Conceptual Virtue question, Teaching vs Healing

[Kundaolinyi]

This may show my own personal limitations in where I'm at, or perhaps spark debate on matter of opinion, but I arrived at a surprising question today in practice, and I'd like to see what the community's thoughts on the matter are.

To introduce the topic, I'll quickly propose two of my own personal philosophical decisions of which my inquiry stems from.

One (of 2 here) of my relevant philosophies -on qi, chakras, vitues and power-

The qi system, as in general, in my opinion, relates most strongly in the dantian to Swadisthana Chakra, and thus to open up to the heart past Manipura Chakra, conditions of Swadisthan Chakra (conditions of the qi system) must be prepared for the opening.  Manipura, being a chakra in which the idea of "Power" must be pondered, the solution to the preponderance is found on the path of Virtue. Virtue is the psychosomatic chain to the health of the body, and the health of the body connects to the depths of oneself through the Qi system....  Simply put, Virtue is a necessary component of "Power", and the concept of "Power" is a necessary component of Virtue's discovery.  Virtue controls "Power", and "Power" propels Virtue, this path opens up the heart beyond the desire for "Power" for the sake of "Power".  At the same time as heightening one's spirit to the heart and beyond, one strengthens the physical body, and the Qi, via Virtue and Power.  -Thus, I find that Virtue is important, very simple in the end if I sum it up like that, elementary.  In caveman talk, Virtue = Good, I want to have it, lol.

The second (of two here) of my relevant philosophies -on pondering concepts-

Answering a philosophical question to me is to successfully ponder a 'conceptual virtue'.  These philosophical decisions make up who we become in life.  I ask, in a philosophical question -"What is the 'highest' of virtues for the sake of my psychosomatic health, my interaction with the world, my spiritual development, etc?"  This is the root control point for our higher level reasoning, the development of personal philosophy.  In everything we do in life, we have a personal philosophy as our reasoning.  "I am this way, so I do this way."  This is why I ponder Virtue, because its development is akin to one's sense of self, personal philosophy, and psychosomatic health to the body.


The question of this thread-

The question that came to me the other day was that of intention, in the moment, or in life.  The question I propose in this thread, retaining in mind the above two paragraphs being its source, is-

Between the 'intention to heal' and the 'intention to teach', which is the higher or more Virtuous intent?  Or is it a matter of opinion?  Or perhaps they are equal and can be categorized simply as ideas pertaining to an 'element', as if simply another Hexagram of the I Ching to be dealt with?

What are your thoughts on Teaching and healing (as a life path, or just an intention in the moment) ?  Save in mind that teaching to heal is a possible intention to use, and perhaps healing someone's knowledge maybe.  I'm a little fuzzy past that point.  I simply have not finalized my thoughts on the matter.

What do 'thedaobumbs' have to say on this all?
 

[blue eyed snake]

Between the 'intention to heal' and the 'intention to teach', which is the higher or more Virtuous intent?  Or is it a matter of opinion?  Or perhaps they are equal and can be categorized simply as ideas pertaining to an 'element', as if simply another Hexagram of the I Ching to be dealt with?

 

I would say they are two sides of the same coin. Healing consist of both helping someone clearing (a) blockage(s) they can't clear themselves and teaching them how to heal their body's by themselves. If a healer doesn't teach he's carrying water to the sea.

[Marblehead]

I would say they are two sides of the same coin. Healing consist of both helping someone clearing (a) blockage(s) they can't clear themselves and teaching them how to heal their body's by themselves. If a healer doesn't teach he's carrying water to the sea.

There's more than just one coin in this game too.  That of intention.

 

Both healing and teaching can happen unintentionally.

 

I do agree with you though, to teach someone how to heal themself would be the "highest" goal.

 

But both, to teach and/or to heal another would be very worthy, whether intentional or not.

[GrandmasterP]

Teachers sometimes heal and healers sometimes teach.

Both are virtuous paths when followed honourably and humbly.

Edited February 26, 2015 by GrandmasterP

[blue eyed snake]

There's more than just one coin in this game too.  That of intention.

 

Both healing and teaching can happen unintentionally.

 

I do agree with you though, to teach someone how to heal themself would be the "highest" goal.

