Marblehead Posted February 18, 2015 Yes, we can travel much further and faster with our imagination than we can with any other mode of transportation. Remembering a story from The Chuang Tzu, (paraphrased) there were three (maybe four) friends who had been friends for many years. All were in old age now and one had fallen ill and would likely die. One asked him if he regretted that he was about to die. The ill friend replies, "How could I regret my life? Tao gave me birth, Tao will give me death. This is the way of nature." 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaoZiDao Posted February 18, 2015 "How could I regret my life? Tao gave me birth, Tao will give me death. This is the way of nature." I don't really know a great deal about Zhuangzi, so I cannot really comment on how correct or incorrect the translations are here. What I can say though: "Tao will give me death. This is the way of nature." This is the way of creation and destruction, in other words "ordinary Dao" not Da Dao. Great Dao that Laozi speaks of is the way of reversal of nature, taking destiny into your own hands, not nature controlling your destiny, to take hold of it and claim true freedom. Ie: restoring life, returning youth (all are some practical effects of restoring Yuanqi). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) What are prenatal Qi, Yuan Qi etc chemical (or any scientific) names or they are chemical processes? since body is biological its fair that there are such things. Edited February 18, 2015 by allinone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) What are prenatal Qi, Yuan Qi etc chemical (or any scientific) names or they are chemical processes? since body is biological its fair that there are such things. Since they are associated with the kidneys, I consider the adrenal hormones their biochemical equivalent. The adrenal hormones are crucial to our strength and vitality. Edited February 18, 2015 by Michael Sternbach Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted February 18, 2015 What are prenatal Qi, Yuan Qi etc chemical (or any scientific) names or they are chemical processes? since body is biological its fair that there are such things. I think that most easily we could identify chemical (scientific) processes associated (triggered) with the acquisition of pre-heaven Qi (and thus rejuvenation), rather than looking for pre-heaven Qi directly. But is rejuvenation really possible? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 18, 2015 This is the way of creation and destruction, in other words "ordinary Dao" not Da Dao.Great Dao that Laozi speaks of is the way of reversal of nature, taking destiny into your own hands, not nature controlling your destiny, to take hold of it and claim true freedom. Ie: restoring life, returning youth (all are some practical effects of restoring Yuanqi). I am in agreement with you. But we must never forget that there are some things about life we have no control over. This is nature. The processes exist for all. Our free will determines how we will experience the processes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaoZiDao Posted February 18, 2015 some things about life we have no control over. This is nature. "way of reversal of nature" going against nature in a sense, I think your not understanding the importance of this statement. This is the way of Daoist Alchemy. All things in life you have control over... "My destiny is inside me, it is not in heaven" You're responsible for all things in your life, all actions, all reactions, all interactions, health, sickness, wealth, its all fate for ordinary people. Alchemy makes it possible to "change your fate". 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaoZiDao Posted February 18, 2015 "There are a great many reasons for studying what Daoist have said in the past. One is that we cannot separate the history of Daoism from that of humanity. Daoism is largely discussion about matters on which few ancient Daoist masters are quite certain, and majority of the world hold opposite opinions. As knowledge increases, the sciences get greatly developed. The study of Daoism should make our own ideas flexible. We are all of us apt to take certain general ideas for granted, and call them common senses. We should learn that Taoist have held quite different ideas and that our own have started as very original guesses of Daoism. But the Daoism is really a vital key in the process of the survival of the fittest. " "Daoist believes that the future depends on ourselves" - Master Dongyang 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) LaoZiDao, Although some traditionalists wouldn't like to hear this, what you are saying here is in full agreement with the teachings of Seth, an entity channelled by the famous psychic Jane Roberts. Seth emphasized, over and over again, that we ourselves create the reality of our life, based on our beliefs. But I have never before heard this stated so clearly by a Daoist. Do you know any Daoist texts which elaborate on this, either by Master Dongyang or somebody else? Edited February 18, 2015 by Michael Sternbach Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Source Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) If