shou wu chih

[cmpunk50]

Anyone have any experience with this tonic? Was recommended in THE ESSENCE OF INTERNAL MARTIAL ARTS BY JERRY ALAN JOHNSON. I was thinking about buying this brand:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001E6H4PI/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1423459303&sr=8-1π=AC_QL40&keywords=shou+wu+chih&dpPl=1&dpID=31ijIkOAJgL&ref=plSrch

[cmpunk50]

Anyone?

[Andrei]

What is so hard to google it? The first link I found is this:

 

http://www.herbalshop.com/products/m580024.html

[kevin_wallbridge]

Tonics are for tonifyng. There is no tradition within Chinese medicine of using daily supplements. The herbs and formulae are used to engender changes and are intended to be monitored and modified as the condition evolves. So if you are thinking of taking Heshouwu my question is why? Do you need more liver blood? Do you want blacker hair?

 

Playing with herbs can have some rather serious consequences. Heshouwu is relatively benign, but the whole practice is dangerous. Many of the herbs that people like to take, renshen for example, can create major problems: overstimulating the metabolism or creating the accumulation of pathological metabolites.

 

That being said, if the sides of your tongue are slightly pale, or you have just finished your period, the Heshouwu will probably do you some good. The best daily tonic is take things less seriously and not live with a mind out of equilibrium.

[Taomeow]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Ching-Yuen

 

This herbalist, whose life span of 256 years has been mostly corroborated by various sources (and definitely never proved a false claim), took he shou wu daily for at least over a hundred years (and possibly for much longer) as well as an assortment of other herbs, also taken daily. He outlived 23 wives, commenting regretfully that any one of them could have been his lifelong companion "if only she didn't neglect to take the herbs I told her to take every day."

 

One's mileage may vary when discussing the benefits and dangers of herbs... depends on who you listen to. In the Siberian tradition, e.g., whence Chinese herbal practices originate in prehistory, tonic herbs are thought of as daily bread. Modern research (which dubbed them "adaptogens") undertaken in several European and Asian countries supports this practice. With proper dosages and a habit of listening to one's body, the dangers of doing something wrong with them are comparable to those of, e.g., drinking strong tea late at night -- sure, it's a stimulant and a diuretic and one would be advised against such practice, but it does not mean tea taken without a doctor's approval is all that dangerous, does it?..

 

The overall drift toward portraying herbal medicine as similarly dangerous to allopathic, and similarly not appropriate to have free access to self-administering by lay people, is very disturbing. They are beginning to do this with food too, criminalizing homegrown veggies here and there, more and more. It's all about control folks. There's a marked tendency to frown upon, and undermine and illegalize and otherwise progressively take away every which way, any and all control you might have over your body without someone allowing or disallowing it, or making money off doing it for you. I'd say, with herbs, err on the side of freedom, and if there's a price to pay, you'll probably have to get up in the middle of the night to pay it, then go back to sleep. Good luck.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Taomeow

[Aetherous]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Ching-Yuen

 

This herbalist, whose life span of 256 years has been mostly corroborated by various sources (and definitely never proved a false claim), took he shou wu daily for at least over a hundred years (and possibly for much longer) as well as an assortment of other herbs, also taken daily. He outlived 23 wives, commenting regretfully that any one of them could have been his lifelong companion "if only she didn't neglect to take the herbs I told her to take every day."

 

As an herbalist, he knew what he was doing. Lay people have no idea about diagnosis, or about how Chinese herbs are supposed to be used. It's not a matter of simply taking tonics and then having better health...the opposite can happen.

[Taomeow]

Scotty, lay folks' ignorance about herbs is not a natural state of affairs -- and not a universal one and not an eternal one. Here and now everybody learns about cars and computers and fashions and trends and private lives of movie stars, but it is quite possible to make a conscious choice to learn something else instead.

 

There's many ways to overcome ignorance. E.g., I knew European herbalism quite extensively since childhood (it's traditional to know, in some -- many -- families), and then I started slowly and steadily expanding globally. E.g., for several years, in addition to my own studies, I was a member of assorted internet groups that teach these things. Learn Chinese Herbs, a course conducted by a TCM professional. Edible Wild, mostly Native American lore. To say nothing of other available sources I perused -- books, folk and old medical and a blend (like the Chinese government's Barefoot Doctor guide) and modern research (and not just in English -- there's little there), and picking knowledgeable minds -- e.g., I used to shop at an Indian grocery whose owner was willing to teach me everything about every single item he was selling, and was better than a college course in folk herbalism -- if there was such a course -- and free, merely enthusiastic about encountering an enthusiastic student. Incidentally, one thing he taught me was that the line between herbs and foods, medicinals and edibles, is arbitrary and does not really exist where he comes from. In South India where he comes from, they make a special stew to cure diabetes, and a particular soup to lower blood pressure. And so on.

