Marblehead Posted February 24, 2015 true that, but you might not lose consciousness while you are going through the process. also you can born and die within microcosm that you become beyond "yourself" and see now from outside that circle of birth and death of the self. Wait a minute! I had to look to make sure we are in "Taoist Discussions" and not "Buddhist Discussions". I lose consciousness on a regular basis. When I sleep, when I meditate, when I am doing something that is mechanical for me. I know for sure I was not conscious of my existence before I was born. This leads me to believe that I will not be conscious of any existence after I die. Remember, I'm a Materialist (Physicalist). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Wait a minute! I had to look to make sure we are in "Taoist Discussions" and not "Buddhist Discussions". I lose consciousness on a regular basis. When I sleep, when I meditate, when I am doing something that is mechanical for me. I know for sure I was not conscious of my existence before I was born. This leads me to believe that I will not be conscious of any existence after I die. Remember, I'm a Materialist (Physicalist). When you become aware, then energies have reached the head. And then you go unconscious till they reach head again, if they don't get depleted meanwhile so it might not happen so often. thats circlical nature. that doesn't change anything. what needed to do is when you become aware you need to start inner alchemy and discovering things and based on these discoverings you futher your knowledge merit and virtue. Awarness is a starting point. when two things come together something has to happen. there is definite steps. Once done its done for this particular circle and can start working on next step. Edited February 24, 2015 by allinone 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) when you look something naughty, desire might rise in body. When you look at the area between your eyes, space might open and you might recieve spirit. But how you should conscentrate on that spot.. Edited February 24, 2015 by allinone 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 24, 2015 when you look something naughty, desire might rise in body. When you look at the area between your eyes, space might open and you might recieve spirit. But how you should conscentrate on that spot.. Hehehe. I was aware of that first part a long, long time ago. As to the second part, I don't talk much about spirit. But the word/concept is a part of my understanding, it's just that I refer to spirit as universal Chi (qi) energy. To the post above this one, I don't "practice" as such; I just live. But I don't have a problem with what you said. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted February 24, 2015 im hoping to walk on water one day. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 24, 2015 im hoping to walk on water one day. I'm part way there. I can walk in water. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted February 24, 2015 Re: ----- "Would not an enlightened person understand this? "Smarter to realize the preciousness of all this and go the other way - into caring very much, and giving away this supposedly "unimportant" existence into the service of all others."" ----- "Enlightened" is the problem - not really anyone truly knows what this is. Some people think this is someone who has various ideas and skills and realizations associated with what they have read about, and they are looking for those things to assume about someone who can do a handstand without touching the ground, or something like that. Or someone who looks and acts like people expect them to, etc. So "enlightenment" can be seen as a consumer product that consumers should seek out and puchase from a "reliable" vendor. This gets mixed up in the psychological search for missing or unapproving fathers, in the search for status and achievement, super-hero movies, scientists interpreting and trying to sell some imaginary controllable world, and all kind of junk. I see some people here and elsewhere getting mean about debating who is best and reliable vendor of enlightenment and what enlightenment means. Know that there are people practicing and learning and trying to be this for people, trying to get the "best" knowledge and "corner the market". ----- "There is mention of a few Immortals... all being of superb health + intelligence..." ----- Yes - this is a pre-requisite for continuing study, not the end result. The trainings to begin this are missing today almost 100%. The parts remaining are enough to confuse the world. The task is to attain normal human life functioning. THAT is the "super" ability to attain. Doing a million years of qigong, meditations, psychologies, singing mantra, or looking around house for a flashlight and farting sparks wouldn't really produce even this simple result. But without that, impossible to even attain the enlightenment of a simple farmer. Impossible to know what "immortality" really means. -VonKrankenhaus 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Source Posted February 25, 2015 @VonKrankenHausI get put off the moment someone takes such a authoritarian approach, The task is to attain normal human life functioning. THAT is the "super" ability to attain. Doing a million years of qigong, meditations, psychologies, singing mantra, or looking around house for a flashlight and farting sparks wouldn't really produce even this simple result. Ok, so what does produce this result? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) immortality could mean your power to hold on to your position and not change. And the type of immortality is what you are holding to. Adaptation means your will to change and evolve, everything is in constant change. The speed of adaptation. I doubt your body will become imperishable when you don't have special conditions to evolve to a such thing. there is radiation eating bacters. in body there is all kinds of vapours and reactions, what can be learnt to ignite and grow. Vapour rises then you can take its essence and it drops to the cauldron for futher processes etc. Edited February 25, 2015 by allinone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted February 25, 2015 Re: ----- "I get put off the moment someone takes such a authoritarian approach," ----- Funny - that's when I usually get put on. Never be confused - there is only one "authority" in truth. So putting on, putting off - it's all okay. Do not mind me, as I am just one person trying to write about things. Even if I am succeed in being a total idiot, we are really just discussing qi cultivation just now. I only writing anything because I just spent 45 years at it, and I saw some things, I now try to describe with others. But - In terms of what does produce "the" effect of normal human life, we would first need to establish, so we are communicating well - what is a human being? And then we will need to establish - what is normal living for human being? To see why we would do this, we need also establish - why would this happen? What is causing this? Once we establish these, it easy to look at where we are in that right now, to judge for ourselves what discrepancies we may uncover, which may also be showing where our actions need to go. Without knowing details to these questions - what could we possibly accomplish, and how would we know? Normal human life is the most advanced physical and spiritual cultivation available as living beings on Earth. Even school biology textbook writes that this is so. Evolutionist believes this, and so forth. It's simple - so what can we do with it? Maybe we can answer - Pre-heaven qi, lost forever? Light Body? I'm just adding to this dialog towards finding out, and starting with the most basic part of these questions. -VonKrankenhaus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Source Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) You just