Pre-Heaven Qi, lost forever?

[LaoZiDao]

Certainly, the psychological and even physiological changes that internal alchemy can induce go beyond a simple change of one's belief system. Yet I would say that they go hand in hand with the latter. And based on your post to Marblehead, you seem to agree that individuals create (or significantly contribute to) their own life experiences according to their internal processes. Are you with me so far?

 

Define "internal processes"

[nestentrie]

Too many people treat this like a video game.

[Michael Sternbach]

Define "internal processes"

Thoughts and emotions, both conscious and subconscious.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[Source]

@LaoZiDao


Does the philosophy of your school include merit, as in having enough positive karma in order to progress in Neidan?

Or is correct training the only requirement?

[blue eyed snake]

Re:

-----

"I would like to know more of this than the broad outline you give here.

 

Could you please give some more details of what in your opinion would be good for decalcifying, and which influences promote the calcifying?"

-----

 

Yes. I will post as much about it as anyone wants me to - but I must go right now, and be back to this thread later today to post more about this.

 

Just pineal calcification, or darkness training in relation to the pineal gland?

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Both,

darkness training didn't ring a bell with me at first, but I do remember that when I was younger I had a very good nightsight and looking back, that nightsight left me about the same time that 'seeing' other things left me. so it does interest me.

 

Looking forward to your post.

Edited February 19, 2015 by blue eyed snake

[vonkrankenhaus]

First I give some background, the trajectory of my training experience regarding qi cultivation and darkness training and living:

 

I studied gongfu and qigong starting in early 70s in a traditional southern shaolin-derived family style. This included some blindfolded qigong/dream/thinking methods done at night, and some advanced qigong projection techniques. I first learned what dark training was in around 1975.

 

I practiced for around 15-20 years, including learning from additional teachers, before doing extended (longer than a few days at a time) darkness training the first time. It was nearly 3 years. This improved my psychic ability such that I became an in-demand professional psychic for some time. One of my teachers was able to impart several essential methods to me that I now understand to be missing from most other practices and systems, and which I have spent about 35 years subsequently experimenting and perfecting. These methods deal with intake/expression of the environment and ways of living and dying.

 

Around 2002 I began another run of darkness training using full training methods, and this has been going, with minor breaks, since then. Part of this training, about a year, was done living in a forest outdoors, studying and training with weather, wild plants, and many wild animals.

 

This training has gone for the majority of my life, and has changed me very much from what I might've been and was before starting. I clearly saw this as my trajectory since early childhood, and sought out the specific teachers to help me assemble it. Looking back now, I am speechless and amazed at what has happened.

 

The skills I have developed are the basis of my entire life, and are responsible in every thing I have done.

 

Very recently I began borrowing a computer to look online and communicate. I saw that some people like Mantak Chia are teaching some darkness training ideas that I never saw published before, and some of this matches my training and experience (and some does not, and seems like he is guessing). This made me interested to see if other qigong people today have experienced good training and skills - so I sign up here and other places.

 

Currently, I have organized my training into a family system which I am guiding 13 of my family in closed training.

 

Going further, I can explain more detail about my experience and study about the pineal gland and decalcification, and what drakness training actually accomplishes and how.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[allinone]

  its easy to detect if you are doing right, one step leads to another, and its virtue what is making the shift to next step. Even after first breakthrough your intuition or knowledge rises and not long after that futher step will be known intuitevely* what wouldn't have possible to do without previous step.

 

basically virtue is something how you interpret old says(for an example), meanings behind words. Meaning behind consciousness.

its possible to see through where person could be in his progress. 

 

And imho its requiered first breakthrough and person is on the go, that could be one reason why is not heard much exact details what to do higher stages.

 

By the way Bible is rich with info for understanding alchemy and virtue.

Edited February 19, 2015 by allinone

[allinone]

perhaps pineal gland is the organ, since it regulates sleep, i wikied. When you wake up then you can even more become wake up by will(fire i think), after "self realization". 

 

when you look at the space or in front of you then this area is connected to water i think, sexual organs, desires.

 

Before self realization:

connecting both eyes and concentrating on that space in front of you- focuspoint where both eyes are joined and relaxed, its natural. Maintaining that point during the day, it becomes habit, and in sitting practice space opens up or cristallizes after little bit more intense/longer concentration on that point, it might happen several times and from there you get into next step. Then energies will start rising almost on its on, when they are risen far enough you can start sense the self(who i am) and when you stibilze the mind you collapse into it(several ways how to say it).

