Xing gong (' 性功')

[exorcist_1699]

 

Xing gong (' 性功') , efforts and ways to attaining our true spiritual nature  , is a unique Taoist alchemical term that people  seldom find  it in other disciplines or religions .Because it involves things like no-mind and primordial qi , it always  gives people  an impression of  being unreal , something too abstract  to grasp. This is  especially true when Xing gong is compared with  Ming gong ('命功')  ,  ways that teach  us  those physical steps , styles and postures of   how  to practice  ,  how to cure disease..etc.   To many  people, Xing gong is something beyond their reach ,  maybe even something  useless.

 

 

In fact,  Taoist Xing gong,   to me ,  has the following implications :

 

1) While Ming gong , in alchemical context,  is  forbidden to elaborate   , talking about Taoist  Xing gong  is said to be   harmless even if we go  into  detail ; there is   no worry  of  any  misfortune or spell cast on us from the Heaven.

 

2) Different from  Ming gong's reliance  on what our sifu or teacher told us   beforehand , Xing gong requests us to understand those things  we experience  at varied stages of our practice on our own, as an old saying tells us:

 

"性由自悟, 命假師傳" 

 

( " While Xing gong is  self-enlightened, Ming gong ,especially those alchemy related, likely come from your sifu." )

 

 

3) The success of Xing gong  is always said to be  a natural outcome of the  accumulation  of   our jing and qi , no more should be added. Taoist alchemy practitioners therefore can put  less effort , or no effort ,   into the final stage of  attaining Shen as what the 《 Huang Ting Jing》has told  them  : '仙人道士非有神,  積精累氣以成真' 

 

( ' The immortals are people of no  divinity ,the secret of their accomplishment  is just a  result of having  enough jing and qi  accumulated ' ) 

 

 

On the other hand,  without the help from  jing and qi, the Buddhist followers likely find  themselves situated in a less favorable  situation for  achieving what they expect ,  regardless  of the fact that their masters  speak of spirit-related stuff in  ways usually better than the Taoists' .

 

 

 

4) There is , in fact , an argument about  whether we should explore  Xing gong first  , or  we should dive into Ming gong first . Although  Xing gong is frightening and most people avoid entering it ,there are  unexpected rewards of doing it  first   :

 

 

- Whenever we get breakthrough in Xing gong , we leap forward much faster  than people who follow the do-Ming gong-first way.  It , therefore , can be  viewed as some kind of shortcut for our cultivation.

 

- The deeper we understand  the Xing aspect of our practice  , the  less we will be liable to committing mistakes in Ming gong ( ie,  there will be less physical troubles  arising )  or the  stronger we will become  in evading those physical or spiritual pitfalls.

 

 

-( This one likely can only be understood by the TCM students) 

 

Generally speaking, when people  get a cold, they are not suggested to drink  Ginseng  soup because if they  nourish  their sick bodies at that moment  , they will also enhance the external evils ,pushing them  deep inside , and aggravate their illness ; it is only after having  the cold/disease ousted from their bodies , should they start drinking nutritious things  . 

 

Similarly , without  having our Xing  uplifted first, the more jing and qi we  accumulate , the worse physical and spiritual troubles we will come across..

Edited March 2, 2015 by exorcist_1699

[Taoist Texts]

   Ming gong ('命功')  ,  ways that teach  us  those physical steps , styles and postures of   how  to practice  

 

Is that what minggong is? Really;)?

[exorcist_1699]

Is that what minggong is? Really;)?

 

Yeah , Ming gong =minggong;

 

To any serious Taoist practitioner, Xing gong is something you can't escape from .  To evade doing it , you just postpone a crucial  issue that you have to deal with , which may not be advantageous  to your cultivation .

 

For example, regarding  nocturnal leakage of jing , a  troublesome issue that  many guys are annoyed :  To people who are good at  Xing gong, it is something easy to solve  . However, to people who are not good at it , then they  will incline to solve it by those physical ways : not to read pornographic stuff  ,better wearing loose clothing ,   drink as little wine as possible...etc ., which can be somewhat  effective , but  unlikely be radical .

Edited March 3, 2015 by exorcist_1699

[opendao]

 

4) There is , in fact , an argument about  whether we should explore  Xing gong first  , or  we should dive into Ming gong first . Although  Xing gong is frightening and most people avoid entering it ,there are  unexpected rewards of doing it  first   :

 

Why Xing Gong is "frightening and most people avoid entering it"? What are you speaking about? Dazuo? Million are sitting with no fear 

 

 

- Whenever we get breakthrough in Xing gong , we leap forward much faster  than people who follow the do-Ming gong-first way.  It , therefore , can be  viewed as some kind of shortcut for our cultivation.

