustration mostly, and that they were inherently irrational. I realized that what I really wanted was to have a meaningful sexual relationship with a girl that I could relate to.

That's when I lost interest in porn and masturbation. Has been going on for nearly a month and never felt better .

[Ilkka]

Well, from Chinese medicine viewpoint, raw diet is not good because raw food needs lot of qi to be digested. It taxes Spleen and Kidney. Food should be warmed, at least by steam or rapidly in a wok. Dietary principles say that balance between five elements should be seek, with a strong foundation in neutral flavor- Earth element. Raw diet is too cold and yin.

I do agree to the balancing things out, truthfully I do. Like wilfred said about it being good for some and not so good to others, I know this as well. Also I do this balancing out myself when it comes to my diet. I am "listening" my body and what it requires at any time, so I try to live with the need basis and dont buy much stuff that I dont need, i.e. sweets, carbonated beverages, etc. sugary stuff.

 

I dont eat all raw food, basically cant even if I wanted to because of winter time, nothing grows this time of the year. And I dont like the fruits or some greenhouse grown vegetables that are more or less imported so I stick to seasonal food stuff. I go pick some bilberries in the summer and freeze some of them for winter. I know its not fresh, because of the freezing process, but it works nicely. I like to do curd/quark from strawberries (self picked from relatively nearby growers) and bilberries(self picked from the local forest), and I make it "to die for" at some times when getting the it in perfect balance. Sometimes its just good but other times its way too good. I also can make sweet and extremely hot mustard spiced with cognac, which everyone who has tasted liked very much of it.

 

On another note what are the "five elements" you refer to?

[Bubbles]

It is all fine if your present diet feels right for you. I was only stating some general points.

 

If you want to know more about Five elements ('five phases' seem to be more appropriate ) you can easily find some information on the web TCM+Five elements.

 

Otherwise, I uploaded a file I found: it gives an explanation of TCM principles applied to diet

 

source: http://tcmdiet.com/resources/tcmdietgroupebook.pdf

 

Best,

 

edited for syntax

tcmdiet.pdf

Edited February 10, 2015 by bubbles