Clarification and Apology

[rex]

First off let me say that I love this place and consider it a haven of valuable discussion and have often have spent far too much time here than is good for me over the years (writing this post included). I like the ethos of eclecticism, egalitarianism and civility. (http://thedaobums.com/topic/31825-thetaobums-three-foundations-eclectic-egalitarian-civil/?p=480483).

 

I do apologise that I am a source of discord for bringing up moderating issues, so if I am no longer welcome here, so be it, but with my recent actions I do owe Soaring Crane a reply and am owed a right of reply.

 

Please excuse the lack of formatted quotes as the original threads are locked.

 

Just to be clear Soaring Crane, I wish you well and bear no personal animosity towards you (this goes for the moderating team too), but I am Mighty Pissed Off.

 

From the start it was a given that the locked thread was't really going to be re-opened but I was making the point that you made it quite clear that:

 

Soaring Crane :

"And that is the final word. Thread locked."

[http://thedaobums.com/topic/37686-what-happened-to-the-extinguishing-the-sex-drive-thread/?p=610823]

(After the delivery of your broadside with no right of reply granted. Hit and Run also comes to mind.)

 

Then surpise is expressed in another thread that the actions were found vexatious and you re-opened discussion inviting me to be more reflective:

 

Soaring Crane said:

"Maybe some day you'll need someone to go to bat for you here and the person to do it will be one of us (or whatever the mod team is on that day)."

[http://thedaobums.com/topic/37708-vexatious-moderating/?p=610980]

You and others were certainly not batting for me in the original thread.I submit that it was only because some members were batting for the moderating issues raised that you re-opened the discussion that was previously cut short - otherwise you would have preferred me to quietly withdraw.

 

I fail to see how the progression of my posts in the original thread can be construed to be baseless attacks of increasing intensity, demanding that personal issues be revisited and the thread restored regardless of the personal cost to the op.They quoted no one's post in particular, and were responding to was perceived to be the successive train of unconvincing, contradictory, nonchalant,and rather dispiriting replies of the presiding moderators who seemed to be wilfully conflating personal issues with moderating issues to direct attention away from actions that they could not comfortably justify. The last post made it clear that there was no interest in personal issues and that the spotlight was on the moderation methods. The progression of the posts:

 

Rex said

"This was an interesting thread. Will it ever be released from where it has been consigned?"

[http://thedaobums.com/topic/37686-what-happened-to-the-extinguishing-the-sex-drive-thread/?p=610581]

 

"Thanks for the explanation, the reason is understandable but the method totalitarian. Given the level of interest and effort required for people to respond an announcement with a reason would have been welcome. Couldn't there have been the possibility of expunging the thread of all of the original poster's entries, including quotations in responses, and just leaving the thread to answer a general non-personalised question?"

[http://thedaobums.com/topic/37686-what-happened-to-the-extinguishing-the-sex-drive-thread/?p=610625]

 

"A wry observation - members posts are sacrosanct and cannot be edited by the mods but they can be made to quietly disappear without so much as a 'by your leave'."

[http://thedaobums.com/topic/37686-what-happened-to-the-extinguishing-the-sex-drive-thread/?p=610714]

 

"It's not really about why the posts were removed; it's about how they were removed and the casual disregard of the moderators towards ordinary posters revealed in the process."

[http://thedaobums.com/topic/37686-what-happened-to-the-extinguishing-the-sex-drive-thread/?p=610728]

 

When you stepped in to lock the thread you made a point of responding specifically to my post, rather then the general cohort of bums that were expressing similar concerns, summarily discounted the attempt to clarify that it was not about individuals but process, and proceeded to release a tirade of thinly veiled invective at me:

 

Soaring Crane

"Not really. That thread was started by someone who was/is obviously going through a very rough period. The whole purpose of that thread was to help someone in need. And now you're all given a chance to actually help that person by granting a little peace and quiet, and what do you do? You cling to some silly lines of text you posted in the internet. Many of you are clearly far more interested in projecting your views and beliefs on other people than you are in actually helping those who need it. It's shameful behavior from individuals who should, given the amount of wisdom and insight they purport to embody, act a bit more respectfully to someone who has real problems.

Think about it. If your posts were so profound and valuable, you would remember what you wrote and not need to have a record of it here to remind you and the rest of us of your wisdom.

And there's nothing stopping any of you from simply starting up a new conversation based loosely or strictly on what went on in Flo's thread.

edit: I want to make explicitly clear that my feelings on this have absolutely nothing to do with Flo's status as a moderator. If anything, I'd probably use even sterner language if it were a regular member. And that is the final word. Thread locked.

[http://thedaobums.com/topic/37686-what-happened-to-the-extinguishing-the-sex-drive-thread/?p=610823]

 

There's quite nothing like a faintly implied bit of verbal/written intimidation/menace with this section of your post:

"If anything, I'd probably use even sterner language if it were a regular member."

 

You could argue that you were addressing everyone that expressed concerns; but even after another explanation of my postion (http://thedaobums.com/topic/37699-question/?p=610931) you have demonstrated, in the latest locked thread, that you still don't get it, and are still holding me personally responsible for things I did not demand or make a specific issue over. In addition you are the one constantly bringing up the painful reminders that I have strived to keep out of the discussion from the start:

 

Soaring Crane

"Can you appreciate the level of desperation a person has to feel in order to even start a thread like that? What's more important to you? A couple paragraphs of text that you wrote once in the internet, or a person's well-being?"