 

I've observed the same thing in China. They put things like "opens Lungs meridians" into the description of a soup on the menu, and "Kidney tonifying pork with herbs," and what not. They sell packages of herbal medicinals to add to soups -- here too at Asian markets -- seasonal, strengthening defenses against cold or heat or dampness or dryness, very wise, VERY traditional. This is the normal state of affairs, for lay people to know these things. And if they don't, to learn. It's the opposite state that is out of whack, and I wouldn't rush under its banners just because they are unfolded by the paternalistic establishment.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Taomeow

[dawei]

I have taken Fo-Ti (the name I know it as) a few times... general tonic, energy boost feeling. I have not taken it for long periods but usually a few weeks.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Scotty, lay folks' ignorance about herbs is not a natural state of affairs -- and not a universal one and not an eternal one. Here and now everybody learns about cars and computers and fashions and trends and private lives of movie stars, but it is quite possible to make a conscious choice to learn something else instead.

 

There's many ways to overcome ignorance. E.g., I knew European herbalism quite extensively since childhood (it's traditional to know, in some -- many -- families), and then I started slowly and steadily expanding globally. E.g., for several years, in addition to my own studies, I was a member of assorted internet groups that teach these things. Learn Chinese Herbs, a course conducted by a TCM professional. Edible Wild, mostly Native American lore. To say nothing of other available sources I perused -- books, folk and old medical and a blend (like the Chinese government's Barefoot Doctor guide) and modern research (and not just in English -- there's little there), and picking knowledgeable minds -- e.g., I used to shop at an Indian grocery whose owner was willing to teach me everything about every single item he was selling, and was better than a college course in folk herbalism -- if there was such a course -- and free, merely enthusiastic about encountering an enthusiastic student. Incidentally, one thing he taught me was that the line between herbs and foods, medicinals and edibles, is arbitrary and does not really exist where he comes from. In South India where he comes from, they make a special stew to cure diabetes, and a particular soup to lower blood pressure. And so on.

 

I've observed the same thing in China. They put things like "opens Lungs meridians" into the description of a soup on the menu, and "Kidney tonifying pork with herbs," and what not. They sell packages of herbal medicinals to add to soups -- here too at Asian markets -- seasonal, strengthening defenses against cold or heat or dampness or dryness, very wise, VERY traditional. This is the normal state of affairs, for lay people to know these things. And if they don't, to learn. It's the opposite state that is out of whack, and I wouldn't rush under its banners just because they are unfolded by the paternalistic establishment.

 

I completely agree with this. In a traditional family many of these herbs are standard ingredients in foods, many very tasty. If you live in an area in which there is any type of oriental market you can see what Taomeow means about soup mixes, etc., and find Shou Wu Chih for much less and save on shipping.

 

If you are interested in this get yourself a copy of this:

 

Between Heaven and Earth

 

It has a long and detailed self-evaluation questionnaire and also a good introduction to basic Chinese patent medicines and Chinese health cooking with these herbal ingredients.

 

In traditional families taking tonic herbs is standard after the age of forty, it is one of the reasons 80 year old Chinese have black hair. Younger people would not necessarily use tonics, except for specific health problems or as adjuncts to special training, in martial arts or other esoteric disciplines and in these cases expert knowledge, either your own, a teachers or a professional is advised.

 

I have used Shou Wu Chih on and off since 1990, it is very useful and was one of the "successes" that convinced me of the value of Chinese herbal medicine. The value of the self-evaluation that I mentioned above is that you will know whether you should take this or not. Young women could benefit because of blood loss in menstruation, but if they have damp heat, or stagnant liver qi, it could make bleeding and cramping worse. Similarly for men, it can help with preventing or reversing gray hair and you will never need viagra, or anything like that, but if you have liver heat of stagnant liver qi, you should clear that up before using this as it could make liver heat worse making men "horny", but not in a good way, since one will be dispersing the heat at the expense of one's jing. If a male has stagnant liver qi, it could contribute to irritability and depression.

