the location has no center

[Nungali]

.....

Edited February 17, 2015 by Nungali

[Marblehead]

 ....  the boundary is a circle with  an infinite circumference. 

 

(Thats my 2 bobs worth )

How about "... with a dynamic circumference ..."?

[Nungali]

So the universe is expanding.  What is it expanding into?  The only possibility I see is Absolute Nothingness.

 

True that "empty space" is the distance between two objects "in space".  But once you get beyond all objects in the universe and you look for the distance between it and an object further out there is nothing to be found.  There is no distance.

 

 Sure there is .     Take the  'furthest out' object  and just keep going  1 Light year.  There is your distance in the nothingness of space.

 

(Okay I sorta cheated by making the 'other point' with my imagination. ....   but still, I cant see where, in all this ,  imagination is not being used ? ) 

[Marblehead]

 - I gotta stop watching them ... and yelling at the tv.        )

No.  You have to keep watching so that you know what you don't accept as valid.

[Michael Sternbach]

No ... sorry, the big bang did not happen in 3bob's living room. The potential of 3bob's living room happened inside the primal singularity, not the other way around.

Of course, 3bob's living room only existed potentially at the time. But if you ask where in relation to our current Universe the Big Bang happened, 3bob's living room is as good a choice as any other location

Edited February 16, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[Marblehead]

 Sure there is .     Take the  'furthest out' object  and just keep going  1 Light year.  There is your distance in the nothingness of space.

 

(Okay I sorta cheated by making the 'other point' with my imagination. ....   but still, I cant see where, in all this ,  imagination is not being used ? ) 

Yes, you cheated.

[Marblehead]

Of course, 3bob's living room only existed potentially at the time. But if you ask where in relation to our current Universe the Big Bang happened, 3bob's living room is as good a choice as any other location

Good even though I don't agree with it.

[Nungali]

... ooops!

[Nungali]

Of course, 3bob's living room only existed potentially at the time. But if you ask where in relation to our current Universe the Big Bang happened, 3bob's living room is as good a choice as any other location

 

 

Oh no         ... talk about putting the cart before the horse !    (You have not been making tv science shows have you ? )

[Nungali]

Yes, you cheated.

 

 

Yes, but if I said that on a tv science show,  while cooking a pancake out  camping at night , then looked up to the stars in the night sky and drew a picture in the sand with a stick .... then my imaginings would be  valid.  

[Nungali]

What about  0 = 2  ( actually  0 = 2 'things'   .....    0 =   +1  + - 1 )   ...    and 'Supersymmetry ' theory ? 

 

We jump straight from 0  to  duality - forget singularity.

 

Could that be something like Tao   - 0   , Yin / Yang  duality ? 

[Marblehead]

What about  0 = 2  ( actually  0 = 2 'things'   .....    0 =   +1  + - 1 )   ...    and 'Supersymmetry ' theory ? 

 

We jump straight from 0  to  duality - forget singularity.

 

Could that be something like Tao   - 0   , Yin / Yang  duality ? 

Yes, we have to have Singularity; a beginning.  Otherwise we are speaking of the Buddhist concept that the universe is infinite both ways.  (Some Buddhists, that is.)

 

And we can't forget that Tao gave birth to One (Singularity).

[Michael Sternbach]

They are?   I haven;t heard that one before.

That doesn't surprise me because this identification is based on my own synthesis of Spiritual Alchemy, Anthroposophy, and Projective Geometry.

 

You could just as well call them Hadit and Nuit.

 

Not sure if I read some of the above right?  It seemed  as if you are saying the 'small' (do you mean 'sub-atomic'  ? ) world  and the large ' .....  

 

{hmmm ... stuck for a name here .... }

 

 ....  ' world are different  'Universes'  and the 'multiverses'  fit inside each other like Russian dolls ? 

I like that description. Yes, worlds from the very smallest to the very largest scales, inside one another like Russian dolls.

 

The Multiverse is the largest conceivable level, containing many Universes. There is nothing wrong with this assumption in my view, but if you don't like it, you don't need to follow me there.

[3bob]

wow,  this thing is growing exponentially like my weekend beer belly, which doesn't all go away after the weekend is over even if its healthy type beer...

 

(is the shot below even possible?!)

Edited February 17, 2015 by 3bob

[Daeluin]

What about  0 = 2  ( actually  0 = 2 'things'   .....    0 =   +1  + - 1 )   ...    and 'Supersymmetry ' theory ? 

 

We jump straight from 0  to  duality - forget singularity.

 

Could that be something like Tao   - 0   , Yin / Yang  duality ? 

 

0 as written has already borrowed a symbol and a concept from yang, and therefore is not absolute. Certainly we may step from Absolute Nothingness straight into duality. We may do the same from the perspective of yang - it is easy to take anything as a root and see its branches.

 

Are 0 and 1 not both tao? Does 1 come from 0 and return to 0, or do they come from each other and return to what is hidden but not without? When their this-ness has not been expressed in any way, is that the same as 0? Dose not this look back in time necessitate potential?

