Golden Immortal

[TheDustAutumn]

"If students want to shed birth and death , they should learn celestial

immortality ; if they want to learn celestial immortality, they cannot do so

but by the great science of gold elixir. Gold is something incorruptible ;

elixir is a symbol for blending without hindrance . Incorrupti ble , freely

blending , the undifferentiated one energy is like the measureless empty

sphere of heaven , enclosing everything , invulnerable to anything . Therefore

after the way is accomplished , one is called a celestial immortal ;

because of being forever incorruptible , this is also called a gold immortal ;

because of appearing and disappearing unfathomably, this is also called a

spirit immortal . In reality, gold immortals and spirit immortals are all

celestial immortals . If you want to learn celestial immortality, there is no

method of doing so save the science of the gold elixir."

( Liu Yiming's comentary to "Understanding Reality")

Edited March 11, 2015 by coZma

[JinlianPai]

 

"If students want to shed birth and death , they should learn celestial

immortality ; if they want to learn celestial immortality, they cannot do so

but by the great science of gold elixir. Gold is something incorruptible ;

elixir is a symbol for blending without hindrance . Incorrupti ble , freely

blending , the undifferentiated one energy is like the measureless empty

sphere of heaven , enclosing everything , invulnerable to anything . Therefore

after the way is accomplished , one is called a celestial immortal ;

because of being forever incorruptible , this is also called a gold immortal ;

because of appearing and disappearing unfathomably, this is also called a

spirit immortal . In reality, gold immortals and spirit immortals are all

celestial immortals . If you want to learn celestial immortality, there is no

method of doing so save the science of the gold elixir."

( Liu Yiming's comentary to "Understanding Reality")

 

Thanks for getting the thread back on to the op and for posting a source and different perspective on the topic.

 

That's quality posting. 

 

Now he brings up a interesting point about celestial immortals and gold immortals being the same.

 

But

 

I have also heard that gold immortals are higher than celestial immortal my links for that are one page one of this thread.

 

So I wonder why that is?

 

I think that it is natural for immortals to emit gold light since they are working with the golden elixir after all and there is much to back this.

[TheDustAutumn]

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Edited August 8, 2016 by TheDustAutumn

[JinlianPai]

Chinese classics have a habit of naming the same thing in a thousand ways. My understanding is that there are basically 3 types of heavenly immortals: Immortals that have appeared by themselves in their current form(as in beings born in the heavenly realm, deities, gods, angels whatever you wanna call them), immortal beings that achieved immortality through cultivation and still reside in the lower realms(Shen Xians living on earth) and immortal beings who have achieved immortality  through cultivation and have been summoned to heaven (Tian Xians). 

These can be further categorized by their function they have in the heavenly realms but it is unclear whether this is an indication of further inner development or just that "they did their job well and got promoted"

 I might be wrong as at this point the hierarchy of heaven is not my main concern but this quote from Zhong Lu Zhuan Dao Ji comes to mind 

 

 

Very cool.

 

Seems like work is never over even after immortality is achieved.

 

I was talking to Opendao from the wulipai on another thread who said that the Shen Xian level that light can be emitted.

 

It seems what determines higher levels of immortality is merit and placement.

 

But this brings me to this question why are they called gold immortals?

 

My guess would be that it has something to do with the golden elixir.

 

 

 

 they have used Iead to replenish

Mercury; they can channel the relined generative energy to

the top of the head; and they  can transform the jade nectar

into the elixir.

 

This confirms what I was thinking from personal experience.

 

That the golden elixir is made in the pineal gland.

 

That this elixir is luminous blissful and unmistakable. Also that this elixir must be cultivated as well.

Edited March 11, 2015 by JinlianPai

[JinlianPai]

It is also my contention that some types of shengong and neigong internally stimulate and invoke the production of the elixir but very little is produced each time if at all.

 

Thus making progress much slower than what it has to be.

[TheDustAutumn]

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Edited August 8, 2016 by TheDustAutumn

[JinlianPai]

The elixir is qi, it is not made in the body, the body is the place where qi or the medicine is gathered and refined. Countless texts speak of it. Even Tao Te Ching mentions it in: 

 

The Golden Elixir is the ultimate refinement of qi, when it can be refined no further. Qi refinement usually means 2 things: How dense and how pure it is.

