Sifu Christopher Lee Matsuo, Sifu Jenny Lamb, Sifu Max Christenson

[yugenphoenix]

Ive read some of the discussion in earlier threads about their relationship, but was wondering if anybody could put it succintly how they are related and how their respective systems relate and possible how they are valued, not as in "whose is the best" simply but also, perhaps most complete, best to begin with, safest, ease to learn, etc. I'm looking into Sfu Lamb's dvd but her website alludes to several levels to her system which needs to be learned in person, and I'm in PA she's in Colorado. Now there are over a 100 DVD's supposedly in the Dragon Gate collection perhaps covering all of Sifu Chris's completely. Any thoughts and feedback would be greatly appreciated, Thank you friends.

[Leif]

This is almost impossible to cover...

If you have read past threads, you know a lot.

I'd suggest to go with what/who fits you best.

 

Easiest to learn yet complete - Yigong. You sit and wait for/allow movements to happen.

Second and third level - you don't have to worry about that. My understanding was she doesn't teach it. But if you would be serious about that I'd suggest to enquiry her directly about such possibility. Also, these two levels were likely described in the old Kunlun book (the new one doesn't have it).

 

Sifu Matsuo - great if you are looking for something movement or martial art based. But bagua is likely the hardest of martial arts to learn from DVD. Then if you are not into bagua or martial arts, you don't have to worry about 100s of DVDs as most of them are baguazhang. He also has meditation (vajrasattva mantra), healing (some medical qigong, or kunlun flying needles - likely advanced, tibetan medicine), kuji kiri, jinshin,.....vibrating palms both for healing and martial arts...kuan yin magnetic qigong,...

 

Most complete, Dragon Gate teachings....from meditation to martial arts to healing, bagua which if you practice couple hours per day you can become somewhat proficient in it in 20 years LOL.

 

Safest - the vajrasattva meditation by far .

 

It's all what you need and want. So I'm a bit scared of bagua after overloading with info from here and elsewhere, but found the Teacups DVD from Sifu Matsuo very good investment, but I knew it would be good for my specific condition even if I'm not a baguazhang player.

I liked the simple medical qigong 10 essential movements that is on Sifu Lamb's DVD. One of the better medical qigongs out there IMHO (though it's movements only, there is no theory intent visualizations explanations.....), she wrote something like it being carefully assembled exercises fitting like mala beads, and that's how it feels to me when doing it.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Leif

[Aetherous]

how they are related

 

Max of Kunlun was one of the teachers of Chris of DGS. Jenny and Max shared practices. (To me they are all like Sifus, knowing more and being better than me, but I don't call them that here because they aren't my personal teachers and this isn't such a formal discussion.)

 

how their respective systems relate

 

DGS material sometimes reflects Max's stuff and sometimes doesn't at all. Jenny's yigong/qigong for self healing is very much based on the one practice, and a bunch of side things to make that practice easier on the body or assist the practice in healing the body...it's treated in a qigong or physical healing fashion...and perhaps at times she teaches other practices to people. Kunlun contains lots of practices, many apparently from the Maoshan/Shangqing school...it also has the one practice, but at times it is altered and done in different ways, so as to be slightly different from Jenny's version (which is the original version). Most of those Kunlun practices have alchemy and light body as the focus rather than just physical healing.

 

possible how they are valued, not as in "whose is the best" simply but also, perhaps most complete, best to begin with, safest, ease to learn, etc.

 

I would say that Jenny's DVD seems very very safe for most people. If you want a really solid practice, that would be good. DGS material gets more physical, which is also very good and lacking in too many spiritual arts...you just have to decide if you like their form of exercise, or if you prefer to jog or lift weights instead, for example. Personally, I don't have much patience for bagua or internal types of martial arts. So lets say you practice the Qigong for Self Healing DVD and you also exercise...that would be great in my opinion. Or lets say you're more interested in alchemy and mystical type practices...but you're already healthy and you also keep up with exercise...Kunlun might be a good choice if that's your focus. Or you might find that you aren't so keen on the kunlun/yigong practice and are seeking something else...it's not for everyone. I've personally moved onto other things, although from time to time I return to it.