 

But both, to teach and/or to heal another would be very worthy, whether intentional or not.

 

I agree, every coin has a rim, some coins are thicker than others. And some people just heal you by looking at you, listening, making tea...

 

But I didn't say that teaching how to heal yourself is the highest goal. I said that healing and teaching should be balanced ( or harmonized ).

Seems to me that is both for the student and the teacher the most balanced way ( or something...)

[blue eyed snake]

Teachers sometimes heal and healers sometimes teach.

Both are virtuous paths when followed honourably and humbly.

 

Honorably and humbly, always....thank you

 

There shouldn't be talk about  'higher', not ever

[Marblehead]

There shouldn't be talk about  'higher', not ever

Okay, I will pay higher attention to that.

[blue eyed snake]

Okay, I will pay higher attention to that.

 

you're cute...sometimes

[Marblehead]

you're cute...sometimes

Other times I can be a real pain.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Between the 'intention to heal' and the 'intention to teach', which is the higher or more Virtuous intent?"

-----

 

Neither.

 

Virtue is leaving intention for what it is and paying attention, unwaveringly, to reality, to what is actually going on.

 

Intentions of any sort could blow away in the wind of reality. If this leaves "nothing" to do, then Virtue is absent.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[blue eyed snake]

Other times I can be a real pain.

 

yeah, those things mostly come together, in males....

[blue eyed snake]

Virtue is leaving intention for what it is and paying attention, unwaveringly, to reality, to what is actually going on.

 

that's a concise description of the way my qigong teacher acts

[Marblehead]

Re:

-----

"Between the 'intention to heal' and the 'intention to teach', which is the higher or more Virtuous intent?"

-----

 

Neither.

 

Virtue is leaving intention for what it is and paying attention, unwaveringly, to reality, to what is actually going on.

 

Intentions of any sort could blow away in the wind of reality. If this leaves "nothing" to do, then Virtue is absent.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

No arguement, but really, in todays world we do need have intentions and take action to follow through with them into manifestation.

 

Life wasn't near as complex back in the old days.  (Of course, it doesn't have to be today either but for the vast majority it simply is.)

[Marblehead]

yeah, those things mostly come together, in males....

Hehehe.  I'm not going to let you put all that weight on only males.  Women do make life hard for a man to live sometimes.

[Kundaolinyi]

Thank you for all the replies.  It seems like there is an agreement amongst the majority, that the old 'give a fish or teach someone to fish' is an important philisophical application of both healing and teaching.
 

I can't help but disagree with the notion that there is no such thing as a 'higher intention' though.  The idea of categorizing intentions as higher or lower in one's mind will ultimately direct one's actions.  "I consider this to be more important than that, so I do this more often than I do that."  We often make these decisions without conscious intent.  Consciously categorizing intentions not only requires higher level reasoning, but it also forms the basis for what we consider higher level reasoning to be. 
 
A more drastic example would be "should I practice MMA and beat people up, or should I practice Taiji and cultivate health, peace, longevity, and unity with my fellow man?"  I'm not interested in judging, so I'll consider it a matter of personal philosophy, rather than fact, but to me the pursuit of Taiji is typically based on what I consider to be higher level reasoning, whereas pursuing MMA fighting is what I would consider to be ego-driven desire, or lower level reasoning.  To the mma fighter, it may be a virtuous path, because that fighter's reasoning could be as simple as "I want to win, get money, and women."  To me, that's lower level reasoning, but it is still personal prioritization.  A personal choice, perhaps, but an important one. 
 
To me, there is a higher and a lower, even if it is by opinion alone.  Those who just go with the flow with no intention, in my opinion, aren't actually doing that.  They're just not conscious of the psychology at work.  I don't see anything wrong with being self aware, and making conscious decisions about subconscious processes.

So for the question at hand, if I have two career path choices, between healing and teaching, or some combination of the two, I want to take the 'most virtuous path', which to me is the 'highest' or 'best' path.  Whatever adjective is used to describe the motivation behind the choice, I certainly want to make sure mine is more 'advanced', 'higher', or whatever than "get money and bitches", I think we all do.  ...and between healing and teaching, there may be subtle differences, and perhaps I might find one or the other to be more Virtuous.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Kundaolinyi

[Astral Monk]

Consider this--teaching can reach more people, but healing can reach deeper.