 

This way is much slower then ancient way with Ming Gong first, because it's hard to make the breakthrough you write about... But it is safer, you're right here.

 

From another side, Xing Gong first without Ming gong can lead to Yin Shen cultivation very easily...

 

Then Ming becomes an obstacle, and people start to think how to stop its influence. Many monks has described that in details... But it's not a way to Yang Shen, it's not a correct Xing Gong. I think it's important to understand it somehow before making any decisions about practice.

 

To any serious Taoist practitioner, Xing gong is something you can't escape from .  To evade doing it , you just postpone a critical issue that you have to deal with , which may not be advantageous  to your cultivation .

 

That's why 性命雙修, dual cultivation of Xing and Ming, is needed from the beginning of the practice. Everything else is just an attempt to "fly with one wing".

[松永道]

性命双修！Xing and Ming must be cultivated together. Which to do when depends on the person.

 

@exorcist, I like the last analogy and have thought the same way. Added strength to a crooked heart is a recipe for disaster. As Confucius said, 欲修其身先正其心 "[if you] wish to cultivate the body first upright the heart".

Edited March 3, 2015 by 松永道

[exorcist_1699]

 

 

 

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That's why 性命雙修, dual cultivation of Xing and Ming, is needed from the beginning of the practice. Everything else is just an attempt to "fly with one wing".

 

 

Since both opendao and 松永道 mentioned about the dual cultivation issue, I would like to talk about it first.

 

The general principle is that Taoists should cultivate both Xing gong and Ming gong , but  it doesn't necessarily imply that  we have to do them simultaneously  without the need to  consider   the sequence of them .

 

For example ,  a guy  in his sixties who  can't sit there straight  for over 15  minutes without falling into some kind of drowsing   , or he can't have a hard-on even thinking of women's bodies or lingerie,  then in that case likely we  should suggest him to do  Ming gong with some body movements first. It is only after his situation improved , should we advise him to do some Xing gong. The reason is simple ,  it is  useless , for example, to ask an  always  sleepy mind to explore the Xing gong.

 

 

On the other hand, a young guy in his early 20s who always has strong  sex drive that  he can't suppress it by playing lot of sports or taking icy  baths, and he is a quite quiet  and smart guy, then likely we will suggest him to  do Xing gong more intensively  , with Ming gong as supplementary .

Edited March 3, 2015 by exorcist_1699

[NotVoid]

What are some examples of xing gong?

 

P.S. The reason I ask is because I think that a person may well get some different answers depending on which tradition or which teacher you are asking. It is human nature to want to place things in neat little boxes, and say this is this, and that is that, but in areas such as 'taoism' don't be surprised at all that there can be quite different views and practices from different traditions. This has been my experience anyway. When we say ming practice is this, or xing practice is that, I think it is important to qualify this with what specific tradition or which specific teacher said it. Just my point of view.

Edited March 4, 2015 by NotVoid

[Walker]

There is also a teaching in the Quanzhen tradition in which xing and ming cultivation are one and the same practice. As it was explained to me, this teaching is true 性命双修, because it triggers both processes at once, and they unfold naturally without the interference of the human mind being necessary... wuwei. This idea is very different from what I generally see being discussed by Daoism enthusiasts, both here and elsewhere. It is also very clearly not believed to be appropriate for "mass consumption," and is rather reserved for those with great natural affinity, "root" (根基、善根、慧根, etc), and virtue. To this date I have never seen more than hints of its existence creep into the writings. Though, truth be told, I am not very well-read.

 

I am curious if any of you fellows have come across such teachings.

[opendao]

There is also a teaching in the Quanzhen tradition in which xing and ming cultivation are one and the same practice.

 

This is possible in Quanzhen Dao. 

 

As it was explained to me, this teaching is true 性命双修, because it triggers both processes at once, and they unfold naturally without the interference of the human mind being necessary... wuwei.

 

a bit simplistic, but I can imagine what they refer to... Did they really used wuwei term in that context or it's your understanding?

 

This idea is very different from what I generally see being discussed by Daoism enthusiasts, both here and elsewhere.

 

because it's a Ming method in its core, those who know are rare and prefer not to talk

 

It is also very clearly not believed to be appropriate for "mass consumption," and is rather reserved for those with great natural affinity, "root" (根基、善根、慧根, etc), and virtue. 