you obtain enlightenment that means the pineal gland is opened up - the pineal gland is the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality (Pre-birth qi). So with an opened pineal gland then you can access the Emptiness that has unified energy of spirit-vitality or Prenatal shen-qi energy and with that access you can then restore the energy. The book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality teaches how to do this - basically if you start from the Emptiness as a philosophy then you can rebuild that connection of Prenatal Spirit (Yuan Shen) as the front channel of the small universe descending from the CAvity of Spirit (the heart) with the Prenatal Vitality (Yuan Qi) as the back channel of the small universe. If you have "evil thoughts" this causes the Yuan Qi of the pineal gland to be triggered and sent down the spine which then converts the Yuan Jing into fluid for reproduction. So that is what must be reversed by focus on the Emptiness. The "evil thoughts" also occur by the Yuan Shen going out of the eyes via the heart - the Yuan Shen and Yuan Qi both originate in the heart from the two sides of the heart. So this original unity gets separated in the postnatal breathing. You can study the Taoist Yoga book for more details. This interestingly enough coincides with a reading Edgar Cayce gave: "Edgar Cayce observed, "Keep the pineal gland operating and you won't grow old - you will always be young!" This sentiment was also expressed in another important reading on longevity (900-465)." Edited February 18, 2015 by Source 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted February 18, 2015 Re: ----- "If you obtain enlightenment that means the pineal gland is opened up - the pineal gland is the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality (Pre-birth qi). So with an opened pineal gland then you can access the Emptiness that has unified energy of spirit-vitality or Prenatal shen-qi energy and with that access you can then restore the energy. The book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality teaches how to do this - basically if you start from the Emptiness as a philosophy then you can rebuild that connection of Prenatal Spirit (Yuan Shen) as the front channel of the small universe descending from the CAvity of Spirit (the heart) with the Prenatal Vitality (Yuan Qi) as the back channel of the small universe." ----- That won't un-calcify the pineal gland. Old texts were not written for modern people who have been drinking and bathing in fluoridated water, consuming cadmium-laced drinks and chocolates, eating pure sodium chloride, or staying indoors from the sun at computers and developing vitamin D deficiencies. Doing this for real, measurable with x-rays, will require many years of dietary and "lifestyle" changes, and then up to 7+ years of darkness training. I don't know if anyone is teaching this, but this is more like what it would take to recover real pineal gland form and functionality. Any form of just meditation, with no changes to the calcification that modern living is causing, would not result in much "opening up" of the pineal gland. -VonKrankenhaus 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) Re: ----- "If you obtain enlightenment that means the pineal gland is opened up - the pineal gland is the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality (Pre-birth qi). So with an opened pineal gland then you can access the Emptiness that has unified energy of spirit-vitality or Prenatal shen-qi energy and with that access you can then restore the energy. The book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality teaches how to do this - basically if you start from the Emptiness as a philosophy then you can rebuild that connection of Prenatal Spirit (Yuan Shen) as the front channel of the small universe descending from the CAvity of Spirit (the heart) with the Prenatal Vitality (Yuan Qi) as the back channel of the small universe That won't un-calcify the pineal gland. Old texts were not written for modern people who have been drinking and bathing in fluoridated water, consuming cadmium-laced drinks and chocolates, eating pure sodium chloride, or staying indoors from the sun at computers and developing vitamin D deficiencies. Doing this for real, measurable with x-rays, will require many years of dietary and "lifestyle" changes, and then up to 7+ years of darkness training. I don't know if anyone is teaching this, but this is more like what it would take to recover real pineal gland form and functionality. Any form of just meditation, with no changes to the calcification that modern living is causing, would not result in much "opening up" of the pineal gland. -VonKrankenhaus What proof can you offer regarding calcification of the pineal gland. Proof not hearsay. Edited February 18, 2015 by ralis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Source Posted February 18, 2015 Going in celibate with meditation would heal 'latent diseases' in the body as preparation for the work. Who knows if this covers a calcified pineal gland. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted February 18, 2015 You could use vibrational remedies (flower essences and others) besides meditation practices to restore the pineal gland faster. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted February 18, 2015 Re: ----- "What proof can you offer regarding calcification of the pineal gland. Proof not hearsay." ----- There is much in writing about the pineal gland. Rick Strassman might be a good source of some ideas. There is also a lot of medical documentation and x-rays/scans of pineal glands in various states of disrepair that you could find online. My own writing derives from around 40 years of study and practice, including two runs of extensive darkness training - one lasting 3 years some years ago, and another over 13 years more recently. The cultivation I have done has changed me, in many ways. That "proves" nothing, but it is really something. I have nothing to "prove" here, but I am writing directly about my experiences on topics in which I have experience. Me standing here is what I am referring to, not to points in an argument. I have been out of society for several years, including time in a forest living, and my posting here is in hope of raising back my communication ability to at some point be able to show others what I have learned. So I am still experimenting with ways of wording, and I have some help on that, my use of language in writing. Sometimes I can get it very good, very "professional", but if anything I write seems not clear, just ask questions about it and I will add or refine more ways to express. -VonKrankenhaus 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted February 18, 2015 Re: ----- "You could use vibrational remedies (flower essences and others) besides meditation practices to restore the pineal gland faster." ----- Yes. Especially including food. Herbs alone, with no real change in how we take in the overall environment as food, are like a "one step forward, two steps back" proposition, in that the herbs are correcting what is being "uncorrected" by a person's diet. In terms of fluoride, there are plants that help eliminate this. Even common herbs like cilantro do have this action. But if intake is not stopped in drinking, cooking, bathing, medicines, etc, then we can see that the effectiveness of such plant remedies would be less effective than a total approach which removes as much as possible the sources of hardening and calcification. -VonKrankenhaus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 18, 2015 "way of reversal of nature" going against nature in a sense, I think your not understanding the importance of this statement. This is the way of Daoist Alchemy. All things in life you have control over... "My destiny is inside me, it is not in heaven" You're responsible for all things in your life, all actions, all reactions, all interactions, health, sickness, wealth, its all fate for ordinary people. Alchemy makes it possible to "change your fate". You are giving me too much responsibility. My genes, my early environment, my teachers, and on and on hold part of the responsivility for what I have become. I do understand what you are saying it's just that I think it is an extreme position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blue eyed snake Posted February 18, 2015 ----- That won't un-calcify the pineal gland. Old texts were not written for modern people who have been drinking and bathing in fluoridated water, consuming cadmium-laced drinks and chocolates, eating pure sodium chloride, or staying indoors from the sun at computers and developing vitamin D deficiencies. Doing this for real, measurable with x-rays, will require many years of dietary and "lifestyle" changes, and then up to 7+ years of darkness training. I don't know if anyone is teaching this, but this is more like what it would take to recover real pineal gland form and functionality. Any form of just meditation, with no changes to the calcification that modern living is causing, would not result in much "opening up" of the pineal gland. -VonKrankenhaus I would like to know more of this than the broad outline you give here. Could you please give some more details of what in your opinion would be good for decalcifying, and which influences promote the calcifying? happily I live in a country where water is not fluoridized ( thanks to ONE familydoctor who has made himself a real pain in the ass for people who were all for it ) ------------------ we're going off topic maybe this thread can be split 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted February 18, 2015 Re: ----- "I would like to know more of this than the broad outline you give here. Could you please give some more details of what in your opinion would be good for decalcifying, and which influences promote the calcifying?" ----- Yes. I will post as much about it as anyone wants me to - but I must go right now, and be back to this thread later today to post more about this. Just pineal calcification, or darkness training in relation to the pineal gland? -VonKrankenhaus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted February 18, 2015 That won't un-calcify the pineal gland. Old texts were not written for modern people who have been drinking