 

when stimulating self energies, then its rising effect or speeding up, when space in front of you you connect energies to lower areas, energies will run down.

 

there are layers, more than one way to cultivate emptiness, desires,thinking etc.

 

There is no secret teachings, all written in different books.

Edited February 19, 2015 by allinone

[Riyue]

Is Pre-Heaven Qi lost forever?

 

Is it possible to replenish it?

 

Many say no, but is that absolute?

 

Even if one cultivates the light body for example. 

 

In system of Fan Huan Gong - in the first poem describing the first figure it is said:

Practicing this figure  -- Qi will  actualizing  Xian Tian - ...

 

返還功

一氣三清

 偈曰

 一氣三清透頂門，任期百脈自調勻

 周身輾轉舒經洛，炁在先天法自通。

[allinone]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin#mediaviewer/File:NorepinephrineDopamineSerotonin.png

made by Nikpapag

[allinone]

im thinking that virtue is also a skill of activating hormones and neurotransmitters. Yin goes over to yang and vice versa. recievers transmitters, emitters..nice stuff.

[allinone]

 

The "light body" is highly refined pre heaven qi IMO .

 

 

 

Many stars, Tao, Nature, are pre heaven energies. Earth is post heaven energy i would say.

However how does one reach the pre heaven energy? By refining of the post heaven.

 

heavenly could be oxygen, earthly is carbondioxide. 

[LaoZiDao]

@LaoZiDao

 

Does the philosophy of your school include merit, as in having enough positive karma in order to progress in Neidan?

 

Or is correct training the only requirement?

 

Correct training.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"The question then is why do masters die if they are enlightened?"

-----

 

In terms of advanced cultivation, this question is like asking why the placenta falls off and dries up as a baby is born.

 

Some masters, upon realizing what "immortality" really is, will do all kinds of things that do not produce "good" results in the eyes of other people. They don't really care at that point. And they get sick and die too, but they don't really care about it.

 

This human body is the placenta that is developing our spirit body from the half-light/half-dark air world into the all-light spirit world.

 

They see this, initially, and lose some care for worldly concerns that this "placenta" encounters.

 

Smarter to realize the preciousness of all this and go the other way - into caring very much, and giving away this supposedly "unimportant" existence into the service of all others.

 

Not "morally" or "ethically" this is better, but functionally this is better.

 

So those master who age, get sick, and die - they are free, and they can do that, and they have fun, but it is not really advanced person doing this. Just more advanced than the average person today.

 

No matter - we are all going the same place, all doing the same thing.

 

I applaud those dead and still living masters, and everyone else.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Marblehead]

No matter - we are all going the same place, all doing the same thing.

 

I applaud those dead and still living masters, and everyone else.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Amen.

[soaring crane]

So those master who age, get sick, and die - they are free, and they can do that, and they have fun, but it is not really advanced person doing this. Just more advanced than the average person today.

 

No matter - we are all going the same place, all doing the same thing.

 

I applaud those dead and still living masters, and everyone else.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

would you agree there's a level of faith involved? I don't mean belief in something or other. I mean profound faith in the way things are going to turn out, and that they're going to turn out good. It's hard for me to articulate and I'd appreciate your reaction to what I wrote. Thanks (and I want to reiterate how happy I am that you came in from the forest)

[MooNiNite]

Well the idea is that they merge with their primordial spirit, or they realize their god-self. idk lots of different labels for the same experience

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"would you agree there's a level of faith involved? I don't mean belief in something or other. I mean profound faith in the way things are going to turn out, and that they're going to turn out good. It's hard for me to articulate and I'd appreciate your reaction to what I wrote"

-----

 

I think it is the faith that comes in seeing reality, something like our faith that it is sunny when we walk outside in the morning and just see it.

 

But, the response to this is more like what I was writing about. That is going more towards issues of "Maturity" and "Virtue".

 

Just know that these masters are responding to something very like same thing that other masters are seeing and then devoting their lives to service to all beings, and so forth.

 

Both are "humble", but in very different ways.

 

Individual human being knows what way of response is best for them, for their dream. That is also Faith - the faith in our dream, our image, which we are recieving and manifesting, and which is appearing and disappearing eternally to become ever the same.

