Questioning a supposed "master"

[carbonbreath]

Hi guys,

 

Last year I came across a supposed Rosicrucian "master" who claimed he was a high clairvoyant. He's this really old guy who walks with a cane; diabetic. He said he saw in my aura that I needed help and so invited me to his place.. which I accepted.   He said that he could teach me and pass on his knowledge (he claims to have been taught by a Rosicrucian master since the age of 7), which would take on an indeterminate amount of time, but that I would have to do exactly everything that he tells me without question, and that was his condition. I reluctantly accepted.

 

So he had me smoke weed and offered some alcohol which I refused, then lured me into his bed as part of the "training".  I won't go into detail on what happened here, needless to say that as a guy I found what he was asking me to do to be incredibly uncomfortable, and frankly, gross.

 

He said it was a necessary part of his method in order to break down my old "self" and set me free, to get me unstuck from my ways. A red alarm immediately went off, and I got the f- out of there.

 

The thing is, during my stay, he did get a lot of things about me correctly, but I suppose that could have been the product of cold reading and knowing my birth date in advance.

 

For some reason, I found his contact information and contacted him again today, asking him for more details on what the hell happened. The other reason is that on the off chance that he is indeed legitimate, I really could use the help at this point in my life right now.

 

His answers were again vague... that he has a unique method, he sees things others can't see, blah blah blah, but if I accept to live and train with him for some time, that it could transform my life, but there are no guarantees.  He also keeps insisting that the sexual stuff is not optional.

 

I know there are tons of red flags here guys, but I wanted to know what your opinions are.  I was considering seeing him again on the condition of staying sober and no touching, but I think that this is my desperation and naïveté acting out. I'm asking if someone could slap some sense into me here.    Thanks!

Edited March 1, 2015 by carbonbreath

[idiot_stimpy]

Firstly what is your motivation and what do you really want from all of this?

 

What is your end game goal?

[Aetherous]

He's an absolute fraud...stay far away!

[carbonbreath]

Well, he says that his house is not a prison, and that I am free to leave any time I want.

 

stimpy: what I want out of this is to learn more about myself, and to resolve my karma. I feel I have hit a wall in as far as what I am able to learn on my own, and even from most other teachers. perhaps I believe that he could show me something about myself that others cannot, that will enable me to evolve spiritually.

 

my gut instinct is telling me to stay the f- away, but on the off-chance that he is legitimate, I would not want to miss this opportunity.

 

the first time I questioned his "method" he said that the sexual stuff was to replenish his energy that is exhausted in teaching me.

 

he really emphasizes that I have to just "let go", go at it 100%, do everything he says, and that I will be able to peel back my ego self and set myself back on the proper path, spiritually

Edited March 1, 2015 by carbonbreath

[idiot_stimpy]

No, there must be something deeper, what do you really want??

[Aetherous]

my gut instinct is telling me to stay the f- away, but on the off-chance that he is legitimate, I would not want to miss this opportunity.

 

It's not an opportunity...it's some sick old dude using you for his perversion. There is literally no chance that he's legitimate, because Rosicrucians don't do any of the things he did.

 

the first time I questioned his "method" he said that the sexual stuff was to replenish his energy that is exhausted in teaching me.

 

He vamps on his students, and as a Rosicrucian is incapable of generating his own energy? Like I said, absolutely a fraud.

 

he really emphasizes that I have to just "let go", go at it 100%, do everything he says, and that I will be able to peel back my ego self and set myself back on the proper path, spiritually

 

That applies to anything in life, though. For instance, if you have a job...if you just let go and go at it 100%, doing everything you have to, it will help you not be dominated by your "ego self".

 

But being vamped by some sick old pervert is NOT the way. Seek out any legitimate Rosicrucian organization instead of this guy (although, many organizations argue with each other about the others being illegitimate...doesn't matter...any of them will be better than this current situation of yours).

[Zhongyongdaoist]

As a person with practically a lifetimes experience with the Western Esoteric Tradition, which includes Rosicrucianism, I can tell you this guy is not merely a fraud in terms of his pretensions, but a vicious exploiter of vulnerable people desperate for a way out of their life situation.
 
I read your posts on depression, I know that things are very difficult for you, and worse that most people cannot even begin to understand how difficult it is, but this is absolutely not an answer to your situation.  I strongly recommend that you never see him again, that you destroy anything that connects you with him and that you turn the matter over to the "higher power" of your choice and ask that this fellow receive the justice that he truly deserves.  View it as an act of "Tough Love" if you want.
 