 

Purity of qi is referred in the classics if i'm not mistaken as the difference between "turbid and clear water". It has to do with the aura of the person and the relation he has with the world and himself. It is what some on this forum had deemed "new-age nonsense". A golden aura is the aura of someone who has done no bad deeds to others or to himself or who has purified himself from what he had done. Negative emotions, bad actions, remorse, desire, ego, pride all enter within this category. The more of those we have that aren't cleansed the more muddy the qi will be.Taoists use what is called "The practice of repentance" to deal with this. If the qi is "turbid" then at one point it can't be used anymore and the practitioner gets "stuck" on a level in his cultivation. This too is mentioned in the Tao Te Ching 

 

 

 

"Filling their belies" refers to the density of qi and is done by applying fire to it. Fire is consciousness. There are 3 levels of consciousness: shi shen(discriminating mind), yuan shen(unconscious mind) and ling(eternal soul). Usually we have control only over the shi shen. The more we control the deeper levels of awareness the more "fire" we can apply and the more dense the stored qi will be. As I understand it the method to refine the fire itself is called "enlightenment" and a fully enlightened person is one who has full control over ones Ling. Taoist use "The secret of the golden flower" to achieve this and without this even if one has a pure aura it may take a whole life-time to finish the cultivation of the Golden Elixir.  The method of using the 3 levels consciousness to reach immortality is called "entering the Tao" .

 

Well given what I practice now I have to disagree on a few points.

 

I think the old masters were pretty straight forward on what it was. To think otherwise is to take a risk.

 

 

The Golden Elixir is the ultimate refinement of qi, when it can be refined no further. Qi refinement usually means 2 things: How dense and how pure it is.

 

I agree with this.

 

 

A golden aura is the aura of someone who has done no bad deeds to others or to himself or who has purified himself from what he had done. 

 

I disagree with you on this. The golden elixir changes you it has a spiritual effect on you. The properties in it will change you. You can be the nicest person in the world and not have the actual golden elixir inside you being cultivated.

 

The golden elixir is made inside the body but it to has to be cultivate but its presence in the body has a cultivation effect to the spirit body.

 

The golden elixir can be manifested and it gets more dense the longer one practices.

[TheDustAutumn]

I disagree with you on this. The golden elixir changes you it has a spiritual effect on you. The properties in it will change you. You can be the nicest person in the world and not have the actual golden elixir inside you being cultivated.

 

The golden elixir is made inside the body but it to has to be cultivate but its presence in the body has a cultivation effect to the spirit body.

 

The golden elixir can be manifested and it gets more dense the longer one practices.

I agree totally with what you say. With a small adendo: One changes himself and the elixir is refined, the refined elixir is used to further change oneself which in turn refines the elixir even further and so on until wu pu wei is achieved and the Golden Elixir is completed. This is Ming refining Xing which in turn further refines Ming as a circle or known as the Xiao Zhou Tian.

Also please understand that the golden aura I was referring is not the same as Golden Elixir and I wasn't implying that it might be

[JinlianPai]

Also please understand that the golden aura I was referring is not the same as Golden Elixir and I wasn't implying that it might be

 

 

Ok this makes me ask the question of why not and if not then what was the context of the golden aura in this conversation?

 

Was it in reference to golden immortals?

 

What is your theory  of  Xiao Zhou Tian (microcosmic orbit) and its relation to the golden elixir.

Edited March 11, 2015 by JinlianPai

[JinlianPai]

The mco isnt the most direct way that ive found for the golden elixir.

Edited March 11, 2015 by JinlianPai

[JinlianPai]

http://www.ymba.org/books/taming-monkey-mind-guide-pure-land-practice/introduction-pure-land-buddhism

 

After the person dies, the people in the room perceive a magical fragrance and hear celestial music gradually fading away toward the west. A golden lotus might appear on the death bed or on top of the coffin.

 

Thats interesting 

Edited March 12, 2015 by JinlianPai

[JinlianPai]

http://www.khandro.net/nature_plants_lotus.htm

 

According to the prevalent creation myth of India, there emanated out of the primeval waters due to the mind-activity of the Supreme Being, a thousand-petaled golden Lotus.

 

http://ppmaudiostream.org/how-to-do-the-meditation/the-mechanism-of-the-meditation.html

When the Crown Chakra is sufficiently activated, its 12 inner petals open and turn upward like a golden cup, golden crown, golden lotus or golden flower to receive spiritual energy which is distributed to other parts of the body. It is also symbolized as the Holy Grail.

 

The golden lotus attainment is about the crown chakra opening. Like a lotus  bloosming. When this happens it is suppose to emit gold light like a halo.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=9mOGAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT299&lpg=PT299&dq=golden+lotus+kundalini&source=bl&ots=SN0vv1PVGr&sig=jBhdyRwXb57irPX8ZL-Q-skzDLA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=nvkAVf29IYG1ggSe84C4DQ&ved=0CEgQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=golden%20lotus%20kundalini&f=false

 

I wonder how that fits in with golden immortals.

[JinlianPai]

http://www.q-rak.com/#!kundalini/c14gc

In this level of complete kundalini, a holy golden spiritual body of the practitioner will be shaped up as Avatar.

 

 The stage of purification the base chakra is remarked by the growth of kundalini's genetic over the head with the genetic form of golden lotus flower. 