disregarded all of the spiritual traditions and their vast amounts of experimentation, according to you every spiritual technique 'will not produce results' in terms of what many are looking for here. You still haven't answered my question:"Ok, so what does produce this result?"Avoiding the question will not help you once my bullshit alarm goes off Surely a simple result, has a simple answer?You can flaunt your x amounts of years of darkness training and forest living as much as you want, what good has it done if you can't answer a simple question, yet posing as a spiritual figure in posession of deeper knowledge? Edited February 25, 2015 by Source Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted February 26, 2015 Re: ----- "You just disregarded all of the spiritual traditions and their vast amounts of experimentation, according to you every spiritual technique 'will not produce results' in terms of what many are looking for here." ----- Not "disregard", but work with for a long time, in traditional settings and relationships. Not in terms of "what many here are looking for", but in terms I stated as "normal human life". And no, those traditions, the recent ones, are mainly compensations for various losses of normal human life through the ages. They are techniques to recover or retain balance and functionality. Older than that, the techniques are more like catalogs. Older than that, techniques and living are the same thing - no catalog needed, no sudden adjustments, etc - a very different time than now. Right now, the modern aspects causing loss of normal human life functionality are taken as everyday necessities. ----- "You can flaunt your x amounts of years of darkness training and forest living as much as you want, what good has it done if you can't answer a simple question, yet posing as a spiritual figure in posession of deeper knowledge?" ----- That is so crazy - I like that writing very much. (I may get a tattoo of this). I can answer your question in great detail. Not "flaunt". Describe, mention - to establish context, where what I write is coming from. If you are really interested in knowing what would produce the result more towards normal human living, especially towards the further step of really exploring what that means, then first consider the questions I posted just before about what is a human being, how does this happen, and why. Doing this would establish more what normal might be. Then we could look at some things in the way of normal human living, what obstacles, what factors are diminishing human life and potentials. Doing this would make any subsequent action more sensible. Further, after those, we could see practical ways of regaining balance and functionality even in modern destruction. Does that seem reasonable way to proceed? -VonKrankenhaus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) ra.w veganism! all the answers to the universe are in this apple Edited February 26, 2015 by eye_of_the_storm 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Source Posted February 26, 2015 Just watched this minutes ago: Synchronicity 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted March 3, 2015 Wait a minute! I had to look to make sure we are in "Taoist Discussions" and not "Buddhist Discussions". I lose consciousness on a regular basis. When I sleep, when I meditate, when I am doing something that is mechanical for me. I know for sure I was not conscious of my existence before I was born. This leads me to believe that I will not be conscious of any existence after I die. Remember, I'm a Materialist (Physicalist). Don't rely on memory to judge if there is life or not after you die or did you had any past existence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 3, 2015 Don't rely on memory to judge if there is life or not after you die or did you had any past existence. At my age, to rely on memory would be an error. Based on all I have seen during my lifetime there is no life after death. No, I didn't have a past existence. I believe that no one has. And I have seen no proof to the contrary. But energy is real. I sometimes call energy "Chi" and I suppose soon I will have to adapt to calling it "Qi". It's all the same stuff though, regardless of what we call it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted March 3, 2015 At my age, to rely on memory would be an error. Based on all I have seen during my lifetime there is no life after death. No, I didn't have a past existence. I believe that no one has. And I have seen no proof to the contrary. But energy is real. I sometimes call energy "Chi" and I suppose soon I will have to adapt to calling it "Qi". It's all the same stuff though, regardless of what we call it. Not believing in past life or believing doesn't change anything. In other place and time you will have some other kind of view. You don't see the thing what does not change despite of whatever you do or think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 3, 2015 Not believing in past life or believing doesn't change anything. In other place and time you will have some other kind of view. You don't see the thing what does not change despite of whatever you do or think? The only thing that doesn't change is the essence of Tao. All else does change. Whether I believe or not does not change physical reality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted March 4, 2015 The only thing that doesn't change is the essence of Tao. All else does change. Whether I believe or not does not change physical reality. hmm, the sense of self is same for everyone i guess. You will disappear, but the sense of self will appear again, but it can be on a form of fear or anger that it will shadow the self sense too much and don't have a change for liberation or attaining the Tao. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 4, 2015 You lost me with that post. I don't accept the concept of reincarnation as valid so I can't talk about that. "Self" arises with self-awareness regardless of how accurate our understandings are. I watched a program on TV last night. A spider does not know it is a spider. It just is. Total wu wei. (Instinctual living.) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) You lost me with that post. I don't accept the concept of reincarnation as valid so I can't talk about that. "Self" arises with self-awareness regardless of how accurate our understandings are. I watched a program on TV last night. A spider does not know it is a spider. It just is. Total wu wei. (Instinctual living.) Same way like a spider, you don't know that you are human. Spider knows who he is, that is what makes him a spider.. Edited March 4, 2015 by allinone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Same way like a spider, you don't know that you are human. Spider knows who he is, that is what makes him a spider.. Oh!, NO, No, no. I know what type of animal I am. I have a brain capable of thought; a spider does not. Hehehe. No, what makes a spider a spider is its spiderness. It knows nothing. No thought capability (I've known some humans like that). Pure instinct. It doesn't even know it is supposed to eat insects, it just does it. If a mother spider dies after laying her eggs, when the babies hatch they will eat their mother. (Instinct for survival.) BTW I hope we haven't lost our Chi. Edited March 4, 2015 by Marblehead 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NotVoid Posted March 4, 2015 What if the more certain we are of things and concepts and ideas, etc., the less we really understand? What if the ego loves to play at being emperor? What if the ego is leading us down the garden path? What if cultivation is not an intellectual exercise at all? What if symbolism is just used for convenience sake? What if... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 4, 2015 What if Chi is what give the universe its consciousness? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