Aside from that I certainly wish you well and that a true path may open up for you.
 
Oh, if you don't have a higher power that you really like and want to do something really Daoist I would recommend:
 
Heavenly Lord of Supreme Oneness and Salvation from Misery

 

 

He is one of the primary Daoist Deities with which I work and he is good at what he does.

[Yasjua]

Well, dude. What he's doing is wrong. The effect of "breaking you in" sexually is that he would "penetrate" biological and psychological circuits that people outside ourselves don't usually have access to. The mix of confusion, humiliation, doubt, pleasure, shock, and pain from the experience would create vulnerable fissures in your psyche. From there, the hard programming of your unconscious systems, probably associated with the deep limbic system, would be accessible to tinker with. That said, very few, if any people, can manipulate or influence those hard-programmed and irrational patterns of thought and behavior that are rooted in your innermost psyche and get predictable results, because the patterns have to replicate and interlock with the soft-programming of your ego and your personality. The job of your personality/ego is to rationally analyze what is going on here on the surface, and to make wise decisions that will protect your brain/body from the presence of a psychological pathogen. In this case, the old man. So if you can muster some self-confidence here, and look at what has been presented to you, you will see that there is an old man asking you to suck him off (or whatever he's asking) in exchange for esoteric knowledge and transformation. This old man is not a master of anything but manipulation. Certain sinister persons have a keen eye for persons absorbed in the archetypal 'lost soul' journey. There's nothing wrong with where you're at, but you're very thirsty for something, and susceptible to grasping at offerings like the one this pervert is making. I think you are not in need of guidance from without. Give life time to unfold you at its own graceful pace. Listen to your inner guidance, and if you want to surrender to someone, do so with someone you truly trust.

[liminal_luke]

You´re gut is telling you to stay away so listen to your gut.  Let him find someone who actually wants to have sex with him, rather than trying to exploit people looking for spiritual help.  That kind of "help" you don´t need. 

 

Liminal

Edited March 1, 2015 by liminal_luke

[carbonbreath]

Thanks guys. I snapped out of it quickly. He is really a disgusting old man and I just couldn't believe that someone would just do that, or something like that could happen to me. I don't know what I was thinking. I blocked him and said he will never see me again. I feel relieved that I don't have to think about it anymore. I'm not even mad at what he did- I just feel sorry for him. I hope he doesn't do it to anyone else.

[Nungali]

Hi guys,

 

Last year I came across a supposed Rosicrucian "master" who claimed he was a high clairvoyant. He's this really old guy who walks with a cane; diabetic. He said he saw in my aura that I needed help and so invited me to his place.. which I accepted.   He said that he could teach me and pass on his knowledge (he claims to have been taught by a Rosicrucian master since the age of 7), which would take on an indeterminate amount of time, but that I would have to do exactly everything that he tells me without question, and that was his condition. I reluctantly accepted.

 

So he had me smoke weed and offered some alcohol which I refused, then lured me into his bed as part of the "training".  I won't go into detail on what happened here, needless to say that as a guy I found what he was asking me to do to be incredibly uncomfortable, and frankly, gross.

 

He said it was a necessary part of his method in order to break down my old "self" and set me free, to get me unstuck from my ways. A red alarm immediately went off, and I got the f- out of there.

 

The thing is, during my stay, he did get a lot of things about me correctly, but I suppose that could have been the product of cold reading and knowing my birth date in advance.

 

For some reason, I found his contact information and contacted him again today, asking him for more details on what the hell happened. The other reason is that on the off chance that he is indeed legitimate, I really could use the help at this point in my life right now.

 

His answers were again vague... that he has a unique method, he sees things others can't see, blah blah blah, but if I accept to live and train with him for some time, that it could transform my life, but there are no guarantees.  He also keeps insisting that the sexual stuff is not optional.

 

I know there are tons of red flags here guys, but I wanted to know what your opinions are.  I was considering seeing him again on the condition of staying sober and no touching, but I think that this is my desperation and naïveté acting out. I'm asking if someone could slap some sense into me here.    Thanks!

 

I haven't read the thread just your opening post 

 

Okay ... first 

 

 

 

 

Next ... chin up. You might be able to get some instruction here ... seriously, some people here can give you good advise, 'Rosicrucian' or otherwise.  You can start practices yourself first, you dont have to start under the direct  dictatorship of  a 'Master'. Also, a bit of ' preliminary practices'  can help one to discern who has any level of mastership ( well, more so than none ) . 

 

You dont need to see him again to enter a path of clarity, healing, discernment ... and Rosicrucianism, if that is what you want.