[TheDustAutumn]

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Edited August 8, 2016 by TheDustAutumn

[TheDustAutumn]

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Edited August 8, 2016 by TheDustAutumn

[JinlianPai]

As I understand it the golden aura is a manifestation of purity. One can have a golden aura and not posses the Golden Elixir. Children when they are born are supposed to have golden auras and yet they are not immortal. I don't think a golden aura is the same as the light emitted by immortals

About what you have quoted: I don't want to post my opinion on systems I have not practiced. And it is very hard to understand those systems as high level practitioners with true achievement have yet to come forward and give their enlightened view.Or perhaps they have and in my ignorance i have missed it. Otherwise is very hard to get an informed opinion as a lot of spiritual paths are heavily shrouded in fear and myth and in most times even the practitioners don't know why they are practicing and for what exact purpose. Not to mention the systems that are just make-believe.

My view is that here on this planet there are 3 types of practices: One that leads to immortality, one that leads to enlightenment where the True Self or Ling is manifested(this is where a lot of schools like christian monasteries and Buddhist and Tibetan practices fall in my opinion) and schools that use the above 2 practices on a lower level for minor purposes such as good health or martial arts.

The problem is that, for example, I am unsure what terms like "rainbow body" actually mean. Here I have seen people saying that rainbow body for example is the same as celestial immortality but to be fair if you study the holy texts there is no reason to truly believe that. Seems to be the mark of a truly enlightened person rather than an immortal one and it is unclear, at least to me if total enlightenment will give one immortality or vice versa.

There are texts that even compare reaching enlightenment where all the karmic energies are dissipated and the Ling no longer reincarnates but without being immortal as a form of spiritual suicide as the practitioner has "a master but not a house". I am guessing that is why Chinese people emphasize both Xing and Ming cultivation and why schools of Luohans such as the GengMen Pai work with qi.

The chakra at the top of the head is the ultimate achievement in many schools which I perceive to be genuine and is called the likes of "opening the 72nd chakra of the 72nd level" or "three yang gathering at the top of the head" and a lot of systems know that but again I have my doubts whether a lot of them actually know how to open it or what does it. 

 

I think the 3 different types of enlightenment you mentioned are all one.

 

1. Its spiritual alchemy.

 

2. There is no conceptual realization without experiencing it so that means inner attainment. (How can you understand this reality if you can even see auras?)

 

3. There is no high level cultivator that cant do stillness the stillness is coming regardless if your practice is seated or moving.

 

Well no xing and ming are needed.

 

You wont have elixir with xing and you wont have alchemy without ming so they are both needed.

 

Well you mention gengmenpai and the 72nd level and so forth. The thing here is are those lineages are is how is the alchemy set up? Certain things happen at certain times with different sects of alchemy.

 

They may have a whole level dedicated to projecting chi out the palms and building that ability.

 

Who knows.

 

But here's where im will to take a safe guess. The cultivator who can become pure energy most likely has more energy and power than the guy who cant.

Edited March 12, 2015 by JinlianPai

[JinlianPai]

Also the highest level of Jin Dan is supposed to be actually purple, not golden.

 

Really post your source and explain why.

 

Ive heard of golden immortals and golden elixir but not purple.....

[TheDustAutumn]

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Edited August 8, 2016 by TheDustAutumn

[JinlianPai]

The source is Ling Bao Bi Fa. I don't have a translated version but you can read about the Purple Jin Dan in the Chao Yuan Lian Qi technique of the Heavenly Immortal cultivation method.

As for all 3 types of cultivation being one I really don't know, they just might be although there is strong evidence to support the contrary: enlightened people who are not immortal and immortal beings who are clearly not enlightened. A perfect example of the latter are the immortals of the Motzu sect.

The Min version of "The secret of the golden flower" also states that even though Tao and Enlightenment have the same path "One may enter Enlightenment first, then afterwards enter the Tao, or enter the Tao first and Enlightenment afterwards" so a clear distinction between the two. And BTW the spherical light that appears in the practice of Taiyi jin hua zhong zhi is bluish-purple in my experience.

PS: I actually have a pretty decent understanding of what they do in the GengMen Pai (a few advanced students are from my country) and in what way the Master helps them both through the initiation and the regular check-ups and adjustments. Not only they are legit but their Shifu also has quite amazing abilities and is a very humble and kind person

Edited March 16, 2015 by JinlianPai

[Ish]

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Edited July 26, 2016 by Ish

[JinlianPai]

Since you say it so plainly, i guess its fine to ask plainly too. Could you post a video of that? sounds interesting.

 

I really dont want to go public with it I just brought it up so Cozma knew where I was coming from in my posting.

[JinlianPai]

The source is Ling Bao Bi Fa. I don't have a translated version but you can read about the Purple Jin Dan in the Chao Yuan Lian Qi technique of the Heavenly Immortal cultivation method.

