The nature of Tao and its '-ism'

[Daeluin]

We do need to look past what we think we know -- this in my opinion is absolutely necessary, and this honest searching is the main problem the majority of people face. It's something I'm facing all the time.

 

It's funny, how we yearn for and search for something outside of ourselves, and often feel rewarded when the seeking part of ourselves connects to something deeper in the outside. But we want this connection to be permanent, and it rarely is. When I return to myself I find the permanent connection I was looking for.

 

But I have an innate distrust of anyone claiming to have some special kind of knowledge,

 

I agree. And yet in this case the quote from the preface of this book was only saying it didn't find what it was seeking in other translations, and so it presented the answer it had been searching for. I've been learning to hear what is actually said beyond the words, otherwise the more sensitive I become, the more trapped I might allow myself to become by words that people don't actually mean, like "others got it wrong."

 

Every word in language contains polarity, and the more sensitive we become, the more offensive they ALL begin to seem. Yet does that mean those who use them intend these offences, or are they just trying to share?

 

especially when they're claiming that it's hidden in a book like the Laozi -- something that's been dissected continuously for centuries, and something which, in my opinion, does not reflect the ideas in that quote you posted very much at all.

 

I'm very curious what you think of the conversation at the end of the Working with Destiny thread, from posts #26 to #31.

 

I sometimes have a problem with this concept. No harm comes to him because he is worthless to others. Nothing mare than a grain of sand on a beach.

 

I'm not knocking the concept of something being useless and thereby preserving its life. But I actually find value in being useful. (I just don't like being misused.)

 

Most things in life are easy if you already know how to do them. But it takes a lot of trial and error to find simplicity (easy).

 

That's the thing I appreciated about the perspective shared in this book. The Laozi presented here is highly valued and attacked precisely because his value is seen as a threat.

 

I believe we've discussed how when one is humble, one cannot be humiliated, that one cannot be brought any lower than they believe themselves to be. And too, that maintaining unbroken sincerity upon this lowliness, it begins to grow, even as water flows to the lowest point and gradually begins to fill up.

 

The character presented here has done just that, maintaining unbroken sincerity placed upon humility and trust, simply flowing where he is led unwaveringly. And over time his way began to lead to where it would be seen and confronted, and yet was unassailable.

 

 

A: 'There's a secret to be found.'

Q: 'Have you found it yourself?'

A: 'Yes.'

Q: 'Can you show it to me?'

A : 'No, you have to find it yourself.'

Q: 'Can you tell me where it is?'

A: 'No. It's not that simple.'

 

A conversation like that tells me instantly that there's no secret found. A person who has found the secret can show it immediately, no matter where he is. There's no such spiritual secret that someone could make use of.

 

(Of course, the above conversation is fair if it's about someones saxophone playing skills, and he can't show his skills until he has picked up his saxophone.)

 

The Dao De Jing clearly shows the secret - it is simply that people don't want to sincerely practice it.

[Marblehead]

What do you mean by that?

I have no freakin' idea.

 

 

Wait.

 

We can consider the human animal the same way we consider the plant.

 

A child born from human animals will itself be a human animal. Just as a germinated seed from a Snapdragon plant will itself be a Snapdragon. It cannot be otherwise.

 

Each birth will be only what it can be. That is one of the principles of Tao.

 

Yes, life is special. But one form, I think, is not more or less special than any other.

 

"A dying plant is just a phenomenon among others." Likewise with the human animal.

 

I think we are not disagreeing with each other, we are just trying to understand each other.

[Marblehead]

That's the thing I appreciated about the perspective shared in this book. The Laozi presented here is highly valued and attacked precisely because his value is seen as a threat.

 

I believe we've discussed how when one is humble, one cannot be humiliated, that one cannot be brought any lower than they believe themselves to be. And too, that maintaining unbroken sincerity upon this lowliness, it begins to grow, even as water flows to the lowest point and gradually begins to fill up.

 

The character presented here has done just that, maintaining unbroken sincerity placed upon humility and trust, simply flowing where he is led unwaveringly. And over time his way began to lead to where it would be seen and confronted, and yet was unassailable.

Yes, that is the paradox. To appear useless. Humility. Sure.

 

But, while appearing useless in our "wu wei" state we are capable of responding to nearly any situation that requires our attention.

 

I try to not value myself except for my own purposes. That means I take good care of myself. I am useful to myself therefore I have the capacity to be useful to others when the need arises.

 

But I will not "humiliate" myself. This word, humiliate, has many negative connotations. But I do try to be humble when allowed to be so.

[Daeluin]

To me, humiliation is a stripping away of layers attached to by ego. Up to us to decide what layers of ego to allow, and yet these very layers will need defending from others. If we claim no layers, what is there to defend?

 

Even in claiming no layers of ego, we are still have a unique momentum within the celestial mechanism. Shedding layers allows us to merge with this momentum. Working within this momentum (fate/destiny) might be better discussed here.

[Marblehead]

So is it the nature of Tao to be humble?

 

I think not.

 

Ever sat through an electrically charged thunderstorm, hurricane or tornado? No humility there.