[http://thedaobums.com/topic/37708-vexatious-moderating/?p=610980]

 

I appreciate that moderation is a thankless and difficult task and expressed support for the moderators a few years ago when questions of moderator behaviour arose:

http://thedaobums.com/topic/16353-free-speech-and-moderator-action/?p=224337

I do however regret to say that it is not only posters who abuse the spirit of the taobums but also, in this rare instance, certain sections of the moderating team too. But then this isn't taobums anymore is it? It's daobums and this seems to make a difference.

[zerostao]

z

Edited February 21, 2015 by zerostao

[dawei]

well  brother, i just noticed my thread was locked too. 

i asked a benign question to which i still have not been given a straight answer,

why a mod could delete 160+ of my posts without notifying me and refuse to tell which threads those posts were in.

and we cant even discuss it. thread closed!

the writing on the wall is clear for me.

and dear current mods and admin, i will save you the trouble of deleting any other of my posts. i will begin to do so myself.

 

The operative word is 'deleted'... if they are truly gone, there is no threads to tied back to ones being exactly your posts.

 

And it was mentioned that in the past, empty posts were deleted. 

[zerostao]

z

Edited February 21, 2015 by zerostao

[dawei]

my current post count will be 6092, if i dont own them you dont either, watch how fast this number drops

 

Threats on the board are not welcomed.   You should step back a bit and consider what your trying to accomplish.

[zerostao]

what threat? i certainly have not threatened anyone. goodness

[soaring crane]

Well, I certainly do appreciate the work you put into this, Rex (the timestamp says 4:11 am, I hope that isn't UK time), and I do apologize for losing sight of the big picture and causing you so much consternation, and I certainly feel no animosity toward you.

 

It seems to have been my unfortunate use of your quote as the springboard for my "final word" post in the first thread that progressively led to your current state of vexation. I've gone back and read it and the other entries and feel that my words in themselves express my view of the issues accurately, but the impression made is that they're directed at you, calling you out as the main instigator of the problem I'm addressing. But that's absolutely not the case. Please believe me on that. Your statement just fit garammatcally into what I wanted to say.

 

You remain civil and objective in your postings (as you always do) throughout and I should have taken that into consideration when writing my reply. Please do believe me that when I apologise, there's a lot of mea in my culpa. I don't want to upset you or give you any reason to feel singled-out, under personal attack or, God forbid, unwelcome. I'm feeling a little rotten myself, now, too :/

 

That brings me around to the next thread, your vexatious moderating thread. I made clear how I understand that word, and believe I understood you correctly when you appiled it. You as much as confirmed that here (and also made clear where the sentiment came from, which, as I've stated, I now better understand from your perspective). But you're wrong on that point, at least as far as my motivations go. The only thing on my mind at that time was putting the kibosh on the discussion about Flo. Locking that thread wasn't directed at you or other participants in the discussion. It was what I refer to as going to bat for someone.

 

And as I implied previously, if you're ever in the position where you need the kind of assistance that has been shown to Flo (and quite a few other members, even though those instances don''t get the publicity this one has generated) I'm here for you (so long as my tenure as a mod holds out). In this particular case, please just do try to understand that Flo's troubles were/are of a different magnitude and needed to be given priority.

[Marblehead]

Nice to see we all are still being compassionate and understanding.

[rex]

Thank you for your gracious and clear reply Soaring Crane. Crikey 4:11 am? I thought it was more like 3:11 am UK time, but I had to attend to a few things before posting again, and then wasn't sure if this thread would've been locked, or I'd had been banned or suspended on return.

 

Please don't feel responsible in any way for how I felt; It was not like I was curled up in a ball or anything, though your expression of concern, regret and offer to extend future support if needed is much appreciated and gratefully accepted. After all, by raising the question I did enter the arena willingly, so have to accept the consequences of how the posts were received - it was just extremely irksome to be confronted with ad hominem and group think.

 

I know it's a cliche but what we saw in the whole affair was a failure to communicate. The irony is that the need to protect the orginal poster was never under scrutiny, and on being informed of this overiding objective, the removal of the thread and loss of posts was never an issue. I just tried to bring up a point of procedure - can't the community be informed that a thread has been removed?  That's all. But the atmosphere became highly charged and this moderation question intersected with a parallel moderation issue involving the same person and faeces and fan came together, which in turn raised further moderation issues, if not eyebrows.

 

I'm sure we'll all welcome Sean's moderation guidelines review when it comes as recent events show the need for it.

 

 

edit:tpyos

Edited February 22, 2015 by rex

[C T]

All the panic for nothing. 

 

(This drama) Could easily have been avoided if the lines of communication were kept open and members involved were kept informed of impending considerations to hide the thread, and not treat the whole thing as something blown onto tissue to be flushed down the loo. Its not nice when this happens. Respect is always mutual. 

[soaring crane]

~~~moderator message~~~

 

Because this thread was started with the sole purpose of

requesting information from an individual,

which has now been provided and acknowledged,

the thread is locked.

Mission accomplished, so to speak.

 

~~~end~~~