[liminal_luke]

In my opinion, asking which teacher to go with is a little like asking which treasure you´d like to buy next for your personal collection, the hope diamond or a gold mask from Tutankhamun´s tomb--you´d be very lucky either way.

 

Sifu Jenny Lamb´s video has enough material to last a lifetime. Myself, I would never hesitate to buy and practice from it even if you can never meet her in person. It contains the basic practice that Max teaches as the first level of Kunlun (Max says it´s not the same as what he teaches but I´ve learned both and don´t see the difference myself) plus routines to practice before and after the spontaneous movement. Highly recommended.

 

Max is Max. Beloved by many though by no means all. He´s a charismatic character with a personal style that might or might not mesh with yours. I´ve benefitted a lot from Kunlun, but some do have safety concerns. If you get a chance to study with him, I´d go for it.

 

I´m not so familiar with Dragon Gate material, but believe that Quan Yin Magnetic Qigong is the Sifu Matsuo practice that most closely corresponds to Kunlun/ Yigong. I´ve only done just a little but wow--very powerful indeed. There´s a thread on it so you might look it up if this appeals.

 

In the DVD of Quan Yin Magnetic Qigong Sifu Matsuo talks about the dangers of approaching the practice in an obsessive way. Words of wisdom there. In my opinion, any of these practices can take you as far as you´re willing to go. Any of these practices can be misused and cause harm if not approached with sensitivity, listening to your body, knowing your limits.

 

Liminal

Edited February 2, 2015 by liminal_luke

[yugenphoenix]

Thank you everyone for all your insightful replies, much to mull over now that I'm back from vacation. I am very grateful for you taking the time. I do believe I will starting with Jenny Lamb's DVD and see where it takes me.

[tao stillness]

Jenny Lamb qigong is weak, but her Yi Gong is very powerful. There is no need to work with her in person, the dvd has the simple Yi Gong method. I have only heard great things about Kwan Yin Magnetic Qigong which I hope to order as soon as my medical clairvoyant tests it to see what it would do for me.

[tao stillness]

I forgot to mention that if you want qigong that is easy, safe, does not take a long time to perform, feels wonderful doing it and is powerful for healing and creating energy, then I would suggest you read about Longevity Qigong from Simon Blow. It is my favorite and I have tried about 30 different qigong methods so far.

[tao stillness]

I had my medical clairvoyant test Kwan Yin Magnetic Qigong and he found that the Longevity Qigong is already changing the brain and therefore he saw no reason for me to learn Kwan Yin Magnetic Qigong. He also saw that Longevity Qigong results in more benefits in other areas than Kwan Yin MQ offers. Jenny Lamb is now teaching the higher levels of Yi Gong in person.

[moreira Filho]

On 15/04/2016 at 5:04 AM, tao stillness said:

I had my medical clairvoyant test Kwan Yin Magnetic Qigong and he found that the Longevity Qigong is already changing the brain and therefore he saw no reason for me to learn Kwan Yin Magnetic Qigong. He also saw that Longevity Qigong results in more benefits in other areas than Kwan Yin MQ offers. Jenny Lamb is now teaching the higher levels of Yi Gong in person.

Hi. Do you know if her still teaches the higher levels ? 

[liminal_luke]

The post you responded too was from 2016.  I believe Jenny Lamb is now retired.  Her "Self-healing" dvd which has the basic Yi Gong practice was available for download on her website, Eastern Internal Arts Institute.  Max Christianson, of Kunlun fame, used to teach the 2nd and 3rd levels of Kunlun (his name for Yi Gong) but I'm not sure whether he still does publically.  My own sense is that most people are unlikely to need the higher levels: the basic practice will take a person plenty far.

 

Later edit: Here is an answer to your question from Jenny Lamb's website...

 

Thank you for your feedback about your experience of practicing Yigong level one and desire for advanced level. I have been retired for many years now. I have no plan to teach advanced level since I have not seen advanced students out there. In fact, Yigong level one can take you all the way to your goal if you allow yourself to deepen into it. There is more discovery in the practice than you think. I suggest you to practice at least 45 minutes each time (if you can). In the weekend, when you have time, make yourself available without time limit, but just end naturally to see what you will learn from it. Please continue to share your discoveries.