As for all 3 types of cultivation being one I really don't know, they just might be although there is strong evidence to support the contrary: enlightened people who are not immortal and immortal beings who are clearly not enlightened. A perfect example of the latter are the immortals of the Motzu sect.

The Min version of "The secret of the golden flower" also states that even though Tao and Enlightenment have the same path "One may enter Enlightenment first, then afterwards enter the Tao, or enter the Tao first and Enlightenment afterwards" so a clear distinction between the two. And BTW the spherical light that appears in the practice of Taiyi jin hua zhong zhi is bluish-purple in my experience.

PS: I actually have a pretty decent understanding of what they do in the GengMen Pai (a few advanced students are from my country) and in what way the Master helps them both through the initiation and the regular check-ups and adjustments. Not only they are legit but their Shifu also has quite amazing abilities and is a very humble and kind person

 

This is a more detailed reply to your post.

 

 

 the spherical light that appears in the practice of Taiyi jin hua zhong zhi is bluish-purple in my experience.

 

Is this light visible to others? Also are you admitting that gold light is visible at some time?

 

 

the Purple Jin Dan in the Chao Yuan Lian Qi technique of the Heavenly Immortal cultivation method.

 

Havent heard of this one but ill look into it. Is this what you practice? The only thing ive seen for purple gold elixir is a herbal treatment.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=qC6ft38FYdoC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=Purple+Jin+Dan&source=bl&ots=Dl5vgpXZzl&sig=j_mfWZ7nupmBw4hTKhg729ZhR6s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6iICVZyiF4q_ggSCuoSwCg&ved=0CB0Q6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=Purple%20Jin%20Dan&f=false

 

 

As for all 3 types of cultivation being one I really don't know, they just might be although there is strong evidence to support the contrary: enlightened people who are not immortal and immortal beings who are clearly not enlightened. A perfect example of the latter are the immortals of the Motzu sect.

The Min version of "The secret of the golden flower" also states that even though Tao and Enlightenment have the same path "One may enter Enlightenment first, then afterwards enter the Tao, or enter the Tao first and Enlightenment afterwards" so a clear distinction between the two. 

 

 

Yes I agree with this since different sect develop different things at different times.

 

 

PS: I actually have a pretty decent understanding of what they do in the GengMen Pai (a few advanced students are from my country) and in what way the Master helps them both through the initiation and the regular check-ups and adjustments. Not only they are legit but their Shifu also has quite amazing abilities and is a very humble and kind person

 

Not concerned about the gengmenpai really.

 

Too many videos to markety for me.http://masterjiang.com/

[TheDustAutumn]

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Edited August 8, 2016 by TheDustAutumn

[JinlianPai]

Please don't try to defend anything I wasn't denying anything that your school teaches, I am sure you speak the truth.If my comment came as trying to deny or question what you say I apologies. I don't know everything and that is why I enter this forum to try to learn more.

About the Jinhua being visible I have heard of a student that lighted up a whole room with it but I don't know the details. It never happened to me. I also don't know for sure if the color of the Jinhua is individual or the same for all or if it changes based on other factors, I will have to ask about it. To me it always appears bluish-violet. There are other techniques where internal power is visible as light but we can choose the color.

There is in classical alchemy a practice called "Gold fluid refining the body" which transforms the physical body and a sign of this is the body(bones?) emitting golden light but I can't say more as I never saw a demonstration of it. It is also an advanced practice, right at the end of the Earth immortal cultivation method

 

Well I dont know everything either and I am also here trying to get my questions answered.

 

My teacher gave a similar demonstration.

 

No no I dont take offense to anything.

Edited March 16, 2015 by JinlianPai

[phore]

Here is a quote from Understanding Reality By Chang Po Tuan with Commentary by Liu I Ming, translated by Thomas cleary.

This is the First sentence in the Third verse by Po Tuan:

 

If you are going to study immortality, you should only study celestial immortality; only the gold elixir is worthwhile.

 

This is a quote from Liu I Mings commentary.

 

If students want to shed birth and death, they should learn celestial immortality; if they want to learn celestial immortality, they cannot do so but by the great science of gold elixir.  Gold is something incorruptible; elixir is a symbol for blending, without hindrance.  Incorruptible, freely blending, the undifferentiated one energy is like the measureless empty sphere of heaven, enclosing everything, invulnerable to anything.  Therefore after the way is accomplished, on is called a celestial immortal; because of being forever incorruptible this is also called a gold immortal; because of appearing and disappearing unfathomably this is also called a spirit immortal.  In reality, gold immortals and spirit immortals are all celestial immortals.   If you want to learn celestial immortality, there is no method of doing so save the science of gold elixir.

 

This seems relevant to this discussion.

 

Love and Light

Tony