 

This is the type of background information that you need to know, but if you are serious about Chinese esoteric arts, you must study this area and at least become familiar with the Chinese equivalent of first aid and healthy eating and preventive medicine. It will definitely help you.

[Ya Mu]

I know I have most probably previously posted this story but probably not in a few years. It was funny!

http://qigongamerica.blogspot.com/2015/02/in-search-of-he-shou-wu.html

[zerostao]

"Acres and acres of at least 5 varieties of every 5,000+ herbal/animal/mineral substance used in Traditional Chinese Medicine." i woulda just OD'd before i ever left there

 

also, this is taken from someone selling the stuff along with other interesting herbs, so bias noted, bizness is bizness;

 

"The Legend of He Shou Wu…

This root is named after a man who became famous from its use. Neng Zi was born as a weak boy. When he grew up he never married because he was impotent. At the age of 58, one day he got drunk in the forest and fell asleep. He noticed roots that appeared in his mind to be “making love”. He dug these up and later made it into a tonic he could consume.

Within a short period of time he noticed a new energy flowing within his body. He began to feel virile, and could hardly contain his sexual drive. He continued taking He Shou Wu for years which made his grey hair turn black and he fathered many children.

The legend says he lived to 160 years old and fathered 19 sons and daughter. Not bad for starting out with a weak constitution and beginning on the herb at 58."

[Taomeow]

I've been to crazy markets like this -- the last one, in the rain forest in the Amazon. The sellers arrived by boat at dawn, unloaded their fares, and waited for customers to come, also by boat or via the forest trails. As always is the case in the not entirely corrupted and destroyed traditional cultures, there was some distinction between edibles and medicinals of course but only for some of the items -- most served both purposes.

 

There was this one fruit, aguaja, that I got positively addicted to while I was there -- it's the best breakfast I've ever had in my life, and many people, especially women, eat this for breakfast every day. It tastes like a mix of walnuts and grilled cheese, only better. Doesn't grow anywhere else, only in Peru, on humongous high palm trees that like to have a view of the Amazon from where they grow (or even immerse their roots). The medicinal uses are chiefly along the lines of a "female tonic" -- no time limit on how long it can be taken, ideally lifelong daily, it does wonders for womens' reproductive health and also appearance -- you can tell a regular aguaja-for-breakfast eater by her amazing skin that seems to glow from within, shiny perfect hair (without any stylists' efforts or "products" expenditures) and the fact that she doesn't understand what it is you mean if you ask her about "menstrual cramps" or "irregular periods."

 

Well, I went looking online recently. Sure enough, it is now sold as an "herbal supplement" by someone commercially savvy, there's research and all, and it is ungodly expensive... I've no idea if it's even efficient in those capsuled dosages... If I was an entrepreneur, I would try to arrange to import the fruit -- it's WAY superior to bananas, but does not cater to the sweet tooth, so, I don't know if it would gain popularity here... but I would definitely try if it was my destiny to do things of this nature, which I don't think it is.

 

Another one of the medicinal uses of aguaja makes you scratch your head trying to decipher tao's intentions. It is an antidote for the bite of a venomous snake that is otherwise one hundred percent lethal. This local snake has markings on its back the shape and color of the aguaja fruit, and is encountered only where aguaja grows, often swimming in the same waters into which aguaja palms like to dip their roots. I find it mind-blowing but it would take more than a forum post to explain what conclusions I derive from the fact.

[wilfred]

been taking tonic herbs for a fair while now, shou wu is one of the daily ones. seems to have done a lot of good for my sexual organs, hair and noticably increasing creative energy. i see them as extensions to a healthy diet, which will inevitably have all kinds of foods that tonify or nourish jing/chi in various ways. the danger seems to be if you're overdoing something you shouldn't be and aren't particularly aware of it, or are getting a lot of awareness coming online without accompanying equanimity. i'm just starting to use some of the herbs that fall under the category of shen tonics, they're awesome, especially when used along with meditation practice.

recommend the herbs from dragon herbs ('shou wu formula' is a good he shou wu based tonic) or jing tonics, both of those companies are gold standard in my experience. others have been hit and miss, though there seems to be a bigger market for this stuff in the US. be interested to hear what herbs other people here use regularly or even daily? for me it's a shou wu formula, a cordyceps based one, schisandra, goji and ginseng. just getting onto trying some of the yang/shen specific herbs, would also like to cultivate my own reishi if possible, seems like a cool thing to do

Edited February 15, 2015 by wilfred