 

yes, because for people without all that, other practices are also needed.

Funny thing, but these other practices are also referred as "Xing and Ming together" in some Quanzhen Dao lineages... That's why I think it's useless to discuss "Ming first, Xing first" without mentioning which school we're talking about. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by opendao

[Daeluin]

because it's a Ming method in its core, those who know are rare and prefer not to talk

 

Is the secrecy about Ming methods due to Ming being related to destiny? I imagine if I teach someone Ming methods and they are able to overcome certain challenges placed by destiny, they would have not really learned the lesson on their own, and could cause trouble both for themselves and for the teacher.

 

There is also a teaching in the Quanzhen tradition in which xing and ming cultivation are one and the same practice. As it was explained to me, this teaching is true 性命双修, because it triggers both processes at once, and they unfold naturally without the interference of the human mind being necessary... wuwei. This idea is very different from what I generally see being discussed by Daoism enthusiasts, both here and elsewhere. It is also very clearly not believed to be appropriate for "mass consumption," and is rather reserved for those with great natural affinity, "root" (根基、善根、慧根, etc), and virtue. To this date I have never seen more than hints of its existence creep into the writings. Though, truth be told, I am not very well-read.

 

I am curious if any of you fellows have come across such teachings.

 

This appears to be the approach where I train. We are taught the Secret of the Golden Flower concept of turning the light of the mind around, to focus inward at the lower dan tien. The SotGF uses this method so as to gradually integrate Xing with Ming, simply waiting for the Ming to develop a foundation and as it does, the Xing simultaneously integrates with it. Over time the harmonization and unification of the three dan tiens is complete.

 

In addition we augment this practice with internal martial arts / qi gong. This allows us to arouse and move and reshape the Ming as we focus inward with the Xing, and both are refined and tempered simultaneously.

 

We are simply taught basic principles - we do not have our bodies adjusted and micromanaged. We do not have our imbalances pointed out. That is part of our own challenge to overcome our destiny - it should not rest upon another's shoulders. We are given principles and forms and if we do the work sincerely our bodies will provide the answers to deeper balance.

 

In this way I believe no secrets are transmitted to those who should not receive them. The door is open, but any secrets are unlocked from one's own work and sincerity. If one focuses on getting answers from an external source, what good are they? When one focuses within, the answers appear as a reward of one's sincerity, and do not require mental understanding.

 

This balanced approach is all one needs. Ming work, as I understand it, is simply related to one's integration into one's body. All it takes is deepening one's natural body-mind connection by getting out of the thinking mind and playing in the woods as our ancestors might have. Explore the body, use the body in different ways, navigating by feeling and being. Just set sincerity upon being whole in body and mind until you are. In order to rise above the challenges, one will naturally be called to increase the power of their spirit. Simple.

[Daeluin]

It is also very clearly not believed to be appropriate for "mass consumption," and is rather reserved for those with great natural affinity, "root" (根基、善根、慧根, etc), and virtue.

 

Even though the door is open, it would appear very few are able to really understand the depth of potential of what is being taught. Perhaps most lack the natural affinity and eventually move on, or simply don't progress very far, but I believe the school allows them to find the healing and balancing for the level they are at. Over time those with a natural affinity show up on their own.

[Taoist Texts]

This appears to be the approach where I train. We are taught the Secret of the Golden Flower concept of turning the light of the mind around, to focus inward at the lower dan tien.  

 

How long you have been doing that so far?

[Walker]

a bit simplistic, but I can imagine what they refer to... Did they really used wuwei term in that context or it's your understanding?

 

Probably more my interpretation. In the practice, one follows an excedingly simple instruction, and continues to follow it, though not with extreme rigidity (ie, 似守非守，不要死守). Whatever changes may arise, one does not manage or interfere, even if the changes seem just like something described in this or that alchemy text.

 

because it's a Ming method in its core, those who know are rare and prefer not to talk

 

This statement makes sense in lieu of what I was told. Although it was explained to me as xingmingshuangxiu, in fact the Daoist at other times referred to its use as minggong and said that xing could be cultivated generally, without using this practice; not so for ming, though.

 

Yes, initiates are rare.

 

This appears to be the approach where I train. We are taught the Secret of the Golden Flower concept of turning the light of the mind around, to focus inward at the lower dan tien.

 

Whatever similarities there might be and without speculating as to what your practice might or might not result in, what I am describing is not this.

[Daeluin]

Whatever similarities there might be and without speculating as to what your practice might or might not result in, what I am describing is not this.