 

Also, if one is always teaching one might stall in learning, fail to progress, become dogmatic, or intellectualized.

 

Taking the path of the expert, however, can lead to teaching later on. But the reverse is rarely true--great teachers dont rise to be experts and leaders in the field they teach--too busy teaching!

 

8)

[blue eyed snake]

Hehehe.  I'm not going to let you put all that weight on only males.  Women do make life hard for a man to live sometimes.

 

I know, just teasing back, seeing how you write about women

[blue eyed snake]

well, i think I can agree with both viewpoints about intention

 

Virtue is leaving intention for what it is and paying attention, unwaveringly, to reality, to what is actually going on.

 

Intention, as I see it, is always an activity of the ego. When you're a healer, being intentional will get in the way of being able to heal, i think.... ( there's more to it, but i can't find words for it, yet)

I'm trying to selfheal, doing qigong, I find the less intention I have, the more I can let the process do it's thing, the quieter the mind is, the faster the healing goes. I suppose, healing others is the same only more so

 

No arguement, but really, in todays world we do need have intentions and take action to follow through with them into manifestation.

 

Life wasn't near as complex back in the old days.  (Of course, it doesn't have to be today either but for the vast majority it simply is.)

 

But for making a shoppinglist, deciding where and when i'll go camping this year, whether or not to make a visit I ( usually) use my intention

 

Thank you for all the replies.  It seems like there is an agreement amongst the majority, that the old 'give a fish or teach someone to fish' is an important philisophical application of both healing and teaching.
 

I can't help but disagree with the notion that there is no such thing as a 'higher intention' though.  The idea of categorizing intentions as higher or lower in one's mind will ultimately direct one's actions.  "I consider this to be more important than that, so I do this more often than I do that."  We often make these decisions without conscious intent.  Consciously categorizing intentions not only requires higher level reasoning, but it also forms the basis for what we consider higher level reasoning to be. 

 

yeah, right. Of course that is so, it sums up to making choices and trying to choose those things that are healthy or good or whatever

 

A more drastic example would be "should I practice MMA and beat people up, or should I practice Taiji and cultivate health, peace, longevity, and unity with my fellow man?"  I'm not interested in judging, so I'll consider it a matter of personal philosophy, rather than fact, but to me the pursuit of Taiji is typically based on what I consider to be higher level reasoning, whereas pursuing MMA fighting is what I would consider to be ego-driven desire, or lower level reasoning.  To the mma fighter, it may be a virtuous path, because that fighter's reasoning could be as simple as "I want to win, get money, and women."  To me, that's lower level reasoning, but it is still personal prioritization.  A personal choice, perhaps, but an important one. 

 

eh, I do have several friends doing karate/judo and they all tell me it's about cultivating body and mind. Not about beating someone up. Only to be used defensively outside the dojo. But I get your point

 

 

To me, there is a higher and a lower, even if it is by opinion alone.  Those who just go with the flow with no intention, in my opinion, aren't actually doing that.  They're just not conscious of the psychology at work.  I don't see anything wrong with being self aware, and making conscious decisions about subconscious processes.

agreed

 

So for the question at hand, if I have two career path choices, between healing and teaching, or some combination of the two, I want to take the 'most virtuous path', which to me is the 'highest' or 'best' path.  Whatever adjective is used to describe the motivation behind the choice, I certainly want to make sure mine is more 'advanced', 'higher', or whatever than "get money and bitches", I think we all do.  ...and between healing and teaching, there may be subtle differences, and perhaps I might find one or the other to be more Virtuous.

 

well, when you make the choice for healing and/or teaching, imo it's certainly more virtuous than getting money  and bitches. And there I find I come to the same answer, not because of vrtue but of functionality. The combination is best because more functional. But that's my opinion. And sometimes you need to grow into things to find what road you will tread

 

Consider this--teaching can reach more people, but healing can reach deeper.

Also, if one is always teaching one might stall in learning, fail to progress, become dogmatic, or intellectualized.

Taking the path of the expert, however, can lead to teaching later on. But the reverse is rarely true--great teachers dont rise to be experts and leaders in the field they teach--too busy teaching!

8)

 

beautiful insight, only teaching may stunt your own growth