 

So those masters, maybe they have eyebags, maybe go really fat, chasing girlies - they are fun, but not Virtuous maybe. Maybe not so mature for what they ended up seeing.

 

Also - seeing Universe and percieving distant image doesn't itself make a person know exactly good way to drive a car, for example, or play video games and cure cancer, etc.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[soaring crane]

So those masters, maybe they have eyebags, maybe go really fat, chasing girlies - they are fun, but not Virtuous maybe. Maybe not so mature for what they ended up seeing.

 

Also - seeing Universe and percieving distant image doesn't itself make a person know exactly good way to drive a car, for example, or play video games and cure cancer, etc.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

that jibes very well with how I perceive this, thank you again.

 

The response you wrote about, maturity and virtue, would you say they're identifying aspects of faith? Do you know what I mean? Can someone who has faith be identified by his maturity and virtue in the way a house painter can be identified by his speckled paper cap, likewise someone who has developed faith will be identifiable through his maturity and virtue the way a house painter is going to end up wearing one of those caps.

 

Another question:

 

Would you expect the people who have arrived at that point to be able to tell others how to reach it? Also, would they even recognize it themsleves? (the house painter no longer applies here, lol)

 

Or, just the opposite, because it's so ingrained, would they not even be aware of it? And therefore not really able to identify it in themselves, in the way the average lifeform on Earth isn't able to describe gravity (I think that's an acccurate metaphor for this, not sure).

 

Thank you for your impressions. Please don't feel under pressure to provide long, intricate answers. I'm just interested in your basic view of this stuff.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"The response you wrote about, maturity and virtue, would you say they're identifying aspects of faith?"

-----

 

No, they are not necessary. This is the thing with those masters - seeing some truth or gaining some sensitivity, via Virtue, with Faith as impetus, does not guarantee any particular response.

 

And, initially, seeing beyond good and evil means they are the same thing to many masters.

 

The continuation of Virtue will lead to maturity and understanding, via good or via evil, no matter. Not everyone goes that far.

 

This is something westerners have a hard time with, being so into rules of conduct and social ethics (just as means providing municipal conformity) - that masters capable of really amazing skills or insight could also be gamblers and debauched idiots and be really having fun doing so.

 

Like a cancer doctor who "off-work" smokes cigarettes, etc.

 

Things are not "neat" in real world or in some imaginary "psychological order" ready for consumption as a "good product". In reality, things do not match the logic of social conformity programs, entertainment programming, and school textbooks.

 

So, good masters who know a lot - we watch them die from ordinary causes, or do something "not cool" according to how we might want to think of them.

 

Everyone is free though - even free to "suck".

 

True Faith is not something you wait for a master to show you. And like Faith, Virtue is something each realizes for themselves. Virtue is an unwavering and unflinching devotion to "the Dao", the "order of the universe" or "reality".

 

We all learn Humility too, eventually. Even the "drunken masters".

 

Along these lines, I should mention that I think many people misunderstand what "Immortality" is, especially in relation to various masters, and various posts I read  here and around the internet.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[eye_of_the_storm]

Would not an enlightened person understand this? "Smarter to realize the preciousness of all this and go the other way - into caring very much, and giving away this supposedly "unimportant" existence into the service of all others."

There is mention of a few Immortals... all being of superb health + intelligence...

They seem to keep somewhat of a low profile

If you can't heal yourself the realization must not be very great.

I think we give some people too much credit... the expectation creates an illusion/ false idols.

Supreme physical health is the true foundation of meditation.

A Pure Living Temple.



Not one of death/ decay



 

Edited February 24, 2015 by eye_of_the_storm

[allinone]

water you drink was once something else. It says enough.

Edited February 24, 2015 by allinone

[Marblehead]

Supreme physical health is the true foundation of meditation.

 

Not one of death/ decay

While this is true we should not forget that death and decay are part of the natural cycle just as birth and growth are.

[Marblehead]

water you drink was once something else. It says enough.

Okay tough guy.  Hehehe.

 

But yes, the cycles of life.

[allinone]

While this is true we should not forget that death and decay are part of the natural cycle just as birth and growth are.

true that, but you might not lose consciousness while you are going through the process.

 

also you can born and die within microcosm that you become beyond "yourself" and see now from outside that circle of birth and death of the self.

Edited February 24, 2015 by allinone