 

I hear you. Not "my" practice, just "a" practice please.

 

Probably more my interpretation. In the practice, one follows an excedingly simple instruction, and continues to follow it, though not with extreme rigidity (ie, 似守非守，不要死守). Whatever changes may arise, one does not manage or interfere, even if the changes seem just like something described in this or that alchemy text.

 

This is what the practice I speak of teaches. Different techniques may be used at different times, all guiding back to a heart that never changes. That heart is the core, but it takes time for one to reach it through all the layers. As one gets closer it becomes clear the guidance never strays from this simple core practice, even as it may manifest differently at the surface layers as the times change. Experiences are not attached to - one remains rooted in one's center throughout.

 

Words and details are merely layers obscuring the heart.

Clearly these layers differ from what you describe.

And yet the essence and heart?

When it comes to this, perhaps all practices that reach the dao are one at the heart.

 

I hope you find what you are looking for, in whatever shape it appears in at the surface.

 

How long you have been doing that so far?

 

I do my best to stay objective - questions like this quickly lead into subjective realms which often are of no benefit to the discussion.

 

I share not to emphasize specific methods, but to share the principles at the heart of these methods.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Daeluin

[opendao]

Probably more my interpretation. In the practice, one follows an excedingly simple instruction, and continues to follow it, though not with extreme rigidity (ie, 似守非守，不要死守). Whatever changes may arise, one does not manage or interfere, even if the changes seem just like something described in this or that alchemy text.

 

Thanks. I asked because with wuwei idea in mind, in my opinion, it will be very hard to attain the results in such a practice. This is a case where ideas, concepts and words are really important. The main issue is where to be active and where to follow the changes...

 

This statement makes sense in lieu of what I was told. Although it was explained to me as xingmingshuangxiu, in fact the Daoist at other times referred to its use as minggong and said that xing could be cultivated generally, without using this practice; not so for ming, though.

 

Right. And in Quanzhen Dao many concepts are "loose", its texts and instructions are poetry more then technical descriptions. I love it though.

[exorcist_1699]

What are some examples of xing gong?

 

P.S. The reason I ask is because I think that a person may well get some different answers depending on which tradition or which teacher you are asking. It is human nature to want to place things in neat little boxes, and say this is this, and that is that, but in areas such as 'taoism' don't be surprised at all that there can be quite different views and practices from different traditions. This has been my experience anyway. When we say ming practice is this, or xing practice is that, I think it is important to qualify this with what specific tradition or which specific teacher said it. Just my point of view.

 

 

We know that both Taoism and Buddhism  talk about emptied mind or no mind, but how Taoist  Xing gong differentiates from the Buddhist and others' ? Doing   meditation doesn't necessarily  mean  you are practicing  Xing gong ;  from the point of view of Taoist  alchemy , some kind of meditation that only gives people  a peaceful mind or a feeling of  unifying themselves   with the universe..etc . , strictly speaking , can't be classified as Xing gong.

 

Of course, such kind of mental preparation , for example , to settle a mind and make it calm , is always useful  , but it is things too common in all spiritual practices that  doesn't  tell  the uniqueness of Taoism .

 

I have to say that to initialize high quality  qi , not ordinary one ( for  you can  use Taiji  or other medical qigong measures to initialize it  ) ,  is the reason why we need Xing gong.

 

 

Another one of Taoist Xing gong's  characteristics is its  emphasis on  the importance of  maintaining a 'crystallized '  state of Oneness as some kind of transition ; as  a  famous saying  tells us:  " 守得一, 萬事畢 "   (' Once  Oneness is attained  ,  all sufferings leave us  no trace ')

 

 

To condense   your mind into a state of Oneness and sustain it   for a period of  time  is  not easy ,you may experience  a series of  steps  / periods  as follows :

 

 

First ,  paying attention to your  breathing/dantian/somewhere/nowhere =>

 

then, forgetting /ignoring/ emptying such an attention so as to => 

 

Condensing it  into a state of Oneness => 

 

Sustaining this state of Oneness by further forgetting/ignoring/emptying it => 

 

...until a mindless Mind comes upon you ...

 

 

 

Of course,  a mindless Mind can't  be a mind,  or more precisely speaking , can't be a human mind ; and ,  so immense and powerful it is, can't  originate from our brain  ,   but something from  the outside  , from the Cosmos which Taoists always  call it :   ' 天心'  ( the ' Cosmos Mind' )

Edited March 10, 2015 by exorcist_1699