going forth

[seekingbuddha]

All descriptions i have come across in Buddhist  canons have the same description, as follows;  Every single person who became enlightened under Buddha, is described  in this same way.....

"they ask the
recluse Gotama to allow them to go forth from the home life into
homelessness, and he gives them the going forth."

 

Is it possible that the description  "he gives them the going forth"  is actually  meant to be the same as "the transmission from the master", that is described as the first step (of the 3 steps), in some other buddhist traditions ?  Is it possible  that we have mis-interpreted the words  "he gives them the going forth",  to the current world understanding of  "simple conversion into becoming a monk" ?  There is no description in Buddhist canons that i have read, where someone becomes "enlightened/a Arhant", without  going through the step of  "receiving  the going forth",  from Buddha  or one of his senior  disciples.  So,  this would naturally imply that "going forth"  is a necessary requirement,  in order to be completely/fully/highly  enlightened.  Not that this matters much to 99.99%  of  those who dwell on internet, because  it would be rare to find a person here who is a monk already.  So the opinions are likely to be prejudiced due to this factor, but i thought this would make for a good discussion.

[C T]

Its sounds a little odd that you put up a thread for discussion with a clause that says any opinion so given (herein) should not be taken too seriously since, in your opinion, no one has the credentials (monk) to offer unprejudiced input. But you still maintain it may lead to a good discussion. 

[allinone]

yes its hard to accept that enlightenment is possible.

[seekingbuddha]

Proof is in the pudding.  Only 2 replies (though unrelated), and very few even interested in viewing the topic.  Enlightenment is possible, but it is not as easy a process as the western world thinks it is. "Going forth"  is the first step  practiced by millions in the eastern world, even before they think about becoming enlightened/liberated/arhanted.  This  step is out of the realm of thoughts, even among the spiritually inclined  in the western world. So, what we can strive for is the peaceful middle path of a lay man/woman,  and pursue spirituality-hobby because this makes us happy/content/peaceful  in day to day mundane life.

[allinone]

Proof is in the pudding.  Only 2 replies (though unrelated), and very few even interested in viewing the topic.  Enlightenment is possible, but it is not as easy a process as the western world thinks it is. "Going forth"  is the first step  practiced by millions in the eastern world, even before they think about becoming enlightened/liberated/arhanted.  This  step is out of the realm of thoughts, even among the spiritually inclined  in the western world. So, what we can strive for is the peaceful middle path of a lay man/woman,  and pursue spirituality-hobby because this makes us happy/content/peaceful  in day to day mundane life.

 

how long they are "going forth"? 

 

you don't become arhant or streamentry, these are fruits to what you certificate after you die here. 

And many i believe take from religions what they need, not following it as a rule.

Edited February 25, 2015 by allinone

[allinone]

top notch is, we have merit enough to read whats on the table and practice any type of thought there is.

if not you wouldn't have access to the highest truth books in so many languages.

 

rennunciation is you renounce the self. You may go to monastery and find your way. 

But what you need to do is let go, perhaps you need to follow someone for years to be able to know what it feels to be set someone elses idea before your own even if your idea feels more right.

Edited February 25, 2015 by allinone

[allinone]

in order to become enlightened, you need to recieve certification, and prediction. 

Buddha has an eye to see everything, so he will appear to them who are ready.

[seekingbuddha]

how long they are "going forth"? 

 

you don't become arhant or streamentry, these are fruits to what you certificate after you die here. 

And many i believe take from religions what they need, not following it as a rule.

Hi  allinone,

    I view buddism NOT as a religion, but as a path for me to walk in.  The fruits found in this path are the knowledge and ever deepening understanding of how to reduce suffering in my life and thereby live more closer to reality, peace and a form of happiness that transcends the type of happiness that i experienced using sensual pleasures. When i was a child/teen, i practiced a (different) religion that was my family root.

 

   As part of my practice, i read Buddha's discourses, and i have enough reading behind me to be clear about what he taught. Practicing what he taught is the tough part.  But, those who practice his teachings  (to the letter), attained  different levels of liberation under him. (I don't want to get into description of all those). Stream-entry and Arhantship and such liberations/fruits/results attained  by  his students,  during the lifetime of The Supremely Enlightened One.  They were fortunate to train under the teacher himself.  Now, it is rarer to find such Arhants because teachers like Buddha are also rare.  But,  for us, simple ordinary laymen (or even for many monks),  just practicing  the basic steps that buddha taught  are a challenge - leave alone his  higher teachings and attainments.  What is great is that even those simple basic steps give many many good fruits for us, once we start practicing them - a much better and happier life.

 

top notch is, we have merit enough to read whats on the table and practice any type of thought there is.

if not you wouldn't have access to the highest truth books in so many languages.

What i found over the decades is that the very same words that i read and understood long ago, carry a even deeper and more wise meaning,  later in my life,  because my practice strengthened over years - and this gives new perspectives and new experiences, from the very same words of buddha.   So,  i read plenty when i was younger and did understand them and practice them.  But looking back, i realize that the very same words carry layers  of  experience, insight and meaning, which are  uncovered  with stronger  meditation practice.

 

rennunciation is you renounce the self. You may go to monastery and find your way. 

But what you need to do is let go, perhaps you need to follow someone for years to be able to know what it feels to be set someone elses idea before your own even if your idea feels more right.

I am not understanding how this relates to my original post.  But,  i understand what you are trying to say.  There was a recent discussion aboun  renunciation in another thread that comes to my mind.  Metta......