Edited February 20 by liminal_luke

[johndoe2012]

Level two and three are in the first Kunlun book. 

[Apech]

On 2/20/2024 at 5:07 PM, liminal_luke said:

The post you responded too was from 2016.  I believe Jenny Lamb is now retired.  Her "Self-healing" dvd which has the basic Yi Gong practice was available for download on her website, Eastern Internal Arts Institute.  Max Christianson, of Kunlun fame, used to teach the 2nd and 3rd levels of Kunlun (his name for Yi Gong) but I'm not sure whether he still does publically.  My own sense is that most people are unlikely to need the higher levels: the basic practice will take a person plenty far.

 

Later edit: Here is an answer to your question from Jenny Lamb's website...

 

Thank you for your feedback about your experience of practicing Yigong level one and desire for advanced level. I have been retired for many years now. I have no plan to teach advanced level since I have not seen advanced students out there. In fact, Yigong level one can take you all the way to your goal if you allow yourself to deepen into it. There is more discovery in the practice than you think. I suggest you to practice at least 45 minutes each time (if you can). In the weekend, when you have time, make yourself available without time limit, but just end naturally to see what you will learn from it. Please continue to share your discoveries.

 

"I have not seen advanced students out there."

 

Does she mean us? 

[liminal_luke]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

"I have not seen advanced students out there."

 

Does she mean us? 

 

Oh probably.  Maybe not though because for all I know you're doing advanced Egyptian alchemy in a secluded meditation tower overlooking the sea.  In any case, I wouldn't put all that much stock in her opinion.  Jenny is wonderful of course, a powerful healer, a gifted psychic, a shrewd businesswoman.  But she underestimates the value of a life spent pottering around in the garden.

[tao stillness]

First of all, congratulations on even getting a reply from Jenny because she has been retired. That was gracious of her to reply. My take on her reply is that she has not been bothering to teach higher levels of Yi Gong because she has not found those people who are advanced enough to benefit from the higher levels. Probably bruises some egos, but she is being real.

I found her Yi Gong to be really different. Her method is the only qigong method that has caused me to have spontaneous movements. It was great several years ago to feel arms and legs shaking vigorously on their own due to the Qi flow. The is that the movements did not consistently happen. And where there were no movements, it was really boring sitting there for 25 minutes in a static posture with mudra getting nothing out of it. And now she suggests 45 minute sessions, wow! 

I read Max's book long ago and I was not impressed with what I guess were the advanced levels of Yi Gong. One of which I recall was sitting on a chair with a mudra which resembled holding a steering wheel of a car. At the time, I didn't realize that was actually Yi Gong and that it was an advanced level. I had a Skype session one night with Max where he taught me his version of Yi Gong which was only slightly different than Jenny's version. He told me that his version is how the masters in Shanghai teach it. He was really  laid back during our session and it only took a couple of minutes to teach me  the posture, so I didn't get much out of the session. 

[Sahaja]

I see in my FB feed that  Max is teaching “kunlun” again - this week in San Jose. These days it seems like most any qi gong can produce zi fa gong. 

[tao stillness]

what is Zi fa gong?

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

3 hours ago, tao stillness said:

what is Zi fa gong?

Spontaneous qigong 

[Sahaja]

On 3/18/2024 at 1:12 PM, tao stillness said:

what is Zi fa gong?

It can also be translated as skill from the self.  Meaning it’s something from inside that’s not at the conscious level. It’s usually associated with active or yang qi getting freed up in a practice like releasing tension that hits a blockage in one’s body which results in involuntary movements, involuntary speech or sounds, shaking, involuntary prostrations etc. it can be innocuous or it can be quite dramatic but it’s really only the body opening up under the influence of active qi. Some “masters” get this initiated in their students and describe it as something magical or demonic taking advantage of its unusual involuntary nature to influence students to follow them  However in more serious lineages they treat it as more mundane, more like passing gas, that the teacher politely ignores.  If you are doing qi gong  with the mind absorbed deeply inside there is a good chance something like this will arise. Sometimes it can be triggered by something very simple, like a doing a hand mudra.  It’s just a phase that will pass so it’s best to let it do its thing (open you up more) and not to get too attached to it. Of course there is always a next phase, lol.