 

You might get some silly innuendo and 'Benny Hill' type sexual humour  here,  thats probably a bit 'lighter' than any  gross old dude with a cane stuff. 

 

[  Actually, I know of a similar story, the guy in question was 'Head of a Magical Order'  (one he developed) ... it was cited in a book about the occult in Australia ( published in the 80s )  as 'The oldest and most respected magical order in Australia'.  . I had a  new GF  at the time in that group .... they were promising to make her the Priestess if she ....  let's say 'accomplished' certain things.  I went along to some of their 'classes' for a while.  Nothing one couldnt get from books, but the humour and circus was invaluable entertainment .   She finally started to believe me about my observations of them  and that warning voice in her head when his 'Rosicrucian' ritual was revealed to involve a cross, a dungeon, some chains and a diet of pet food ... for him that is .    Ohhhh ... he stories from that  group !

 

I encountered others that were nothing like that, and quiet good IMO. ]

 

Just ask some questions here about he path you want to take and where you want to go.

 

Any good system should be about balance, and building a firm foundation, so you can rise higher with stability to your fuller potentials , seek out your innate genius  and  move towards understanding, fulfilment and joy. 

 

Thats my '2 bobs worth' .

 

( Welcome to TDB by the way. )

[Nungali]

---Well, one of the **main ideas in Rosicrucianism is that you need to be absolutely celibate in this life and, after you leave this life, you are on a path to marrying a sort of Angel. At that point, as long as you are faithful to one another, you will live forever.

***Note: the essenes also emphasized celibacy (thought, word and deed).

 

My guess is that if he were indeed a Rosicrucian, he'd do what his forbears would do: keep the absolute celibacy thing as central.

 

Edit:

http://www.rosecircle.org/cms/files/public/papers/Rose%20Circle%20-%20Rosicrucians,%20True%20or%20False.pdf

 

**I recall reading this somewhere, but I can't fnd the resource any more. I remember that it was about how Rosicrucian ideas had spread across Europe and had been corroborated by people who had visionary experiences (like Swedenborg).

 

--Regardless, the things you describe are wholly outside the range of proper practice.

 

 

The Rosicrucian subject has been discussed in some threads here  on the forum. 

[Nungali]

Just a technical ... or logical ... point on energy rejuvenation.  

 

Why would any magician, occultist, 'Rosicrucian' , etc. want to draw  energy from another person, when the source of energy is pure and limitless  ?

 

Anyone that wants to do that seems to get 'off' more on the 'power trip'  that is 'power over' ... usually another and not their  own 'lower nature'.

 

In some cases some mistake that with sex.  A few years back I started a great sexual relationship, the energy power and 'rejuvenation'  was apparent in both of us  (  even though she was much younger ) , it happened to her too, as we were both opened to a source of energy that flowed through both of us.  If it flows from one to another, there is always a circuit of back and forth.

 

Now some might see this as a justification for  ' sexual energy exchange'   but I never buy that with sex ( pun intended)  ,  its for both parties involved ... never paid for it and never considered it payment in kind for anything as I believe 'they' enjoy it as much as I do

 

With magic, the occult and  ...actually ... teaching anything or in any position where some sort of hierarchy is involved, it;s right out of the picture.

 

It can cause enough trouble when it enters the situation with  comfortable or enthusiastic choice .

 

Practices that look at our aversions and enact them are not  beginners  practices. 

 

But even beginners practices might make your relationships ( externally and internally )  better. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Nungali

[C T]

Why would any magician, occultist, 'Rosicrucian' , etc. want to draw  energy from another person, when the source of energy is pure and limitless  ?

 

Im thinking its for the precise reason that the source of energy is flawlessly pure that She becomes the subject of desire - if it was tainted in any way, i dont think anyone in their right mind would think of craving even a smidgen of it... lol

 

But 'flawlessly pure' is merely a projection of the mind, and thats where duality, that which begets cravings, take root. So this guy (master or whatever) imagines the underlying purity of sex with vulnerable people and craves that. Its a sort of depraved attitude, although the essence behind the desire is a positive one. Due to lack of insight into reality, he takes whats fundamentally good, and essentially pure, and pervert that into something debasing for his own gratification. In Buddhism this is a prime example of ignorance. 

[thelerner]

To me, the big detail is fraud or not, he's bad news and such study would probably only bare rotten fruit.  Even if he was levitating around, you can't let that over come the manipulation and tinge of perverted nastiness. 