 

Not the first thread to go into this today, though I posted about 1 and 0 before seeing where that thread had gone. From nothing to multiple expressions in an instant. Happens all the time. People ask about the Chicken or the Egg, looking for linear reference, but creation unfolds in non-linear bursts of synchronistic reflections of precise alingments within creation. The principles are always the same, shaped in new ways depending on which previously created components have entered into an adequately balanced relationship, and a new layer is born of those components.

 

The TaiJi symbol describes this non-linear unfolding simply.

[3bob]

MH and others, It sounds to me like chapter one of the T.T.C. alludes to an absolute and eternal being-ness or source, on the other hand nowhere do I see an alluding to for an absolute nothing or absolute anti-non-source...  granted there is "empty"-ness (in chp 11) but that empty-ness is not empty per-se thus being more like not blocking or getting in the way, also there is "Nothing" (in chap 43) but that nothing is not nothing per-se being that it could alluded to with the term no-thing.  Still or yet that doesn't mean that the idea of two different yet absolute poles doesn't exist in other teachings, yet in that case how could they be termed absolutes?  (with yin and yang not applying being that they are "born" from Tao)

Edited February 17, 2015 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

Granted I fudged a little when speaking of Absolute Nothingness.  You are correct in that I doubt we could find anything in the TTC or the Chuang Tzu that mentions the concept.

 

But I had to put Singularity somewhere.  Therefore I put it right at the center of Absolute Nothingness.  Where is Absolute Nothingness?  It cannot be defined.  So really, where was Singularity?  It cannot be defined.  Where is the universe and its center?  Here and everywhere.

 

Sometimes I use circular logic in order to answer a question that has no answer.

[Marblehead]

Absolute Nothingness (via Nishida):

 

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nishida-kitaro/#AbsNot

This is the first time I have seen the concept (Absolute Nothingness) from a metaphysical point of view.

 

I did like the play with the concepts of "self-awareness" and "self-negation".

[Nungali]

...damn ...  ooops ! 

Edited February 17, 2015 by Nungali

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

The location has no center because there is nowhere that the location is not,

or is it...

 

genewilder11.jpg

 

 

TEE-HEE

[Nungali]

Of course, 3bob's living room only existed potentially at the time. But if you ask where in relation to our current Universe the Big Bang happened, 3bob's living room is as good a choice as any other location

 

True ... then so is my living room 

 

" Hey 3bob,   you are in my spot."

[Nungali]

That doesn't surprise me because this identification is based on my own synthesis of Spiritual Alchemy, Anthroposophy, and Projective Geometry.

 

You could just as well call them Hadit and Nuit.

 

But then I would need a 3rd principle (I suppose one could insert 'factor infinite and unknown' ?

 

Can you outline your syn thesis ? Sounds interesting.

 

 

 

I like that description. Yes, worlds from the very smallest to the very largest scales, inside one another like Russian dolls.

 

The Multiverse is the largest conceivable level, containing many Universes. There is nothing wrong with this assumption in my view, but if you don't like it, you don't need to follow me there.

 

I remember postulating the infinite extensions 'up and down' or 'in and out'  ( sub atomic and deeper  /  Cosmic and beyond ) when I was a young  lad ... watching the birth and death of a Universe ... except I got into trouble for just sitting there and striking matches and watching them burn ... I tried to explain to parents but .... 

 

Have you noticed the 'model' seems reversed when one goes 'sub-atomic' ?

 

(Just playing around here )

 

The model for manifestation 'above' this world (via Kabbalistic principles); a 10 'dimensional model' (some say 11 ) that starts with unity and is based on an ideal trinity , crosses an 'abyss' of 'perception' and manifests in another 7 levels ( sephiroth) with  an 'averse dualistic partner' (qlippoth)  and results in 'manifestation' - the 'world' or 'Universe' ( this <knock knock> 'hard stuff' ) - unity in diverse forms - Malkuth.

 

The model for the dynamics within the components of this world  (which is like transitioning into another 'dimension' ... 'universe ?' (as its physics seem to be different)  is reversed;  the 3 ideal becomes the 3 dimensions, then we cross and abyss of perception and look into matter, Some say another 7 levels - that makes a 10 level model, but some add an 11th to tie it together and each particle has an opposite in duality (Super symmetry theory). 

 

The multiverse Russian Doll idea seems okay IMO ... what I protest against is the version of multiverses they postulated on the TV show I saw; basically; potentials that never happened are included as alternative universes .... IMO they are postulated imaginary worlds.  The whole show seemed a bad explanation of trying to explain 'the now' and what happened to the things that didnt happen.... where did they go ?

 

They didnt go anywhere ... they just didnt happen ... I dont see why they had to happen 'somewhere else'   (except to make some other complex calculations work out     )

Edited February 17, 2015 by Nungali

[Nungali]

wow,  this thing is growing exponentially like my weekend beer belly, which doesn't all go away after the weekend is over even if its healthy type beer...

 

(is the shot below even possible?!)

 

OMG!  There is another universe in there !

[Marblehead]

True ... then so is my living room 

 

" Hey 3bob,   you are in my spot."

Just ask him to roll over.

[3bob]

Just ask him to roll over.

 

I can't roll over since I just found out that there (edit: might be) a darn grey alien with a case of beer is inside my belly, if only Arnold S. could see me now...

Edited February 19, 2015 by 3bob