high-level pathworking while still plugged in.

[Aetherous]

I kinda like the idea of being a mediocre cultivator/healer while living a worldly life as virtous as possible, even having a cup of coffee every now and then

 

Me too.

 

Edit: well, actually I'm hugely egotistical and want to win the spiritual grand prize. But I am not going to leave society.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Scotty

[Mal]

[King Kabalabhati]

[Aetherous]

Cultivation may change the way you see culture and society with all the emotional and logical fallacies, even so that you realise your long-time best friend is actually not good for you or that your closest relations are built on values you no longer view as solid or truly meaningful. But it can also give you the tools to handle these processes and, like in my situation, provide the energy and flexibility of mind to accept these changes and create a new kind of connection.

 

Very good post!

[betwixter]

-

Edited September 12, 2010 by betwixter

[Sahaj Nath]

What makes you think that if you can't find truth at home that you are going to find it in another country (or cave or anywhere else)? Good 'ole Carlos' petty tyrant comes to mind and using such (or any) situations to learn more about the reflections of self. Whether the reflections are 'internal' projections or 'external' projections, you can use either to cultivate.

 

the spirit of my inquiry wasn't really about finding truth elsewhere. it was more about coping in society while going through such radical changes that are spurred on by many hardcore cultivation practices. for instance, i have a very committed student who RIGHT NOW is going through some really intense anxiety/panic/childhood memory phases, and two things she's grateful for right now are that she doesn't need to hold down a job, and she has already raised her daughter. but she's plumbing the depths of some very long-standing traumas that she has never really faced before. 20 years ago this probably would have been enough to give her a breakdown, but at this phase in her life she's willing and able to work through it without any avoidance, and without it adversely effecting her social or financial standing in any way. she's got all of that stuff handled already.

 

she also has these periods of expanded consciousness where she is totally out of her body and feels totally connected to all of life, and having to immediately come back from that to engage in 'ordinary' social conventions could prove to be trying if she were in the workforce or a homemaker with children to look after.

 

the conventional western lifestyle is very rarely adaptable to this type of process without there being some significant disruption. and Cameron, the inspiration for my making the original post, was a good example at the time. he was manic and filled with ecstatic compulsion for days on end. he didn't sleep. he lost his job, which really sucked because he was working for his father! it seemed like he was posting a new thread topic every 10 minutes, and he seemed like he had to comment on EVERYTHING that was posted in every thread, even if his comment didn't fit. he eventually balanced out, of course, but it was definitely disruptive to his life at the time.

 

anyway, that was the nature of why i posted the question. i'd still love to get more of your take on it if you're still up for sharing.

[Sunya]

I really like the traditional Indian stages of life. After you live a worldly life and raise a family, you can then go off and focus on Realizing. Though I do not plan on having kids. My view is that it is best to balance worldly life with spiritual life and then later focus heavily on spirituality once one is fully ready and the conditions are right.

 

I know of several highly enlightened people who are businessmen, doctors, lawyers, etc. Daniel Ingram for instance attained deep realizations while in medical school. So it's certainly possible to do both, but many can't handle it, as Hundun mentioned.

 

I'm really looking forward to retiring by the time I'm 50 and opening up a retreat center. Till then I hope to find a job where I can help others, face my fears, overcome barriers, and challenge myself. If there's anything I learned from Ken Wilber's research, it's that a healthy ego, a developed ego, is very conducive toward deep spiritual progress.

 

I think that we in the West tend to push it to the extreme. Those in the East that yearned for fast realization were either hermits or monks. So they didn't have to deal with the crap that we do.

 

So I think that the traditional Indian stages of life are very relevant today because many people do live to the age of retirement and can easily focus on spiritual insights then, hopefully having already laid down a solid foundation already. By that point, they should already have a healthy ego that can handle the catharsis, strange and weird phenomena, and ego dissolution.

 

I think good advice to serious modern seekers is 'pace yourself.' We tend to hear about the end-result but very few people mention the actual path and how hard it can be.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Sunya

[Guest paul walter]

What makes you think that if you can't find truth at home that you are going to find it in another country (or cave or anywhere else)?

 

 

Cause the chances of hitting the wall of our own lie is much less in the world we have created around that lie. We need perspective on our situation and that is hardly achieved in the daily grind/indulgence.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Cause the chances of hitting the wall of our own lie is much less in the world we have created around that lie. We need perspective on our situation and that is hardly achieved in the daily grind/indulgence.

 

And conversely, we need the friction and tension of engagement in life to push our comfort limits. As much as we like to think it's the case, sitting in meditative bliss all day does not develop your interpersonal senses, so that an annoying friend or tense relationship will still throw us into reactivity. I think the best way is to be in life with frequent retreats for the perspective paul walter talks about.

 

I also am coming to believe more and more that the digital aspect of our lives is becoming more and more pervasive and that if over indulged, as is becoming more commonplace, it is a big hindrance on the path. Young people who have grown up with full digital engagement actually have their brains hardwired differently, it will be interesting to see if they can attain maturity in their interpersonal relationships and attain spiritual fruition as well with their short attention spans.