[mYTHmAKER]

This old man is not a master of anything but manipulation.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

He should be reported to the authorities

There are others he has deceived

Google his name and see what comes up

[liminal_luke]

Carbonbreath,

 

You´ve received a chorus of replies (mine among them) urging you to stay away.  Sounds like you´re taking the advice to heart.  I´m very glad.

 

Still, as a man-loving fellow on the verge of my old gay years, I´d like to clarify my opinión a bit so as not to inadvertently perpetuate the destructive "dirty old man" stereotype. 

 

There´s nothing wrong with being old.

There´s nothing wrong with being old and gay.

There´s nothing wrong with being fat, old, and gay.

There´s nothing wrong with being fat, sick, old, and gay.

There´s not even anything wrong with being a fat, old, sick, gay guy who finds handsome much younger men, perhaps like yourself, sexually desirable.

 

 There´s everything wrong when anyone tries to parlay alledged knowledge or abilities into sexual favors.

 

Liminal 

Edited March 1, 2015 by liminal_luke

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

A true Rosicrucian "Master" would be teaching you about Alchemy, and the process would take a bit upward of 50 days, in roughly 7 intervals - no less than 350 days.


I have yet to experiment with the alchemical process of separating and putrifying sea salt and Spring morning dew. BUT THAT IS THE TRUE ROSICRUCIAN PRACTICE.

The elixer of life is supposed to bestow certain eccentricities upon the mind, but this sounds like a run of the mill pervert with an inkling of esoteric organizations.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan

[Aaron]

This guy isn't a master, he's a pervert. Stay away from him. Master's don't normally coerce people into having sex with them, by giving them drugs and alcohol. I would actually report him to the police, because there is a good chance he may actually have used these tactics to rape someone in the past. 

 

Let me elaborate, as a gay man, I don't think he's a pervert for being gay, but because he's trying to coerce men into having sex with him using drugs and alcohol. the other important thing to remember is that he is trying to use power and authority to get what he wants. It's like the man who sends away for a mail order bride and then demands sex or he'll send them back. That's what sets off warning signals like crazy. 

Edited March 2, 2015 by Aaron

[Lth]

yeah sounds more like a crowley practice not rosicrucian. he would be making you eat your own feces probably soon, and that is not fun

Edited March 2, 2015 by Lth

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

hell, most people claiming to be of the Rosicrucian sect arent even rosicrucians anyways...

What was reported and publicized on them is false.  Their very name is even obscured.

They are about the crucible with which they perform alchemy, not the cross.

[Nungali]

Brethren of the 'Rose & Cross'    are not   'about' the cross ?   

[Rara]

Hi guys,

 

Last year I came across a supposed Rosicrucian "master" who claimed he was a high clairvoyant. He's this really old guy who walks with a cane; diabetic. He said he saw in my aura that I needed help and so invited me to his place.. which I accepted. He said that he could teach me and pass on his knowledge (he claims to have been taught by a Rosicrucian master since the age of 7), which would take on an indeterminate amount of time, but that I would have to do exactly everything that he tells me without question, and that was his condition. I reluctantly accepted.

 

So he had me smoke weed and offered some alcohol which I refused, then lured me into his bed as part of the "training". I won't go into detail on what happened here, needless to say that as a guy I found what he was asking me to do to be incredibly uncomfortable, and frankly, gross.

 

He said it was a necessary part of his method in order to break down my old "self" and set me free, to get me unstuck from my ways. A red alarm immediately went off, and I got the f- out of there.

 

The thing is, during my stay, he did get a lot of things about me correctly, but I suppose that could have been the product of cold reading and knowing my birth date in advance.

 

For some reason, I found his contact information and contacted him again today, asking him for more details on what the hell happened. The other reason is that on the off chance that he is indeed legitimate, I really could use the help at this point in my life right now.

 

His answers were again vague... that he has a unique method, he sees things others can't see, blah blah blah, but if I accept to live and train with him for some time, that it could transform my life, but there are no guarantees. He also keeps insisting that the sexual stuff is not optional.

 

I know there are tons of red flags here guys, but I wanted to know what your opinions are. I was considering seeing him again on the condition of staying sober and no touching, but I think that this is my desperation and naïveté acting out. I'm asking if someone could slap some sense into me here. Thanks!

Dude, get the hell out of there and delete his number.

[GrandmasterP]

@Carbonbreath...

 

Run away fast!

Edited March 3, 2015 by GrandmasterP

[Lth]

for me i would take it further and see how this guy operate what he would do and say if i ask him certain questions though. but thise things just doesnt happen to me. never mind finding a teacher that can teach but finding a pervert teacher lol. what are the odds