and bathing in fluoridated water, consuming cadmium-laced drinks and chocolates, eating pure sodium chloride, or staying indoors from the sun at computers and developing vitamin D deficiencies. Doing this for real, measurable with x-rays, will require many years of dietary and "lifestyle" changes, and then up to 7+ years of darkness training. I don't know if anyone is teaching this, but this is more like what it would take to recover real pineal gland form and functionality. Any form of just meditation, with no changes to the calcification that modern living is causing, would not result in much "opening up" of the pineal gland. -VonKrankenhaus Spot-on. I'm very thankful that you decided to come in from the forest :-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted February 18, 2015 Just pineal calcification, or darkness training in relation to the pineal gland? both Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaoZiDao Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) LaoZiDao, Although some traditionalists wouldn't like to hear this, what you are saying here is in full agreement with the teachings of Seth, an entity channelled by the famous psychic Jane Roberts. Seth emphasized, over and over again, that we ourselves create the reality of our life, based on our beliefs. But I have never before heard this stated so clearly by a Daoist. Do you know any Daoist texts which elaborate on this, either by Master Dongyang or somebody else? based on our belief is not really what is being said. There is reason why the word "believes" is used, more to soften to tone to be more welcoming to outsiders. If it was said as Daoist know for sure this is how it works and all others are wrong, its not so welcoming for others with differnt backgrounds who are intersted in Daoism, more likely to deter some from wanting to know more. Its more discussing it as a concept for public to more easily understand. Neidan changes fate and not based on beliefs.. I have not really explained myself here very well, if at all. I'll try come back to clarify later. "To hold the key to your life means to master natural power and natural power is creative power, this is the internal elixir" Master Dong Yang Edited February 19, 2015 by LaoZiDao 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MooNiNite Posted February 19, 2015 Maybe there is immortality of the light body, but not the physical one. Not like I know. well that is a given, pretty much the whole point i think, besides everything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MooNiNite Posted February 19, 2015 If you obtain enlightenment that means the pineal gland is opened up - the pineal gland is the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality (Pre-birth qi). So with an opened pineal gland then you can access the Emptiness that has unified energy of spirit-vitality or Prenatal shen-qi energy and with that access you can then restore the energy. The book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality teaches how to do this - basically if you start from the Emptiness as a philosophy then you can rebuild that connection of Prenatal Spirit (Yuan Shen) as the front channel of the small universe descending from the CAvity of Spirit (the heart) with the Prenatal Vitality (Yuan Qi) as the back channel of the small universe. If you have "evil thoughts" this causes the Yuan Qi of the pineal gland to be triggered and sent down the spine which then converts the Yuan Jing into fluid for reproduction. So that is what must be reversed by focus on the Emptiness. The "evil thoughts" also occur by the Yuan Shen going out of the eyes via the heart - the Yuan Shen and Yuan Qi both originate in the heart from the two sides of the heart. So this original unity gets separated in the postnatal breathing. You can study the Taoist Yoga book for more details. The question then is why do masters die if they are enlightened? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted February 19, 2015 based on our belief is not really what is being said. There is reason why the word "believes" is used, more to soften to tone to be more welcoming to outsiders. If it was said as Daoist know for sure this is how it works and all others are wrong, its not so welcoming for others with differnt backgrounds who are intersted in Daoism, more likely to deter some from wanting to know more. Its more discussing it as a concept for public to more easily understand. Neidan changes fate and not based on beliefs.. I have not really explained myself here very well, if at all. I'll try come back to clarify later. "To hold the key to your life means to master natural power and natural power is creative power, this is the internal elixir" Master Dong Yang Certainly, the psychological and even physiological changes that internal alchemy can induce go beyond a simple change of one's belief system. Yet I would say that they go hand in hand with the latter. And based on your post to Marblehead, you seem to agree that individuals create (or significantly contribute to) their own life experiences according to their internal processes. Are you with me so far? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
